FJ1346 from ashes to... Well, we'll see...

[CatTomb]

Dying to watch the video, but it says it is private...    

Congrats on getting IT back together. Can't wait to hear it run.  

Jeff

[skymasteres]

JMR. You're right. But since I had to take 12 valves about out and tweak them again to get them where I wanted them I'm glad I didn't take it to a shop. It's one thing to be as preceise in your measurements as possible, but still using a best guess, and have to itteratively approach your goal on your own time. It's quite another when paying somone else $75 an hour to do it.

Besides, I got them pretty darn square when I checked them against my square. (It's actially fairly easy to see visially when queing off of the chamfer line on the stem.) Once I had the material removed on the batch that needed a second go I re-chamferd them so save the stem seals.

I guess it boils down to what kind of issues you're willing to accept. I looked at the possibility of there being a slight misalignment of the force being put on the valve stem. Then I looked inside the spring cup. The raised portion that pushes on the stem is about two thirds the diameter of the valve. So even if the valve tip is a slightly slanted there really isn't going to be much side loading anyway. (Well MAYBE if it were REALLY off. But if it was that glossly out of square it would be pretty obvious)

And finally, this motor has other issues that are going to finish it early anyway. So it being a hold over till I sort out the one that blew up is okay.

Okay okay guys. I fixed the video. It's available now.

[skymasteres]

Okay, I have to jump ahead here...
Cue 2001 Space Odyssey music....

Does this mean you are up for a ride this weekend?

Yeah! But I'm planning on heading down to long beach for the Red Bull Flugtag on Saturday. Maybe meet up on the way back?

This thing still rides great. But I miss the TORQUE of the bigger motor...
And the way the sucker would launch in any gear from 5000 rpm...

[FJmonkey]

Yeah! But I'm planning on heading down to long beach for the Red Bull Flugtag on Saturday. Maybe meet up on the way back?

This thing still rides great. But I miss the TORQUE of the bigger motor...
And the way the sucker would launch in any gear from 5000 rpm...

Maybe Sunday then, might be a bit late by the time you get back on Sat.

[rlucas]

Yeah! But I'm planning on heading down to long beach for the Red Bull Flugtag on Saturday...

Is a Flugtag the Germanic aeronautic equivalent of a Kookaloo? 


Rossi

[skymasteres]

Yeah! But I'm planning on heading down to long beach for the Red Bull Flugtag on Saturday...

Is a Flugtag the Germanic aeronautic equivalent of a Kookaloo? 


Rossi

I suppose you could look at it that way. It's more those men and their wonderful flying machines with
rednecks and engineers competing.  It was a lot of fun.



So in this whole mess I have come across some differences between the FJ1100 and FJ1200 motors. 
I'm sure this has already been documented but I'll throw in some pictures too.

The alternators are different. Well the engine cases for that matter as well. The FJ1100 has a two bolt
alternator and the FJ1200 has a three bolt. Cool to see that they actually strengthened the mointing point.
The alternator was only being held in by one bolt as the lower one had snapped. )Probably why they changed it...)




Here is a really interesting difference. The clutch pushrod is a three piece arrangement with two steel tips and
an aluminum center section. It's kind of neat to see the engineering that went into making this a max performance
machine, and then later the changed it to a solid steel rod. The three piece part is actually considerably lighter
than the later steel part.




Another interesting change is the ignition between the two engines. The FJ1100 has a different crank trigger and two
pulse generators. The FJ1200 does the same job with a single pulse generator and a crank trigger that has four teeth.

[skymasteres]

Now that I'm looking into it, there were a whole slew of changes to the FJ as it grew old and fat from its
superbike days to its transition to a super touring bike. The foot pegs on early models are aluminum.
On the 89+ models they are steel. The rear brake on the early models is aluminum verses steel on the 89+
models. The rear swingarm went from aluminum to steel in the 91+ models. These are all places that the
manufacture saved on build cost at the expense of weight.  Not that it wasn't a reasonable compromise,
it's just funny to see how the evolution occurred.
Other design changes came about due to unforeseen issues. Things like the extra tab on the alternator.
Or the omission of one of the case bolts because it would snap anyway.

