FJ1346 from ashes to... Well, we'll see...

[movenon]

Nice write up and photo's Mike.  I have been trying to justify one of those vibrating sanders/cutters for a while now.  Guess I have a good reason to get one now.  I noticed Marks "Work Mate", I have 2 of those and use the heck out of them.  Great potable stands, light duty vise, temporary table top support etc. and they fold up for storage. 

Good info on the spring. I have a 950 lb and it is to light. Going up to 1050. You are a little lighter than me.

I am envious of the weather and roads you have down there.

Not my picture so I don't know who to credit.  Lots of variations on the theme. 

[skymasteres]

That was a really good story, mate.
Please write more.

You know Klavdy, I wasn't sure if you were being serious or not.

Just tell me, what engine is powering your FJ at this point?
Sounds as if its running pretty good!
Nice story!

Leon

Leon, I'm running the 1100 engine that I got off of craigslist. Here it is back at the end of July where I started tearing it down, cleaning it up, and putting my original 1200 parts on it.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7691.390


This is basically where I am putting it in the bike back in September.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7691.435

[FJscott]

That's a good looking wheel

[skymasteres]

How's your bike coming along Goerge? That pic there is very similar to the method we used to break the bead on the front wheel. High tech angle cut 2x4 levered under Mark's pickup truck. (I thought we were going to pick up the back of the truck trying to break the front bead.) Unfortunately when you cut the tread portion away from the sidewall, leaving the bead seated on the rim, you lose the ability to use that method to remove the sidewall. (We were a hair's breadth away from just trying to carefully cut the bead off.)

Make sure you look at your shock when you take it apart. (Wish I'd taken pictures of mine when I had it apart) You probably already know this, but when you compress the shock spring you need to remove the two semicircle pieces under the preload adjuster and the spring will come right off.



(Looking at the end right above the aluminum part you can sort of see how the retention plates sit under the adjuster barrel)

Just take a careful look at it. When I got mine apart I found that the two spot welded plates that the adjuster ramps ride on had been deformed by the loads of the 1000#/in spring and riding with a passenger. (I think the issue comes from the spring rate jumping from 750#/in to 1000#/in puts way to much force on the sliding surfaces) The ramps themselves were also slightly deformed around the edges. I cleaned it all up, deburred it with a file, and hammered the edge of the spring cup flat. To take care of the ramp supports on the barrel I put a 2" ball hitch inside it and pounded them flat again with a ballpeen hammer before reassembling it with one of Randy's 2 1/8" Torrington bearings under the spring.


http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACoilOverBrgKit] [url]http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACoilOverBrgKit
[/url]

(This makes a truly AMAZING difference in how easily the adjuster turns. HIGHLY recommended)

The other really awesome thing about it is that the extra 3/16" of an inch that the bearing and races compress the spring makes the bike sit perfectly for me sag wise so I'm not between 5 and 6 on the preload anymore. I may be tempted to try a slightly stiffer spring if I keep riding two up, but I'm going to evaluate this latest change first. I'm not expert on rear suspension tuning, or front for that matter, but I have an idea on how I THINK it should work from all the auto work I've done. Seems to me that in principle you want to run the lightest spring you can that will bear the load of the bike/rider. After that it's up to the shock to damp all the other motion. I'll go to a stiffer spring if I find myself bottoming out and unable to increase the damping of the shock. Right now I'm optimistic that this "soft" feeling I have will be optimal so long as I'm not hitting the end of the shock's travel in either direction.

On to new mods! I finally got my fork brace on.  (Actually I had in on in the previous ride, but I ran out of steam to describe it.) It's a classic example of cheap/free stuff being more expensive than just going out and buying a readily available commercial product. Here is what I started with. A generation 1 (I think) Superbrace. This sucker was HUGE! A completely solid 1" think piece of aluminum weighing in at 2.398 pounds. Talk about overbuilt.




With a little dithering back and forth with FJMonkey, a new fork brace slowly emerged. There was the tried and true, "Well, let's just copy someone else's design. If it works for them why not here?" Of course this was a less than optimal solution.



Then there was some critical thinking about what the easiest way to remove material while retaining strength was. The obvious first step was to thin the thing out. 1" is much thicker than it needs to be. After measuring my fork tubes I determined that the maximum contact area available was only 0.7". So why make it thicker than that? That alone saves 0.734 pounds. Next it was looking to remove material from the middle.

