Splitting the cases

[CutterBill]

I don't know your location, but the shops you are dealing with are either crooks or idiots. Possibly both. It is impossible to "bore and hone" in one step.  Perhaps you could go to YouTube and acquaint yourself with what a proper cylinder boring job looks like.
Bill

[Old Rider]

I don't know your location, but the shops you are dealing with are either crooks or idiots. Possibly both. It is impossible to "bore and hone" in one step.  Perhaps you could go to YouTube and acquaint yourself with what a proper cylinder boring job looks like.
Bill

hi Bill i have now fixed my location in profile thanks for reminding me
The first shop i talked to say they had to look at the cylinders and see if they could bore them.Its a long drive from me and when i got there he sayd that he needed to keep the cylinders some days to find out if he could bore.He also never had done cylinders like that and he had to have the cranckcase mounted to connect the machine onto the crank   He also told me the cylinder was difficult to measure accurate when hot after boring so needed very long time to cool down .I asked what he meant and if he dident use boringcolant   sounded strange to me so
i grabbed the cylinders and ran out of the shop
The next shop i called first because its a long drive .He told me he had done many inline four motorcycle cylinders and it was no problem.When i arrived he looked at the cylinders and say no problem. He then gave me the price he wanted for the job included decking. I had study their pricelist on engineworks and the i found a separate price on boring and honing and different types of honing .I asked if the price was right because it was cheaper than what i calculated on the price list. I asked if he bored and then honed ,but he say he was going to bore and hone in one operation
i was surprised .The machine shop is very experiensed and they have ben in operation  since 1954!
Then he called me and told me the price will be higher because he had to to 2 separate operations because the cylinder had so short stroke and it will get wider in the middle .That is okay with me just a little strange he did not know that when he looked at the cylinders.
I was not surprised he called me that the will be more expensive i have experiensed that many times with other carworkshops. It seems most shops think people are idiots that can nothing about cars and bikes so they can easily be fooled.That is why i do most of the work on my cars and bikes i dont trust the cardealers anymore.

[Old Rider]

Today i called the machineshop because they told me the cylinders will be finished in 1 to 2 weeks. Today 2 weeks is gone he say that he had sendt the cylinders to another place to bore them and then
he was going to hone them next week WTF ??. why sent the cylinders away to another place to bore them?? hmm starting to look a little scary

Yesterday i put the piston conrods back on the crank on the bolts i used moly sulfid grease but then i panicked a little thinking that the bolts is stretched and mayby they had to be replaced or they will come loose after they have been torqued first time .I then used a little of blue locktite on the last outer 3 millimeters of threads on the bolts and moly grease furter down on the treads i torqued the bolts to 36NM .On the bearing journals i used assembly lube .
The manual says it is very important that when tourqe the nuts that it is done in a long motion without stopping before 36NM is reached.I had a little trouble doing that because the crank is outside the enginecase and the torque wrench is long. It is also impotant that the stamped Y on the rods are facing to the left and that the stamped letters on the mating joint match 100%.
Another thing ...im going to install the starterchaindamper now and the manual says to use loctite non hardening type? . I have 243 blue witch is medium strong and is tolerant to oil and heat and green 2701
also tolerant to heat but super strong .Im not sure what to use on the damper bolts.There is also some other srews innside engine that should be loctite on like camsprockets bearing retainer ets ets

[ZOA NOM]

I prefer to use a stretch gauge to install rod bolts. It's far more accurate than a torque wrench.

[Old Rider]

I prefer to use a stretch gauge to install rod bolts. It's far more accurate than a torque wrench.

i didnt know that it was a tool for that     i saw a video on how to use it now on youtube mayby i shall try to measure the bolts with micrometer just to see if they are stretched even.
Anyway the manual does not mention anywhere that the rodbolts on the fj engine has to be replaced so hoping they are good..

