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Author Topic: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL  (Read 46360 times)
Waiex191
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« on: May 15, 2020, 09:34:14 PM »

Back in 1989 I graduated school and started my first job.  Between graduation and my start date, I rode a 1981 Suzuki GS650E from Connecticut to California and back.  Got to see a bunch of the country.  I intended to do some more long distance riding, plus with a paycheck I wanted to upgrade from my two '81 Suzukis.  I also had a GN400, which I still have and ride.  When I first sat on the FJ in the dealership, I knew I had the right bike.  I had also considered a Hawk NT650.  Very cool bike, but I could only afford one.  I bought it with 75 miles on the clock from the dealer.

Fast forward a few years - now I'm married with two kids in diapers.  I have a lot less time.  I had stopped riding the GN400 because I needed to adjust the valves.  Then the fuel pump or something died on the FJ, and I parked it - then never got around to fixing it until recently.  I did get the GN going again a couple of years ago.  My kids are out of diapers (thankfully) and my oldest just got a Magna 500 from a neighbor.  It's time to get back in.

First I started taking the bike apart.  Bodywork:


Here the carbs have been pulled off.  Nice and easy with the perimeter frame.  


Sitting since 2004 (the date I wrote on the last battery) was not good for the carbs.  Everything had turned to glue.  In trying to get the float pivots out, I managed to break a couple of pivot mounts.  Also I stripped an emulsion tube.  Not good.  Here is the first pivot I broke:


At this point it was clear that I couldn't proceed with the carbs together.  And, once you are truly screwed, you have nothing to lose.  So I separated them.


To fix it, I drilled a couple of .040" holes and safety wired the broken piece back on.  




Then I broke another one.  This pin was really stuck.  You can see I've bent the pin as well.


With the bent pin, I had to dremel off the other side so I could remove the float.


I safety wired this one back on too.  Curious what the peanut gallery thinks of this repair, or if there are any other ideas out there.




I mentioned I stripped an emulsion tube.  That sucker was really glued in place.  Try 2: I ground a screwdriver until it was an awesome fit.  Then I PB blastered up the jet.  Then it was time for heat.


Success!


Using the torch and PB blaster I went after the damaged emulsion tube.  I got it out.  You can see how badly I buggered it up.


So now I've got another float and emulsion tube coming via ebay.  I'm looking for recommendations on carb rebuild kits.  As a minimum I think I want to replace the fuel transfer o-rings, the float seat o-ring, the float valves, bowl gaskets (which I'll probably make), and some of the other vent looking thing o-rings.  

More to come...
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Bryan
1989 FJ1200
1981 Suzuki GN400
Poplar Grove, IL
 
Waiex191
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 09:47:44 PM »

So during the middle of the activities of the prior post, I decided to see if the motor was seized or not.
https://youtu.be/mjeyf-bbH2M

Also did a check of my fuel pump.
https://youtu.be/Bfzu3ZcGYCw
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Bryan
1989 FJ1200
1981 Suzuki GN400
Poplar Grove, IL
 
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 10:58:42 PM »


To fix it, I drilled a couple of .040" holes and safety wired the broken piece back on.....


I might have a set of FJ1100 carburetor bodies I'd make you a deal on. Let me know if I should check.

Good luck!
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Steve
Columbia, Missouri, USA, Earth
I'm am half as fast as 'half-fast', the fastest slow guy....
Ted Schefelbein
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 08:37:00 AM »

Drilling .040 holes in anything is a DRAG! How many bits did you go through? The offer of a couple replacement bodies, above, seems like a good thing to me.

For the last few years, I’ve used the 1 gallon cans of Berryman dip type carb cleaner when attacking dirty equipment. If I have a seized part, a good soak in that stuff will do much to loosen it. Yes, it eats plastic and O rings, but, at that point, those things are going to need to be replaced, anyway.

Good luck getting you bike road worthy. Looks like a project that will keep you close to home for a bit.

Ted
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1989 FJ 1200
Waiex191
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 09:33:49 AM »

Steve,
I might be interested in the carb bodies.  I may try my current repair first though.  What is the parts compatibility between the 1100 and 1200?  For my 37K-ish miles I've done nothing to the bike except oil & filter changes, valve adjustments, and tires.  I'm not well versed in what parts swap.

Ted, I broke two bits - both on the same hole.  It was late and I was tired.  Otherwise it wasn't too bad.  I used the drill press, high speed, and cleared the chips frequently.  Of course a drill that small doesn't clear itself at all.
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Bryan
1989 FJ1200
1981 Suzuki GN400
Poplar Grove, IL
 
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 11:21:00 AM »

Just be aware how thoroughly the carbs have to be cleaned.  Takes most of us a couple false attempts before really getting them right. 

And, stating the obvious, I’d replace all the brass in them just to be sure - and helps get to all the passages that have to be thoroughly cleaned.

RPM (banner at top) will have everything you need - including the screw and o-ring replacement kit too.
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Waiex191
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 12:13:23 PM »

Just be aware how thoroughly the carbs have to be cleaned.  Takes most of us a couple false attempts before really getting them right. 

And, stating the obvious, I’d replace all the brass in them just to be sure - and helps get to all the passages that have to be thoroughly cleaned.

RPM (banner at top) will have everything you need - including the screw and o-ring replacement kit too.