It's kind of neat to see how ideas are refined with the tools available to engineers these days. Yes, there is still a lot of work done on napkins and the like. But isn't it nice to be able to show precisely what you are trying to achieve?



If a 2D sketch is good, why not a 3D representation? That way you can almost get a feel for what's going on.



Of course you want to make sure that it'll hold up to your predicted loads. Here I started to look at putting together a whole front fork/wheel assembly and simulating the loads there, but found that the computational load of doing that would be extreme. Instead I simple fixed the clamping surface of the brace and loaded the top. (Loaded it to 800 pounds just to be on the safe side) This gives me a safety factor over 2 which is good enough for me. (Especially considering that the bike rides fine without one)



And a little mass analysis shows that the final assembly will weigh in at 1.257 pounds! That's a whole 1.141 pounds lighter than the original. Not quite half the weight, but close. I don't know how significant that is to the front fork's ability to control the wheel, due to the reduction in "unsprung" weight. But considering that the
big manufacturers are using hollow titanium brake caliper fasteners and the like, I think that an over one pound reduction is significant.



Now that's a fork brace. Then it's just the back and forth of sorting out the finer details. Things like the tools being used to remove the material.



Of course when it's all said and done, you end up with something awesome that you can't wait to put on the old girl. (Special thanks to Mark for helping me make this happen)




Now as far as performance goes, and the argument of whether or not you need a fork brace, I'll give you my experience. I would think that as a general rule, if you're riding hard enough to break the tabs on your
front fender, you need a fork brace. Now I know that there are a lot of nay sayers that think that fender tabs never break because of riding forces, saying things like "It's the wind" or "You hit something" etc. My bike had 120K miles on it when I got it, and the fender tabs were intact. I rode it for another 8k miles, often hard,
and both tabs broke. I think it's a matter of that 15mm front axle needing to be sufficiently loaded for there to be enough independent movement between the fork tubes to break the tabs.

If you're not riding HARD, you won't notice the difference that a fork brace will make. (Unless you count Dumbo's feather an actual measurable improvement) If you are riding hard the brace makes a HUGE
difference.  I feel it when I'm charging the corner, laying hard on the brakes, heeling the bike over, then nailing the throttle. The bike isn't nearly as twitchy as brakes are applied in the turn and the tendency for the bike to "plow" is slightly reduced. (It'll still plow, just not quite as bad) Overall it gives the bike a much more stable
feeling when you're pushing it and braking in the turn.


Thanks for the comments guys. I don't normally go off on my riding, but I have been just enjoying it immeasurably. There is a really special place when you are so intimately familiar with your machine
that it "talks to you" and you can tell instantaneously when something starts to happen. I'll post more rid info in the future. I can say that really sandy roads are unsettling things...

[movenon]

Wow you put a lot of work in on that brace Mike ! On the tabs I think the flexing doesn't help. I enlarged my tab holes a little and will probably end up with a fork brace, not because I ride hard but because if my fender breaks again I will probably go to a Bandit fender.

The bike will make it. Next is mounting the replacement swing arm and getting the side scoops and fender painted.  That blue/grey fine metallic is hard to match.  My son is working on that, I told him to keep track of the formula.  Am planning on attending the WCR the end of May.  Lots still to do after that but I guess it's a hobby......

I am running a different shock than you are but the spring rate is pretty much universal on the FJ (leverage ratio and all). Thanks for the thickness measurement on the bearing I was wondering about that. What spring compressor are you using ?  I made one but it is about at its limit at 950 lb's.  Near as I can estimate I need to be at 1050 lb.  I can't comment on the high and low speed damping or the rebound yet other than it is pretty easy to modify with a RT Gold valve and or oil wt.

I have learned a lot by following this thread Mike. Thanks for all the work in keeping it going. 

Here is the shock I am using. Adaptable to an 88-90 or 91-93 FJ.  Requirements are different between the two series.


George

[Klavdy]

Course I meant it, these posts are interesting.
Keep 'em coming.

[fj1289]

George

George - nice job on the relay center - very clean install. The H and L are obvious, but what is the G for?  

Also, on those connectors - that is heat shrink tubing - makes the connectors more corrosion and vibration resistant.  I use those style connectors on everything now due to the issues I had on the dragbike wiring harness...