Sooooo much going on it's crazy. I get the bike up and running and it's like all of the gremlins come out to
screw with me. First everything is going fine, then the fuel gauge starts bouncing so violently that after a
while it actually shakes the hubcap off of the needle. I noticed it because it was a new point of light in the
cluster. The weird thing about the gauge is that it only starts bouncing in the 6-7.5K+ RPM  range.  And it's
not the gauge going "dry".  There are times when it's fine and hardly moves at all while I'm going over
rough roads.  As a troubleshooting step I pulled out all of my ignition relay stuff to make sure that I hadn't
caused the problem. That didn't fix it. I also removed and cleaned the engine case ground, put some dielectric
grease on it, and reinstalled it to make sure that that wasn't the issue. Still no dice.  After doing a search
on the boards here I can across a similar issue and it was a connector problem in the main fairing connector.
I plan on pulling it apart and using some DeoxIT on it and see if that fixes the issue.

Although on a side note. I was on the ground with a VHF radio that night that I took the sunset photo and
noticed that the radio picked up a tremendous amount of noise when I turned the ignition of the bike on.
It wasn't running, just sitting there with the headlight on. The other think that I have noticed is that my
phone often gives me a "GPS signal lost" message. This hasn't happened to me on any other bike or in the
car. I can be in downtown LA and still get a lost signal message. I just wonder why the bike is spewing so
much RF noise...

On a happier note, I finally wore out the rear tire that came with the bike.  Got about 2600 miles out of it.
(Pretty good considering it was already pretty squared off when I got it) Before I changed it I took it out for
a ride on the angeles crest highway to really get a feel for the handling characteristics. I found that the tire
had good grip, but when I was over on the edge it was sort of squirrely. Didn't feel like I was going to lose
traction, just that the rear tended to wonder a little.

Here is a comparison between the 150/80R16 and 180/55R17 tires.


It's amazing how much smaller the rear disk is on the 93 GSXR-750 wheel when compared to the FJ1200 one.



Once you have the wheel out you're thinking that you have all kinds of space...




I was definitely REALLY glad I had already sorted out the reaction lug for the under slung brake while I had
the swingarm off earlier in the build... Made life worlds easier...



The one thing that kills me is how ineffective the rear brake is now.  I think that it has to do with the fact that
I'm running a 26 something inch rubber brake like and I am losing a lot of my braking effort in swelling the line.
(the FJ line was too short for the under slung caliper) I have a request in the Speigler to see what a 16.5" braided
stainless line will run me. Hopefully that will fix the issue. I mean, the brake works, it's just REALLY weak...
(And yes, it is properly bled...)





I also did my first valve adjustment. After 1000 miles two intakes were too loose, and two exhaust valves where
at 0.003". (Just a little tight) Everything else was in spec. Although for those of you with engine bars. How do you
turn the engine manually? You can't get the crankshaft cover off with the bar in place. I thought about putting
a wrench on the cam and doing it that way, but I didn't want to accidentally snap the sucker...



And it's amazing what kinds of "little" issues can be a royal pain. Things like the side stand rubbing the shifter so
that it doesn't return to the middle position. (Acting like the shifter spring is broken)  My solution was to get a
1/8" thrust washer and put it in there to take up the play. It's not perfect, but it works for now...





Well that's all for now folks...

[skymasteres]

Oh, okay. I lied. There's plenty more I can post up here and talk about. I just keep forgetting now that I
jumped the gun and posted the 2001 space odyssey montage...
I finally mounted the Wolo "Bad Boy" horn that I bought for my V45 Magna three years ago...
I never actually mad it on the magna, but it's right at home tucked up under the fairing on the FJ.





The fun part, is this thing is like having a freeze ray for people that want to make unsignaled excursions into your
personal little bubble. Before, I would have to evade, and continue evading as dufus behind the wheel continues
the maneuver, completely oblivious to the howling error he/she has made.  Now, I stab the horn button and dufus
freezes in his/her tracks, as if frozen by some invisible force allowing my evasion to be less dramatic and much
safer as I hardly have to evade at all. The two seconds that the dufus uses to figure out "what the hell just
happened" is plenty for me to get out of harm's way.

Putting the horn in was actually easier than I thought it would be. I just took the stock horn bracket out, cut off the
welded on bolt, pounded the remaining material flat, and drilled a 5/16" hole in it. This way I was able to retain the
stock gusset in the mount so that it will be strong enough to hold the weight of the heavier horn. 





The important thing on the 89+ FJ's is the wiring for the horn. One wire on the stock horn is running straight to the
positive terminal of the battery. The other goes to the horn switch on the handlebar then to ground when the
switch is depressed.  If you run a relay for the horn you need to use BOTH these wires on the relay. If you run your
own ground then neither of the wires will operate the horn for you. Alone both of them will have no reaction to
the horn switch. One will constantly energize the relay's coil sounding the horn. The other will do nothing. You
need to use them both of the relay's coil for the horn to work.  I scratched my head over this one for quite some
time before I grabbed the volt meter to figure out what was going on...