[ZOA NOM]

I have also used a micrometer to measure the stretch to verify the stretch gauge. Either should work. I saw no difference in measurements. A difference in your lengths after installation may not reveal anything. They are rarely the same length from the factory. It is the stretch that must be the same, which can only be determined by measuring before and after installation.

I haven't rebuilt an FJ motor, but I would hesitate to reinstall factory rod bolts. They are under tension for their lifespan. Removing and reinstalling them may not be advised. I would defer to Randy's experience here. My application is a Porsche race motor, so my concerns are different, admittedly.

[racerrad8]

Rolf,

I would not use loctite on the con rod bolts. I don't have a gysm here at home but I know they recommend lubing the threads. No thread lock.

I personally used this thread lube: https://arp-bolts.com/p/arpultratorque.php

I use that lube on the threads and coat the shank of the bolt with clean motor oil to keep it from binding within the rod while torque is applied to the nuts. I torque in two steps, 15 and then 25 ft lbs. I torque slowly and don't stop until the required reading. I have a V block stand to hold the crank while applying the torque.

If it was me, I would remove the rod bolts, ensure all loctite is removed and the lube the bolts properly.

I personally don't use any loctite on any bolts in any of the engines I build. But the green will be fine if you want on the chain guide bolts.

If you are concerned with the rod bolts, we have new ones on the shelf.

Randy - RPM

[Old Rider]

Im starting to get paranoid over the rodbolts and I have now done alot of connetion rod work since last post.That is because i discovered that the rod on cylinder 1 had a bad angliment with the cap on one side.It was a little sharp edge that was catching when feeling with the fingernail in the seemline.
I decided to take the rods off again to angle them better.I then put them back on but this time i used green loctite
2701 on the last 3mm of outer treads and moly sulfid grease on the rest of the bolt.The loctite i used because im reusing the bolts and want to be sure the nut dont come lose.
everything vent okay and i torqued the bolts to 36NM .Then i remeber when lying in bed at night  that on one of the bolt when i torqued it  did go past the click point on the wrench. it was like it slipped right after the click was heard .It was mayby a little more than a quarter of a turn.I was not in 100% focus and I was silly enough that i did not write down witch bolt it was.
Then the day after i was thinking that the slip i felt was the slip of stripped threads....
I have 4 rods extra from when i bought the almost new pistons earlier so i decided to do some testing by overthightening the rodbolts and se if the treads got stripped.I did some test with the rods placed on a old bicyle frame tube.
I tryed to increase the tourque by 14Nm  from 36NM to 50 NM what happened was that i never got the wrench to click
and i did not feel any more increased force and i could see the bolt getting longer stretched very much then it snapped even if the pressure in the wrench was the same.
Then did some more test with decreased nm i think it was at 45 the same happened no click just stretching and the snapped
I then decreased to ca 40NM and then the wrench clicked .When i unsrew the bolt i could see it was heavy deformed
it was much thinner from where the nut is sitting .I did not take a picture of that bolt because when i tryed to touque it once more it got stuck just spinning around like stripped treads.  but have some pic of the other snapped bolts and you can see how thin the bolt is where it snapped.
One interesting thing i find was that when tourqueing in a long slow movement the wrech did click but when
going in small steps the wrench did not clich and then the bolts snapped.
Mayby that is why the workshopmanual says it is very important to keep a long movement and dont stop betwen 30 and 36NM .
After that test session i decided that it was no way aroud it i  just had to  take all rods off again  and clean everything down with aceton and steelbrush to get the loctite off again!! to chech the bolts for stretch or stripped treads.
So today that is what i have done cleaned everything down again and inspecting and measuring the bolts .
Every bolt and nut looks 100% fine so im think i reuse them  i just have to be 100% focused . this time
Another thing i found strange is the manual and the haynes says 36 NM or 25 ft.lb when using a Newton to ft.lb converter it is 36 nm = 26.5 ft.lb  ?
on the cyl headnuts the manual says 35 nm or 25 ft.lb  but using a converter it is 25 ft.lb = 33.895 nm ?
Yesterday i mounted the rods again and torqued to 36 NM with only moly grease thinking that everything is fine
But today im starting to get paranoid about reusing the bolts thinking a used bolt snaps and mayby i shall buy  new 100 usd bolts?