[movenon]

Thanks Chris, I was waiting until I was done with all the wiring before I heat shrink the connectors. The tape was to keep me straight, I plan on labeling them properly when I locate my labeler.... The relays are for the Hella Supertones, running lights and heated grips.

I had to relocate the battery aft and had to make new side brackets so I decided to make them large enough to mount some relays and an accessory fuse box on. The shock mod started the whole cascade of events.

Since the picture was taken I installed protective wire wrap and if you notice the heavy black wire going under the fuse box is the B+ wire going to the starter,  I have clamped that also to prevent it from chaffing.

On the right side I mounted a main 30 amp auto resetting circuit breaker feeding the accessory fuse panel.  A little redundant but there is a reason for it.  And I relocated the FJ fuse box on the side. Just unwrap a little tape and there is enough slack there to relocate without cutting any wires. The Starting solenoid is relocated to a bracket I made under the cross brace using the mount hole that the top of the old air box used.  Again the line relocates without any cutting of the wires.  I like the new layout.  It is easier to see, trouble shoot and replace.  When the existing battery gives up I plan on installing a Lithium battery but want to keep the stock battery box just in case I have a problem on the road I can always get a stock style battery, I like options....



The Uni Pods are the key factor in being able to do the relocation. Love the room....

George

[Pat Conlon]

George, (stop me if you've heard this before) if I were a combat pilot, and my life depended on my flight crew...I want you as my crew chief...

Your aviation experience shows... Well done!

[movenon]

Geezz's  Pat it's not that good but thanks.  One change leads to another problem to solve...  The trick is not to ending up in a box canyon sitting on a milk crate out of ideas...  Just about got there with that shock conversion.  You are familiar with that chain of events.  I am inspired by you and all the other active an inactive members here, I find myself often going back through the old threads digging out a treasure trove of information and ideas.
George

[skymasteres]

Thanks George, it's nice to know the all this dithering around is appreciated. (Nice work with the electrical there. Very clean)

I wish I had taken pictures of breaking the shock down. But I did it at a friend's garage, and I like to be in and out when using other people's equipment. I didn't use a "proper" spring compressor at all. It was a 20 ton press pushing on the steel eyelet with the spring supported on three sides by metal bars arranged in a triangle. Simply drive the press down on the shock, remove the retention plates, then back off on the press and it falls apart.



Here is an image stolen from the below write up. I have highlighted the preload ramp support that was deformed on mine so that you can see where it is on the barrel.

Here is an epic write up on the CBR600RR shock. Complete with some extensive photos of the inner workings. (Basically the same internally as the F4i, but with a fixed chamber)

http://www.peterverdone.com/archive/600RRshock.htm

Here is a view of just how little clearance there is between the relay arm and the original eye of the F4i sock.



Well, here's the update on the newest big thing with respect to this saga. I'm FINALLY mounting that Thunderace swingarm I bought two years ago. Of course, this is a WELL documented swap so there really wasn't any guess work. There were a couple things that were slightly different from the engineering giants that have gone before me. (i.e. Mark Rittner [http://www.fjmods.co.uk/MarcRittner2.htm ] and Dave Carter [http://www.fjmods.co.uk/davecarter.pdf])

Mainly in my choice to keep my 93 GSX-R750 rear wheel as opposed to upgrading to the Thunderace/FZR1000 wheel. I know that this means that I don't get to use the swanky hollow axle, but it also saves me ALL of the extra machine work to the crush drive, and messing with sprockets to get the chain offset right.

My parts list was actually pretty extensive to make this happen. I opted to use the Torrington style thrust bearings on the swingarm pivot, so I used Rittner's measurements on how much to narrow the swingarm by. But this all happened after I loaded all the stuff up and headed out to my local motorcycle shop. Of course before I could to that, I need to take my poor bike apart, AGAIN.



Of course, the F4i was absolutely coated in crud. I was definitely wishing I could get my hands on one of Randy's shock socks. (Especially since I'm too cheap to pay $20 for on off flebay or the like)

Everything has to start somewhere. They really appreciate it when you show up at a shop with all your own tools so that you're not asking to borrow theirs.