[skymasteres]

So, it's been a case of, fix one thing and you find another thing needing fixing...

I get the rear tire put on and notice that the handling is kind of off. I have a sort of clunking noise coming
from the front. On the ride home I took my hands off the bars and they started to oscillate back and forth
fairly rapidly after a couple seconds. Needless to say I got back on them pretty quickly.  When I got home
I put the bike on the center stand and jacked the front end off of the ground. After grabbing the wheel I
discovered that I could move the forks back and forth about 1/4". That's a lot of play. So, off came the clips,
top yolk, and instrument panel.  The head bearing nut is actually pretty easy to tighten. Then everything
went back together.




For those that are interested, the center to center distance of the allen bolts holding the clips on is 142mm.
Oh, and on a side not. If you have a braided stainless clutch line you're planning on putting in, this is a easy
way to get some extra clearence to get at the frame mounted hard line. I ended up using two short stainless
lines and kept the original hard line. (Completely minimize swelling. The end result is pretty impressive.)

While I had the bike pulled into the garage I poked around a little bit I found that the bottom bolt holding the
alternator in place had sheared again. Taking a closer look at the bolt you can see that it's a fatigue failure
happening with a bending load. Because of where the bolt is that is failing, it's only real stress input is from the
torque of the alternator's reaction to generating power. That's pretty impressive actually. Turns out the stock
fastener is a medium carbon steel bolt. About equivalent to a grade 5 SAE bolt. I replaced it with a tempered
alloy steel 12.9 class bolt. (We'll see if that one shears)

Hopefully it will endure the fatigue stress and not work the threads out of the case...

[fintip]

Great info. Glad it's all working out. You seem to have quite the luck--just not sure it's mostly good luck. 

[red]

So, it's been a case of, fix one thing and you find another thing needing fixing...
I get the rear tire put on and notice that the handling is kind of off. I have a sort of clunking noise coming
from the front. On the ride home I took my hands off the bars and they started to oscillate back and forth
fairly rapidly after a couple seconds. Needless to say I got back on them pretty quickly.  When I got home
I put the bike on the center stand and jacked the front end off of the ground. After grabbing the wheel I
discovered that I could move the forks back and forth about 1/4". That's a lot of play. So, off came the clips,
top yolk, and instrument panel.  The head bearing nut is actually pretty easy to tighten. Then everything
went back together.

Skymasteres,

That is a lot of play there, to appear out of nowhere.  If one or more of the bearings has crumbled in the races, you could have the forks lock up when riding, instead of turn.  It would not be fun. 

If you have cleaned and inspected the bearings, then fine.  If there is any "grittiness" or rough noises when you turn the steering head, it would be best to catch it now, before you have to give your insurance a workout.  I have heard of people replacing the stock steering head bearings with tapered rollers, here, and this job would be a substantial upgrade for little extra money.  Others here can tell you more about the tapered roller bearings than I can. 
. . . For your consideration . . .

Cheers,
Red

[movenon]

So, it's been a case of, fix one thing and you find another thing needing fixing...
I get the rear tire put on and notice that the handling is kind of off. I have a sort of clunking noise coming
from the front. On the ride home I took my hands off the bars and they started to oscillate back and forth
fairly rapidly after a couple seconds. Needless to say I got back on them pretty quickly.  When I got home
I put the bike on the center stand and jacked the front end off of the ground. After grabbing the wheel I
discovered that I could move the forks back and forth about 1/4". That's a lot of play. So, off came the clips,
top yolk, and instrument panel.  The head bearing nut is actually pretty easy to tighten. Then everything
went back together.

Skymasteres,

That is a lot of play there, to appear out of nowhere.  If one or more of the bearings has crumbled in the races, you could have the forks lock up when riding, instead of turn.  It would not be fun.  

If you have cleaned and inspected the bearings, then fine.  If there is any "grittiness" or rough noises when you turn the steering head, it would be best to catch it now, before you have to give your insurance a workout.  I have heard of people replacing the stock steering head bearings with tapered rollers, here, and this job would be a substantial upgrade for little extra money.  Others here can tell you more about the tapered roller bearings than I can.  
. . . For your consideration . . .