[ZOA NOM]

No way I'd re-use rod bolts multiple times. The metal fatigues with each stretch. I doubt the manufacturer would advise it. You'll never rev that motor again without freaking out.

[FJ_Hooligan]

I'm confused about the use of Loctite on the end of the rod bolt. 

Are you thinking that will prevent a loose bolt from coming all the way off of the bolt?

If a nut gets that loose then the rod cap is going to be flying off shortly after.  A loose cap will lose its oiling film and the shock loads will cause catastrophic failure.  The only warning will be maybe a few seconds of knocking before what's left of the rod flies out of the front of the engine case.

[Old Rider]

I used the loctite because i wanted extra security on my reused bolts to be sure that the nut did not unsrew .I read that loctite is used in aircraft engine rodbolts for extra security.
Today i have been to Yamaha dealer and the mechanic told me i could reuse the bolts .  I ordered new bolts and nuts anyway so i dont need to think about a rod coming out of
the crancase .So there goes another 120 US dollars out of my wallet

[racerrad8]

Rolf,

Not sure if you were aware, we have rod bolts and nuts in stock.

We actually have almost every engine part on the shelf. Unfortunately many of those parts are not listed on the website.

I'm at home so I'm not sure, but is seems to me $120.00 is expensive. I could be mistaken, it is 4:00am.

I'll have Robert advise you this morning when he gets to the shop.

Secondly, there are two things you need to correct for the new rod bolts.

1) DO NOT use loctite.
      Lube the bolts as recommended.

2) You need to do something about your torque wrench.

Please, please follow my advice. I have rebuilt 1000% more of these engines than your Yamaha dealer has even seen in his lifetime.

Randy - RPM

[Old Rider]

Rolf,

Not sure if you were aware, we have rod bolts and nuts in stock.

We actually have almost every engine part on the shelf. Unfortunately many of those parts are not listed on the website.

I'm at home so I'm not sure, but is seems to me $120.00 is expensive. I could be mistaken, it is 4:00am.

I'll have Robert advise you this morning when he gets to the shop.

Secondly, there are two things you need to correct for the new rod bolts.

1) DO NOT use loctite.
      Lube the bolts as recommended.

2) You need to do something about your torque wrench.

Please, please follow my advice. I have rebuilt 1000% more of these engines than your Yamaha dealer has even seen in his lifetime.

Randy - RPM

Thanks for that and
I knew you had the bolts in stock  and that the parts i bought from you usally is half the price the dealer wants, but these bolts was almost same price  so while i was there at the yamaha dealer  desided that i just bought the bolts and nuts  i think with postage the price will be the same.
I will not use loctite im going to only use Molybdenum Disulfide grease on the treads as the manual says when torquing this time.

But now i read that if replacing the rodbolts the rod must be resized ??

[Old Rider]

Today i got a package from RPM with carburetor screw and o ring set and some other parts .As usual Robert and Randy at RPM sendt the parts faster than lightning so great thanks to them.
Im looking forward to se how the short oiljet nozzle  works.
Today i have started rebuild of the carburetors i did not get finished but got som work done. Im not sure if i going to separate the carbs to replace the o rings on the fuel transfer tubes and oveflow tubes.

[Bones]

Im not sure if i going to separate the carbs to replace the o rings on the fuel transfer tubes and oveflow tubes.

It's been drummed into me that if your going to do a job, do it properly. You have all the parts there so why not replace everything, you've been very thorough with your work so far.  A local member over here stripped his carbs and found a split O ring on one of those tubes even though it wasn't leaking before.  Once done then you can say with confidence that your carbs will be trouble free.