That and there were a lot of parts and tools that I needed to bring. Including:



A set of AXK2542 25mm x 42mm x 2mm Thrust Bearings, bought off eBay for $9.00. (Long lead item for sure.)

48" long, 0.75"OD, 0.37" ID, 0.188" Wall 4130 tube to be cut down for the new axel. (The thunderace arm is about 12mm wider than the stock one.)
Aluminum 6061-T6 Extruded Round Tubing 1-1/2" OD, 0.75" ID, 0.375" Wall, 12" Length (Used to make
the spacer/reducer bushings)



2 GIGANTIC 3/4"-16 flange hex nuts. (for the axel, obviously :-p)
Assorted tools, hammer, punches, die, wrenches, tool steel cutter blanks etc...



Of course the first order of business was to fix the lathe. (The agreement was, if I fixed the lathe I could use it to make my parts.) So an hour later, plus a new belt and some scary wiring, the lathe was up and running just fine.



Of course, it's been a LONG time since I actually have used a lathe. There was a period of re-training involved on remembering how to set up the cutters and actually produce workable parts. (That and this lathe was really wonky with poor tolerances and a non-self-centering chuck. Took some doing to get the aluminum stock chucked true)

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nhi__MzQ1Kk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>  P.S. Can't seem to get videos to embed anymore...

That and it's not a particularly powerful tool. But hey, I don't have one, and I got to use it for the cost of my parts, so it all works out. (Or, beggars can't be choosers)

In any case, I still had to make up the axle. That meant cutting a piece of my steel tube and cutting threads into both ends. Let me tell you. It takes a LOT of force to cut 3/4-16 threads by hand in an alloy steel part. The first problem was that it was slipping in the vice, even using the pipe jaws. The solution was to take a pipe wrench, clamp it to the tube, and brace it against the vice jaw.



I actually ended up making two sets of spacers. I figured it the original wheel was centered in the swingarm, I could use a symmetric set of spacers. Well, I was right and wrong. Turns out, when I did my initial measurements, I forgot the little aluminum washer I made up a long time ago. That washer goes between the caliper carrier the steel wheel spacer.



So while it looks nice, all mocked up there. The spacing was wrong.

After MUCH more time than it should have taken to turn these down. (The first one took an hour, the last one five minutes) I ended up with these spacers.



Which ride in the adjuster blocks of the Thunderace arm and keep the new, slightly thinner, axle solidly in place.



The other cool thing is, the flange on those big honking nuts is big enough that I was able to grind two flats on the sides so that it would be locked in the plate just like the stock Ace axle.



Now that I had my spacers, it was time to go back to the garage and get this bad boy installed.



I'll tell you, certain tools certainly make the job much easier. I used the heat trick to make moving the needle bearings easier. Once I got them in position I was able to start removing material from the sides of the pivot with my belt sander. (Now this is where I have to say, that working on something like this when you're depressed and have been drinking isn't such a good idea) But anyway, the work was coming along till I busted the belt in my bench sander. Not to be deterred, I got out my handheld belt sander and cleaned up the little bit of material that I still had to remove to make the bearings fit. The shop certainly turns into a disaster when I'm rolling full steam ahead on a project.



When I put it on the bike the first time, the swingarm just about fell into place. I was concerned and started thinking about why, but decided to press on and get the relay arm sorted out.



The Thunderace arm is much thicker than the FJ in the height department. This necessitates a much shorter set of dog bones to be made. I had a set that Mark gave me that were slightly shorter than stock.



But after moving the arm though it's range of motion several times it was obvious that these were still too long. So I made up these guys.



Just about the same material as the original and 3/4" shorter and Mark's. This puts my rear wheel 1/16" off the ground when I have the bike on the center stand. I think I still need to shorten them, but for now they'll do. (Besides I can only shorten them by another quarter inch before I have to start worrying about binding of the shock against the arm.)



On a side note, these are the "Soupy's" adjustable dog bones that I thought I was going to use. You can see them here next to the stock ones. It's painfully obvious that they are way too long for my application. And I'd ruin any sort of adjustment capability if I tried to shorten them to the point that I need.



Reassembly went well. The axel slipped easily through all the original components due to the slightly smaller OD. So, shimming was required. Simply cut some 0.005" shim stock with some scissors and presto, instant shim. I used some glue and a pipe plug to hold the shims in place so they won't push out when the axle is pushed through.