Cheers,
Red

Just recently went through and replaced my upper and lower races and bearings and I believe that all the head bearings are tapered in the FJ's. I can't say all models without checking the parts interchangeability but that's my thought. TQ'd mine close to 2.2 ft lb, actually 2.5 because I use a home made socket and measured at the ring nut center. Factory spec is 2.2 but there tool measures at about 3 " (eye ball measurement) away from the center.
But like you said, nice and smooth with no binding or noises. I have also just tightened the ring nut down to the point where the front end will just "fall" left and right smoothly and at the same rate. Not as accurate but field adjustment. After you adjust 5 or 6 bikes that way you get a feel for it.
After I replaced the bearings in mine and I just had the stem by itself nutted up in the head (no forks, wheel, cable or lines) it seemed best to try it the factory way. Also the ring nut's have and up and down side, don't forget the rubber washer between the ring nuts.
George

[skymasteres]

Fintip, Red, George,  I appreciate the concern. Yes, they are tapered roller bearings. They were replaced
much earlier in the project and have less than 3000 miles on them. I also followed the factory torque specs
on the nuts. But to be honest I think it was just a matter of them completely bedding in, and the swap to
a factory balanced motor. This thing buzzes and vibrates like crazy compared to the engine it replaced. I
figure it was all the new vibration that loosened the nuts up.   Well that and the little rubber washer
between the two nuts being kind of hard...

Well shoot, here's the link to the part of the thread where I did the original bearing install, but all the links
are broken.  Photo bucket support said they fixed them.  (We'll see how long it takes them to get it fixed)

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7691.30

Well anyway, I tightened the nuts down to just past the point of letting the forks flop over. They move smoothly
when tapped away from center now.  And OH WOW, what a difference that makes in the way the bike handles.

So, on the ride home yesterday the bike started behaving funny.  It was low on power and didn't want to idle
right. About 30 seconds later it just died. I was kind of confused since I had just filled the tank.  I cranked
and cranked and cranked and it would just stumble and not fire up. Off came all helmet and ear plugs and I
started poking around. I turned the key off and on and heard the full pump running. It timed out four times
before it stopped pumping when the key was turned on.  After that it started up just fine, so I put my gear
back on and rode off. Two minutes  later it sputtered and died again. This time the fuel pump wouldn't run at all.
(I am soooo glad I have an extension fitting on my fuel line.) It's funny how it acts like a fuel petcock when it's
not working. So, off came the seat and side panel, I rerouted the line, and away I went.



I have to check my carb settings some time because the thing seems to pull harder with the carbs running
via gravity feed than on the fuel pump.

Great news! When I got home I found a package waiting for me. It was my 16.5" Braided stainless steel brake
line from Rennsport. Unfortunately I was using a messed up ruler so in spike of measuring multiple times it was
still wrong... I should have ordered a 17.5" line. But, luckily for me, 16.5" is about the minimum length that you
can have for the brake line. You can see just how much shorter the sucker is than the GSXR line here.




It made the routing a little more direct but it works. Oh, and I couldn't use the stock brake line bracket.





But everything clears through the whole range of motion and it doesn't rub, so I'm going to call it a win...





I have to say though, I'm kind of disappointed in the performance. I was under the misconception that I would
pick up some additional braking force with the line replacement. I thought perhaps I was hitting the end of the
master cylinder's travel with swelling up the rubber line. It turns out I wasn't. The real improvement is that
there is about half the pedal travel there was to get the same brake effect. So in that sense it's good because
the feel and feedback is more precise and I'm not pointing my toe into the ground with full rear brake applied.

Any suggestions for a grippier rear brake pad?  

Oh, and my charge issue seems to be temperature related. When the bike is cool in the morning the alternator is
putting out 13.8-14.1V. After a half hour this drops to a very dynamic range of 10.5-12.9V. I'm not sure what to
make of it. But it always seems to start out strong when the engine is cold...


Oh, yeah. And I lost one of my chain pullers. More on that latar. 

[FJmonkey]

Mike, the HH rated pads seem have really good grab. I am not that concerned on the rear brake so I have stock pads.

[FJ_Hooligan]

I think it should be more consistent than this, but what about the following scenario with regards to the charging voltages you're seeing?

When you first start it you put a drain on the battery that the alternator is replenishing in the first 30 minutes.  After that, the battery is topped off and it acts like a "float" charging system.  Basically turning the alternator off until the voltage depletes enough to turn it back on.  Maybe it's just cycling the alternator field but the battery doesn't really need much charging to maintain?

Again, just a theory to explain erratic voltages you're seeing.  I'd rather talk about your reserve function.  :-)