85 FJ1100 refurbishment/custom

[movenon]

I have to ask...do builds like this think about replacing guide seals? The rest of the engine could give OK comp and leakdown #'s but after 30 years you know those small, rubber pieces called guide seals are toast. Unless....like CB750 and Z900 guys.....soaking them in wintergreen brings them to the fountain of youth. I am just curious.

I think my valve stem seals are crap and need to be replaced. That's on the docket after the next WCR. I wouldn't even think about "refreshing" them. To much work to get the head off to get to the seals, buy new ones and be careful installing them. Here is part of a thread showing the seals and installing them.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7854.165 interesting to look at anyhow. Not looking forward to doing the job because like all projects
when you tear into the project there will be other things to check/replace etc......
George

[Pat Conlon]

George, IIRC someone mentioned replacing their valve seals without removing the head.
I remember this because they reminded me of an old racers trick of keeping the valves seated when you remove the springs (necessary to get the new seals over the valve stems).
Rotate the crank so the piston is down to BDC, now thru the spark plug hole, feed in some soft nylon line, then rotate the crank so the piston rises up to near TDC.
The piston squeezes the nylon line up against the valves, holding them seated in place so you can remove the springs.

Pretty damn clever if you ask me.

[movenon]

I read of this before but my question is what tool do you use to compress the springs and get the keepers off with the head on ? I have located a valve spring compressor that will work with the recessed buckets and seals and plan on buying one for the job then sell it when I am done. I have read about the rope trick and have some reservations about it based on my past experience in tearing down auto heads. I made an adapter for a recessed bucket to do a diesel VW head once and it worked but I promised myself to get the correct tool next time. I did a little digging on e bay and discovered a tool that would work and wasn't all that expensive.  I can sell it to someone else after I am done. Think of it as rent.

In my opinion it smokes on start up notably more when it is left over night on the center stand.  On the side stand it seems to be less. After warmed up it seems good. Just something to do in the future. I had planned on looking into it this winter but other things have taken priority.

Have a good day this Xmas eve to you and yours and remember that truck stops are open all night tonight so you can finish up your shopping  ...
Cheers George

[FeralRdr]

I replaced mine with the head on and the only real pain we ran into was the exhaust valve stems, but that was due to the engine being in the bike and the frame being in the way of the tool.  Fortunately, we eventually figured a way around that.

To keep the valves closed, we put the cylinder (of the valves we were working on at the time) at TDC and used compressed air to keep the valve's shut. 

To compress the valve springs we fabricated our own tool.  I unfortunately don't have any picts of the tool handy, but if your interested, I'll try to get some up within the next week.  I'll try to give a brief description of how we fabricated it:

We took a metal tube that is roughly 25mm in diameter (diameter of the valve bucket), and cut it to a length of about 3+ inches (7-8 cm's).
We then tack welded a washer (roughly 24 -25mm outer diameter and with an inner hole big enough to fit around the valve stem and the retainer c-clips) to one end of it (becomes the bottom of the tool) thus forming a cylinder.
We then used some 1/4 inch square tubing to make a T-handle and welded that to the opposite end of the tube.

At this point we had something that looked like a cylinder with a small whole in the bottom wall and a T handle affixed to the top.

Next, we cut out a section of the the cylinder's side wall so that we could not only see the valve stem and retaining clips when the valve springs were compressed, but also to allow us to get a pair of needle nose pliers inside the cylinder tube (inserting/removing the c-clips).
Lastly we used a wheel grinder to grind down and polish out any burrs or rough edges along the bottom edges and sides of the cylinder tube.

Here's a rough artistic interpretation to give you an idea:



Just so that you know, this tool works best when you have someone to help you (one person to compress the spring, and the other removes/installs the c-clips).  Using this tool, we were able to get the intake valve stem seals replaced within about 45 minutes.  As mentioned above, where we ran into a problem was the exhaust side of the engine.  There is plenty of room and easy access for the tool to be used easily on the intake valve stems, but due to the engine being in the frame, the cylinder head was inclined forward enough to make using the tool all but impossible with the frame being in the way.  We did have enough room to get the tool in, but were not able to get enough leverage behind the tool to compress the spring.  Our solution was to zip tie a breaker bar across the top of the frame and use it as a fulcrum for another breaker bar that was used as a lever for the tool.  This did allow us to get the exhaust side done, but it did add about another hour and a half (2+ hours more) to do the exhaust side.  The issue we ran into here was keeping the tool and lever mechanism in alignment.  Though not extremely difficult, it was a bit of a pain at times.  We did find that zip tying both the tool to the leverage bar, and the leverage bar to the fulcrum bar, did help quite a lot.  However, we still spent a lot of energy keeping everything in alignment.

[Joe Sull]

I'm impressed! You guy's are pretty savvy. I will admit that if JMR hadn't mentioned it, I would never have given it a thought till my bike started burning oil. I SHOULD do this maintenance while the engine is out of the bike but I can not because of money. It's going to have to wait for me till next year.

Al thought I'm extremely interested in what you people have to say on this subject, I think the topic will get lost in my humble little refurbishing thread. It deserves it's own. I hope you will make a searchable topic for it and I will be hanging on every word.
Joe

[movenon]

I replaced mine with the head on and the only real pain we ran into was the exhaust valve stems, but that was due to the engine being in the bike and the frame being in the way of the tool.  Fortunately, we eventually figured a way around that.