The Thunderace arm was binding against the spring on the F4i, so it needed to be removed and clearanced. The nice thing is, it's plenty big to get a good grip on it while attacking it with the drill press.



Once that piece was removed it was time to put the arm and the shock back in. Turns out, that the reason that the arm "fell" in the first time was, I forgot the transfer the big washers under the sealing caps that ride against the inner bushing. With these things installed it takes a LOT more futzing to get that dang arm in.

Remember how I said my shock was absolutely filthy when I took it out? Well, I used some scrap canvas and bungie cords to whip up a shock sleeve to cover it this time. (Came out surprisingly well actually.)



While I had the sewing machine out I figured I'd take care of all the tools I'm lugging around in my tank bag. This little tool roll holds them all simply, and the best part is, when I need them, I just roll it out and they're all there. No more digging around in my tank bag.



The really neat thing is the sucker fits right in the original tool pocket in the tail section.



I still can't believe how big these nuts are. I lose the ability to have the pin through the nut though. I was initially concerned about this, but I figure this blue thread locker I should be fine.



That and the other side has red thread locker on it and is retained by the slot in the adjuster.



The idea being that the free spinning nut can be removed without unthreading the axle through the captured nut. (We'll see if it actually works)

The next major PITA was getting the stock chain guard to work. I mean, getting some brackets made up and riveted on was child's play.



The painful part was trying to use the existing mount points to attach the dang thing.



I ended up having to get the chain out of the way to get the bolts in. Another example of all kinds of effort expended doing something the hard way vs. just removing the part that's in the way...

I did discover a neat trick for getting the chain back on though. (Well, if you're using a master link) Just take a small pair of channel lock pliers, grab the two open links, squeeze them together and you can pop the master link right in.



I think the factory chain guard worked out pretty well though. As much as I wanted to do a proper wheel hugger, I just couldn't justify spending $150  for one. I mean, it's a piece of plastic for crying out loud. I'm still looking for one though. I mean, most of my parts have been bought up to years in advance of when they get installed. The hugger though is pretty elusive on the used market. But, I figure if I'm patient enough I'll stumble upon one for a price I'm willing to pay just like the rest of this stuff.



The other thing about messing around with the linkages is that I was able to get a better feel for how the leverage works on everything. I'm optimistic that I'll still be able to get my pleload adjuster up there if I need to. (I left the bottom of the shock sock lose enough that I could just push it up out of the way if needed)

[Klavdy]

Good stuff,
quick questions, any particular reason you chose to use imperial measurements on a metric bike?
Do you now have to have two sets of tools?

[skymasteres]

Good stuff,
quick questions, any particular reason you chose to use imperial measurements on a metric bike?
Do you now have to have two sets of tools?

Well, no particular reason. I am comfortable using both systems as I need to in order to build most of the stuff that I do.

If you're referring to my use of a 0.75" axle instead of the 20mm one. The answer is in the availability of suitable materials.  I would have loved to be able to purchase a 20mm thick 4130 alloy steel thick wall tube to use for my axle. But dimensionally 0.75in = 19.05mm. I figure that the 0.95mm that I had to make up via shims was a worthwhile trade off. Especially since I was looking at all the thread specs to make sure that could thread it and not have the nut pull off. I looked into using an M20 nut, but there would not have been enough material with the 19.05mm OD to allow the threads to have proper engagement.

And yes, I have both sets of tools. (Thank Ford, for switching to metric in the eighties.)

On a side note, I am getting progressively more frustrated with this site as I can't seem to figure out how to embed videos. I used to be able to do it, but now the code isn't working.

[Capn Ron]

On a side note, I am getting progressively more frustrated with this site as I can't seem to figure out how to embed videos. I used to be able to do it, but now the code isn't working.

Hey Mike...Just a quick test of embedding a video:

Mulholland @ 300fps - Red Epic Super Slowmo

Cap'n Ron. . .

[Klavdy]

Easiest way to see how it's done is to "QUOTE" Cap'n Rons post and see how he embedded the vid.

he used the [   , url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPnkDd0cepg#ws]Mulholland @ 300fps - Red Epic Super Slowmo[ /url] method

(There's a couple of spaces that had to be put in so you could see the coding.)

See?

Mulholland @ 300fps - Red Epic Super Slowmo