Splitting the cases

[Old Rider]

After trying to stop the bad noise Skveeking metallick noise and high metallick bangs coming from engine i decided to split the cases .So far i have tryed replacing the cam chain and chaintensioner replaced complete clutch with basket and all bearings.Last thing i did some days ago i replaced the rubberdampers in the rearwheel hub as they were worn out and i had a 6mm back and forth slack in the rear sprocket hub carrier.I was thinking that replacing the dampers would ease the shock on transmission and drivetrain and hopefully make the bad noise go away.That did not help at all the noise is even worse 
So yesterday i tok a compression test on hot engine, the readings look god the measurements was:

Syl 1  11.0 BAR 159 PSI
Syl 2  11.4 BAR 166.7 PSI
Syl 3  11.4 BAR 166.7 PSI
Syl 4  10.9 BAR 158.09 PSI
First i got very low readings like 7,5bar but then i forgot that you must have the throttle wide open.
Also forgot to take another test with a teespoon oil in the cylinders.I already had drained out the engine oil when i
remembered.I not sure if the oil test is needed when the results of the dry test is good?

So now i have the engine out i removed the generator startermotor and clutch with basket before i removed the engine.
It was alot heavier than i tought and i can barly lift it 10 centimeters of the ground.The plan now is to split it in my little garage not ideal because it is dark tight and about 2-3inches of gravel on floor.

I have read the replace second gear guide in the trasmission thread,but there is something i dont understand.
That is this:
"Put the gear shift drum and forks back together, and put the drive shaft back in the UPPER CRANKCASE. I then experimented with putting the lower crankcase back on top of the upper crankcase without any Threebond applied (a "dry" run), to make sure I could get the shift forks aligned with the gears properly with a minimum of fuss"

What i was planning to do was splitting the cases and then on reasemble putting shiftdrum shiftforks and outputshaft and mainshaft  (Everything) into the Lower case and then flip it over and lay it down ontop of the tophalf case.
Is that not possible?   i mean will the gears fall out when the case is held oppside down ? If so can i hold it in place with a temporary wire from the opening where the sump fitted?
in the description from the secondgear replacement guide it say put the driveshaft into upper case and then align the shiftforks with the gears in the lower case.Isthat the only way to do it?

[Urban_Legend]

Hi

I have had to split the cases on my 1200 motor, because of a starter clutch issue. I am trying to remember how I put the cases back together. From memory I had the gear clusters in the lower case. The important this to remember is there there is a locating pin on the end bearings of each gear cluster. Make sure they are in position before you put the cases back together. If the cases don't go together neatly, or ther is a slight gap, DO NOT do up the case bolts. It means one of these pins is not lined up.

Mark

Addit: If you can get it put onto a workbench or  something, it will make the job of assemble so much easier. Remember you have to flip the motor a few times to re assemble. If you can get someone to give you a lift maybe.

[Urban_Legend]

Here are some photos of the damage that a miss aligned locating pin can do (This is from my old motor that I replaced). And a simple trick to remember which bolt goes where. All the bolts are numbered on the crank case. I had two pieces of carb board , and numbered then in roughly the same locations of there the bolts were in the case. made it easy for reassembly.

Mark

[racerrad8]

Here is a similar topic from last week were I posted this below.

Randy - RPM

A couple of things.

Make sure the forks are installed correctly, you can get the centre on installed backwards.

Make sure the 1st gear on the shaft I sent is installed correctly, it to can easily be installed backwards.

I put the transmission in the bottom half of the case. That way you can index the dowels on the bearings into the holes in the bottom case. This will also allow you to engage the shift forks and ensure it shifts properly before installing.

Pull the crank seals now. The oe seals had a flange to prevent them from falling out while doing down the assembly line. They are easy to get out now, much more difficult when the halves are back together.

When installing the bolts, put some clean motor oil on the threads and under the head so they torque smoothly.

Randy - RPM

[Old Rider]

Hi

I have had to split the cases on my 1200 motor, because of a starter clutch issue. I am trying to remember how I put the cases back together. From memory I had the gear clusters in the lower case. The important this to remember is there there is a locating pin on the end bearings of each gear cluster. Make sure they are in position before you put the cases back together. If the cases don't go together neatly, or ther is a slight gap, DO NOT do up the case bolts. It means one of these pins is not lined up.