To keep the valves closed, we put the cylinder (of the valves we were working on at the time) at TDC and used compressed air to keep the valve's shut. 

To compress the valve springs we fabricated our own tool.  I unfortunately don't have any picts of the tool handy, but if your interested, I'll try to get some up within the next week.  I'll try to give a brief description of how we fabricated it:

We took a metal tube that is roughly 25mm in diameter (diameter of the valve bucket), and cut it to a length of about 3+ inches (7-8 cm's).
We then tack welded a washer (roughly 24 -25mm outer diameter and with an inner hole big enough to fit around the valve stem and the retainer c-clips) to one end of it (becomes the bottom of the tool) thus forming a cylinder.
We then used some 1/4 inch square tubing to make a T-handle and welded that to the opposite end of the tube.

At this point we had something that looked like a cylinder with a small whole in the bottom wall and a T handle affixed to the top.

Next, we cut out a section of the the cylinder's side wall so that we could not only see the valve stem and retaining clips when the valve springs were compressed, but also to allow us to get a pair of needle nose pliers inside the cylinder tube (inserting/removing the c-clips).
Lastly we used a wheel grinder to grind down and polish out any burrs or rough edges along the bottom edges and sides of the cylinder tube.

Here's a rough artistic interpretation to give you an idea:



Just so that you know, this tool works best when you have someone to help you (one person to compress the spring, and the other removes/installs the c-clips).  Using this tool, we were able to get the intake valve stem seals replaced within about 45 minutes.  As mentioned above, where we ran into a problem was the exhaust side of the engine.  There is plenty of room and easy access for the tool to be used easily on the intake valve stems, but due to the engine being in the frame, the cylinder head was inclined forward enough to make using the tool all but impossible with the frame being in the way.  We did have enough room to get the tool in, but were not able to get enough leverage behind the tool to compress the spring.  Our solution was to zip tie a breaker bar across the top of the frame and use it as a fulcrum for another breaker bar that was used as a lever for the tool.  This did allow us to get the exhaust side done, but it did add about another hour and a half (2+ hours more) to do the exhaust side.  The issue we ran into here was keeping the tool and lever mechanism in alignment.  Though not extremely difficult, it was a bit of a pain at times.  We did find that zip tying both the tool to the leverage bar, and the leverage bar to the fulcrum bar, did help quite a lot.  However, we still spent a lot of energy keeping everything in alignment.

Thank you! Yes if you have time next week please post or PM me with a picture or two. Last week I built a shock spring compressor which works fine for home use. Good idea on starting a "tool" thread. TNX have a good Xmas.
George

[FeralRdr]

Thank you! Yes if you have time next week please post or PM me with a picture or two. Last week I built a shock spring compressor which works fine for home use. Good idea on starting a "tool" thread. TNX have a good Xmas.
George

Will do George.  My buddy still has the tool and has used it several times when doing work on the heads of other machines.  I'll make a note to stop by and take a picture of it.

[Joe Sull]

4 days work, about 10 hours of sanding on these not including stripping
the clear coat. They are actually quite rough from the factory.



I've seen pics of the guy that have done this on there bike here.

I dry sanded 100 220 and then wet sanded 400 then 600. There ready for polishing.
The factory polished areas were still rough. One brush of the sand paper reveals deep
scratches and unevenness. The rest of the surfaces look just like the rims.



I filed the casting lines and worked the areas around the anti- dive blocks best I could.
I won't break those seals now.

[craigo]

Try one of these. Makes life so much easier. Use Rouge Buffing Polishing Compound on the polish wheel after the brown pad to get the old clear coat off.



CraigO

[rktmanfj]

Try one of these. Makes life so much easier. Use Rouge Buffing Polishing Compound on the polish wheel after the brown pad to get the old clear coat off.

I just recently got one just like that.   

[Joe Sull]

I'll be getting some of the black compound stick, if that's what your talking about. I got the red stuff but I'll use that after the black. That's one hell of a bench grinder. I got a 1/3 hp ace hardware piece of...well, it isn't that good. My buzz grinder has more power and that's what I'll probably rig up with a buffing pad. I got my wheels to do also.

What did you mean by "brown pad"?

[Pat Conlon]

Bwwwhaaaahaaaahaaaa......my virus is spreading....

[movenon]

Looking good Craig    Headers next ? 
George

[craigo]

What did you mean by "brown pad"?

I used red, black, and white rouge.

The brown pad is like a cellious green pad, only not as abrasive and mounts of the bench grinder. Great for stripping off all the crude buildup and clear coat. Makes taking the forks down to bare metal a lot easier.



And yes Pat, your bike has inspired this work. However, as far as the headers,,,, I don't think so. I'm afraid of snapping a bolt or some such thing. You know the old saying about leaving laying shit lie..

CraigO

[movenon]

Craig, on the headers I was afraid of snapping a stud off also but I got an allen wrench and tugged on one of the retaining nut vowing not to force it and found out they were extremely easy to undo. Kind of a judgment call.  Any how they polish up easier than you think.  Keeping them polished is another problem. I haven't figured out that one yet  .

George