I'm aware!  I had my 1981 GN400 carb apart 5 or 6 times before I finally found the last plugged up passage.  I'll check out RPM, thanks.
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Bryan
1989 FJ1200
1981 Suzuki GN400
Poplar Grove, IL
 
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2020, 02:09:25 PM »

Steve,
I might be interested in the carb bodies.  I may try my current repair first though.  What is the parts compatibility between the 1100 and 1200?  For my 37K-ish miles I've done nothing to the bike except oil & filter changes, valve adjustments, and tires.  I'm not well versed in what parts swap.

Here are some pictures. There are others here far more knowledgeable than I as to what will swap and what will not.

I'd sell the whole thing as it is or just the bodies you want.

Reasonable offers considered.
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Steve
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I'm am half as fast as 'half-fast', the fastest slow guy....
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 02:10:18 PM »

One more pic

I have only used these for wall art. They came with some parts I bought.
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Steve
Columbia, Missouri, USA, Earth
I'm am half as fast as 'half-fast', the fastest slow guy....
Waiex191
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 11:07:08 PM »

Thanks Steve, that looks like a great option if my fix is not good.

I figure that I'll probably have these carbs apart more than once.  I know I did on my GN400, but that is only one cylinder/carb.  So I thought I'd make some tooling for bowl gaskets.

Here I've drilled the big hole from the bowl protrusion (no idea what it is called or what it is for) and I am match drilling the 4 holes for the bowl screws.  The material is phenolic, maybe 1/2" thick or so.


Next I've screwed down  the tool through 3 pieces of gasket paper (forgot the 4th) into scrap plywood and am transferring holes.  


Trimming around the outside of the tool.


Marking the inside cutout.  After making my first gasket I went back and located six 1/4" holes in the inside corners of the cutout.


Fit on the bowl:


Fit on the carb body.


Also I found my original factory shop manual this morning.
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Bryan
1989 FJ1200
1981 Suzuki GN400
Poplar Grove, IL
 
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 04:39:43 AM »


....... through 3 pieces of gasket paper....


Good stuff Bryan. Does the "paper" you're using have some thickness too it? I know everyone's terminology is different but what is generally referred to as gasket paper is thin (like paper). The bowls and carby body mating surfaces are not machined and as such, do not form a good seal, the gasket needs a bit of thickness to take up any irregularities.
Providing you don't tear them, they can be re-used almost indefinitely, they're not submerged nor under pressure but fuel has a very low viscosity.

Noel

 
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Waiex191
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 07:21:51 AM »

Noel,
I'm using Fel-Pro 3157.  It's about 1/32" thick, or about 0.8mm.
https://www.amazon.com/3157-Fel-Pro-3157-material-para-juntas/dp/B000CNISM2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=felpro%2B3157&qid=1589807650&sr=8-1&th=1

Most of my old gaskets did not survive taking the bowls off after a 16 year nap.  And I can attest that they are rock-hard. 

When I did my GN400 carb (several times) I used Fel-Pro 3045.  That worked ok but it seemed to soak up some gas.  The 3157 is rubber fiber based and should be better in this application.
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Bryan
1989 FJ1200
1981 Suzuki GN400
Poplar Grove, IL
 
ribbert
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 08:21:11 AM »

Noel,
I'm using Fel-Pro 3157.  It's about 1/32" thick, or about 0.8mm.
https://www.amazon.com/3157-Fel-Pro-3157-material-para-juntas/dp/B000CNISM2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=felpro%2B3157&qid=1589807650&sr=8-1&th=1

Most of my old gaskets did not survive taking the bowls off after a 16 year nap.  And I can attest that they are rock-hard. 

When I did my GN400 carb (several times) I used Fel-Pro 3045.  That worked ok but it seemed to soak up some gas.  The 3157 is rubber fiber based and should be better in this application.

Sounds like you're on top of it.

Noel
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"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you”
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2020, 11:17:56 AM »

Here are the results of my rev-2 to the gasket template.  Instead of drawing the inside line using an old gasket, and then cutting it out, I've added six holes to define the perimeter of the inside of the gasket.  Then I can go back and use a ruler to cut it out easily.


I had delusions of reusing all my screws.  I did strip a couple of screws holding the diaphram covers on.  I dremeled a slot into them and got them off.  Rather than just get the RPM o-ring kit looks like I'll be getting the one with new screws.  


First diaphram out.  Needle is a bit dirty.  Do I need to pull the needle to clean it any more?  


Here they are all out.


Four stripped carbs.


Next I went to work on the brakes.  I noticed my fender mount holes are busted, probably from my awesome movers.  This bike has gone through two moves while dormant.  Anybody have a good fix?  I may try something with fiberglass.  My '98 Saturn has plastic body panels and I am also seeing brittle old plastic there.  I busted a lot of mount tabs and re-fabricated them in glass.


Brake shoes from the left side:


Here is the right front brake.  Looks pretty nasty.


I realized what I was calling an emulsion tube is really just the pilot jet.  It seems the emulsion tube is pinned into place and I'm not sure how to remove it to clean it.  I'm going to search the forums but also welcome any links or other advice.  This carb is similar to the 36MM mikuni on my '81 GN400, but not exactly the same.
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Bryan
1989 FJ1200
1981 Suzuki GN400
Poplar Grove, IL
 
Pat Conlon
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 03:02:20 PM »

The emulsion tube (aka jet nozzle, needle jet) is held in place by the main jet. The tube slides out thru the top (the bore of the vacuum slides)
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1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don’t store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the ‘84-87 FJ’s:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3
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