Mark

Addit: If you can get it put onto a workbench or  something, it will make the job of assemble so much easier. Remember you have to flip the motor a few times to re assemble. If you can get someone to give you a lift maybe.

Hi mark thanks for the helpful information i havent splitted the cases yet and trying to get as much information i can before i start.Putting the bolts into 2 carboards is a great idea! can you please send me the cardboards so i dont have too make my own ?  did you have trouble getting the cases too realese ? i read another tread here that it can be difficult.

[Old Rider]

Here is a similar topic from last week were I posted this below.

Randy - RPM

A couple of things.

Make sure the forks are installed correctly, you can get the centre on installed backwards.

Make sure the 1st gear on the shaft I sent is installed correctly, it to can easily be installed backwards.

I put the transmission in the bottom half of the case. That way you can index the dowels on the bearings into the holes in the bottom case. This will also allow you to engage the shift forks and ensure it shifts properly before installing.

Pull the crank seals now. The oe seals had a flange to prevent them from falling out while doing down the assembly line. They are easy to get out now, much more difficult when the halves are back together.

When installing the bolts, put some clean motor oil on the threads and under the head so they torque smoothly.

Randy - RPM

Hi randy i read that tread very helpful also have read another post from you about the first gear that the groved ring outside the gear have to face away from centre of engine.
About the cranseals.. do they have to replaced ? are the new  seals without the flange and if do i have to use high temp silicone like yamabond or threebond on them when reasemble?
Is there a way to identify the shiftforks if they are before or after 1988 ? i bought a used transmision from ebay that supposed to come from a 1992 or 1994 fj1200 ABS.i suspect that transmission is not so good mayby worn.The previus owner of my bike had done some transmission work i dont know what.

[Urban_Legend]

Hi. If everything has been removed or undone then the cases should nearly fall apart. Anything more that a light tap with a rubber mallet, then you have missed something.
The sequence for splitting the cases. It will require flipping the motor a few times
1. Remove the clutch assembly
2. Remove the oil pump (drive cog removed first)
3. Flip motor, remove the sump and oil pick ups.
Now you have a flat base
4. Flip again. There is a number next to each bolt. Remove starting at 27(i think) and work down through the numbers, placing them in the cardboard as you go.
When the top is done, last flip and do the ones on the bottom. Now with a gentle tap the cases should come apart.
Mark

[Urban_Legend]

Oops i missed a step between 2 and 3. we will call it 2.5 - There is a bearing keeper that crosses the 2 halves of the case, around the clutch sharft. You will need torq keys for this one.

Mark

[Pat Conlon]

Mark, thank you, this is some good stuff...PM sent.

[Old Rider]

Oops i missed a step between 2 and 3. we will call it 2.5 - There is a bearing keeper that crosses the 2 halves of the case, around the clutch sharft. You will need torq keys for this one.

Mark

Thanks Mark i have made the cardboards ready and now I'm going down to may garage to start the work.I'm still a little confused when i look in the workshop manual which i know have some mistakes when it comes to torque specs.I know about the drainplug and the clutchcover bolts are listed wrong but yesterday i found something confusing.It is the torque of the crankcase bolts, first it says 12 NM on some of the bolts but another place in the manual it says 10 NM on the same bolts.
My plan at first on reassemble was to put the transmission with the shiftforks into lower half then flip it over and put it onto the upperhalf ,but i think the transmission then will fall out .
I was planning  to not remove the head and cylinders from upper half but as it seems now i can not do the job the way i wanted because the transmission will fall out when lower case held upsidedown.(if not the bearingretainer can be partly mounted to keep it in place ? )
if i have to put the upperhalf with the head and cylinders mounted down onto lower half it is going to be to heavy to do it with control so i think i will take off the head and cylinders.

[Urban_Legend]

I had the advantage of two people when i did mine. You are right about the gears falling out if you try to flip the lower case on the the upper. It is a heavy lump of a motor.
The gear clusters actually have to be in the lower half of the case for the shift forks. It is impossible to line the shift forks properly if you have the clusters in the top case.
Which book are you using for the torque specs? I used the Haynes version. Also what motor are you tinkering with. It does make a difference. Like with the bolts. the 1100 has a bolt 24 and the 1200 does not (but the number is still on the case for it.) The bolts have a relatively low torque rating as you are screwing them into alloy. Also remember some not all of the bolts are the same thickness. lower torques for the skinny ones.

Is there someone you can rope into giving you a hand with the heavy lifting? wife/girlfriend/partner, good friend, neighbour, arsehole down the road.....anyone?
Where are you located in the world?

Mark

[Urban_Legend]

Torque specs out of the Haynes bible. On the M6 bolts (skinny ones) it is 10nm on yours up to 1990 and 12nm on 91 on.

[Old Rider]

I had the advantage of two people when i did mine. You are right about the gears falling out if you try to flip the lower case on the the upper. It is a heavy lump of a motor.
The gear clusters actually have to be in the lower half of the case for the shift forks. It is impossible to line the shift forks properly if you have the clusters in the top case.
Which book are you using for the torque specs? I used the Haynes version. Also what motor are you tinkering with. It does make a difference. Like with the bolts. the 1100 has a bolt 24 and the 1200 does not (but the number is still on the case for it.) The bolts have a relatively low torque rating as you are screwing them into alloy. Also remember some not all of the bolts are the same thickness. lower torques for the skinny ones.

Is there someone you can rope into giving you a hand with the heavy lifting? wife/girlfriend/partner, good friend, neighbour, arsehole down the road.....anyone?
Where are you located in the world?

Mark

Hi mark Very nice of you helping. Im using the yamaha fj1100 L fj1100 LC GYSM service manual its from 1984. I will buy the Haynes manual i used haynes manuals for  other bikes and cars  i worked on and i think its a great manual not without faults but okay .Thanks for clearifying on the torque specs.My engine is a 1TX from 86.
Today the work on the engine stopped quite fast because after removed the camchafts starting to losen up the 12 cylinderheadnuts one of them was stuck did not want to use to much force and mayby break off the stud as i could feel it twisting.I dont have a torch burner right now so i could not heat it.Instead i made a hole in the top of the nut it is really soft and filled with wd-40 will let it work some hours and try then.I  hope the cylinders will come off easy but i see some of the studs are rusty and the plastic sleave on them is rippled.
I will also replace the starterchain while im there so i guess i will order stuff from Randy RPM im really satisfied with the service they give.I live in Norway right on the other side of eart from you.

[Urban_Legend]

A major tear down job.
You've lost me on help there. I can nearly slpit the cases with my eyes closed, but I left all the top end together.
This all started off because of a noise in the motor?
The main thing that makes noises (rattling and clanking) in these motors is the starter chain (Not the cam chain)
RPM and do a kit with all of the bits you will need for splitting the cases ("O" Rings and gaskets etc.) at a very reasonable price.
If you are going so far as to do a tolal strip down, you might as well do valve guides, piston rings, bearings and give the bores a hone.

Mark

[Old Rider]

A major tear down job.
You've lost me on help there. I can nearly slpit the cases with my eyes closed, but I left all the top end together.
This all started off because of a noise in the motor?
The main thing that makes noises (rattling and clanking) in these motors is the starter chain (Not the cam chain)
RPM and do a kit with all of the bits you will need for splitting the cases ("O" Rings and gaskets etc.) at a very reasonable price.
If you are going so far as to do a tolal strip down, you might as well do valve guides, piston rings, bearings and give the bores a hone.

Mark

It started because of the noise in engine i know about the starterchain noise i had that on my fj1100 30 years ago.I also got the startercahin noise on this bike .I also had it on other bikes this is different and the sound has gotten worse lately.Early this summer i tok the bike to the Yamaha dealer and spoke with a mechanic he was not sure what is was so he told me to speak with the senior chef mechanic who had lot of experience.I did and he tok the bike for a little ride and then he told me it was probably the camchain tensioner.My teory is that the bearing nearest the outputshaft sprocket  is broken.I told him but he says i could forget about that.So then i replaced the the camcahain and tensioner .
I was first planning to not take the head and cylinders off but then i realise that i had to if i want to replace the starterchain also handling the engine carrying it down into my cellar
is to heavy .Here is a little update : got the stubborn nut of and the head off it was some trouble getting the head off the cylinders i did not get of so i have primed the studs with the god old wd-40 and give it a try today.Here are some pics