FJowners.com

First a quote from David Raforth on the Blip (flick) test:

"If you rev the engine and it slowly returns to idle, you are too rich.
If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."

I have changed my IM's and torqued them roughly to spec, 86.4 in lbs, more like 90 in lbs, and I'm still having problems with a faster idle after taking her out on the road, under load, for a short time, but she does purrr more evenly now.  

So I was thinking, my Morgans Carbtune II Pro is showing me vacuum readings in real time, much like a colortune does (real time) except that it indicates fuel/air mixture, via color of burn, yellow/orange = rich and blue/white = lean, which is in fact consistent with burning fuels, either gas or liquid. From Yellow to just Blue would seem to be optimum, for an ICE.

As I hold the throttle and 'flick' my wrist I notice that sometimes the metal indicators of the carbtune take a dive, each individual cylinder/carb at different rates, down, showing a loss of vacuum, overall, then recover to a higher position, up, than what they were at idle, finally corresponding to the increased RPM's.

So I was thinking that it's possible that their dive corresponds to the part of Davids quote above that I've bolded. He says: "If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."  So could my manometer be indicating this drop due to the 4 pilot screws settings, indicating the direction in which they must be turned, each carb individually, thus taking some guesswork out of adjusting them?  The ones that lead the way down are definitely lean, while the ones that resist, don't go down as readily, are either less lean, correct, or rich.

To me, this makes perfect sense, that the variance of dive in each individual vacuum tube of the manometer corresponds to Davids dive, indicating lean.  I mean, shouldn't a properly tuned/balanced set of carbs, vacuum, only ever immediately rise from their value at idle, seamlessly?

So does the manometer's individual cylinder/carb indicators direction of movement and rate of travel indicate fuel/air adjustment needs, as well as carb idle speed sync (when they are at the same level)?

Randy?  Anyone?


FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

What you are seeing when you blip the throttle is a result of the throttle plate opening.  The vacuum you are reading on the Morgan is on the engine side of the throttle plate.  The more closed the plate, the higher the vacuum reading will be.  When you quickly open (blip) the throttle, you're seeing an instantaneous drop in the vacuum as the plate allows more air into the intake.

When the plate snaps shut, you then see the vacuum spike.  The vacuum spike from the plate snapping shut is what sucks the mercury out of regular manometer gauges.

I wouldn't pay much attention to reading the results on the blip test as lean or rich.  There was a good discussion recently of the idle circuit.  Changing the position of the idle mixture screws either adds or decreases the amount of the idle circuit air fuel mixture being allowed in the intake.  The idle and air pilot jet sizes determines whether this mixture is lean or rich.

The important thing to do is experiment with the screws.  Move the mixture screws and continue doing the blip test.  You should be able to find a sweet spot.  Or, you may start out at the sweet spot so adjust both ways and verify it.

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 02:27:14 PM
What you are seeing when you blip the throttle is a result of the throttle plate opening.  The vacuum you are reading on the Morgan is on the engine side of the throttle plate.  The more closed the plate, the higher the vacuum reading will be.  When you quickly open (blip) the throttle, you're seeing an instantaneous drop in the vacuum as the plate allows more air into the intake.

When the plate snaps shut, you then see the vacuum spike.  The vacuum spike from the plate snapping shut is what sucks the mercury out of regular manometer gauges.

I wouldn't pay much attention to reading the results on the blip test as lean or rich.  There was a good discussion recently of the idle circuit.  Changing the position of the idle mixture screws either adds or decreases the amount of the idle circuit air fuel mixture being allowed in the intake.  The idle and air pilot jet sizes determines whether this mixture is lean or rich.

The important thing to do is experiment with the screws.  Move the mixture screws and continue doing the blip test.  You should be able to find a sweet spot.  Or, you may start out at the sweet spot so adjust both ways and verify it.

I shall put it to the test just the same.  Remember that specifically I'm referring to the differences in movement of each indicator, that happen only for a brief moment, then they all equalize. Obviously they differ for a specific reason, so if not the pilot circuits lack of sync, what?  Even if it's due to varying butterfly position, it still could be an indicator of the pilot circuit imbalance, between carbs, as the butterfly's adjusted position, sync setting, of varying openings, is directly proportional to many things, one being the pilot screw setting.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo

The idle fuel mixture has nothing to do with the vacuum you're seeing.  That's determined by the angle of the throttle plate.

The difference in movement of the steel rod in the Morgan is due to slightly different clearance fit of the rod in the bushing.  Have you taken the Morgan apart and cleaned/polished the rods?  I do that periodically, but it's just to help prevent one from sticking and giving a false reading.

The brief transient behavior of the gauge and any difference in movement between the cylinders as you blip the throttle indicates nothing except that the intake vacuum has changed.  With the restrictors, the gauge is designed to give a very overdamped reading of the average vacuum of an individual cylinder.  Any differences in vacuum are far more influenced by potential differences in valve clearances than mixture.  

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 03:35:36 PM
The idle fuel mixture has nothing to do with the vacuum you're seeing.  That's determined by the angle of the throttle plate.

The difference in movement of the steel rod in the Morgan is due to slightly different clearance fit of the rod in the bushing.  Have you taken the Morgan apart and cleaned/polished the rods?  I do that periodically, but it's just to help prevent one from sticking and giving a false reading.

The brief transient behavior of the gauge and any difference in movement between the cylinders as you blip the throttle indicates nothing except that the intake vacuum has changed.  With the restrictors, the gauge is designed to give a very overdamped reading of the average vacuum of an individual cylinder.  Any differences in vacuum are far more influenced by potential differences in valve clearances than mixture.  

My Morgan Cartune II Pro is brand new, 5 years ago, this is the first time I've ever used it, it's been in it's case since I purchased it. So there is no reason to clean it at this point.

Thanks for the rest, because that's what I like to hear, something I can sink my teeth into.  I guess You've figured by now, that I prefer to understand things, before proceeding, I hardly ever take peoples directions to do something, unless they tell me their rationalization behind it.  I had the same problem in college, I either understood 100% of what the professor was saying or I didn't allow it access to my memory banks.  needless to say my hand was raised more often than not, OK, a slight exaggeration, but I did ask a lot of questions.  You know what they say about computers right? "Garbage in, garbage out."  Thanks for expounding.

Also I really liked the part you said that I bolded above, because it shows you're a thinking person that considers that which may not yet be known.  That makes you a wise man. ;)  Something I try to do, to cover all the bases, though I'm still a work in progress, aren't we all. ;)


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo


P.S. I'm still going to watch the gauge as I adjust the pilot screws, to check for any correlation whatsoever.   :lol:  Never take anything I say as personal Hooli, never!!  As it's surely never meant that way.  I just like to stir things up, so people are sitting on the edge of their seat, usually the blood in their brains is circulating faster when they're on the precipice. ;)

Again, thanks for your time!  It's always appreciated!

Remember that it is a four cylinder four stroke engine so that at any given time only one cylinder will be "creating" a vacuum. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow was how it was taught to me back in my yoof! Each cylinder will have to perform that sequence several times in order for an average vacuum to establish itself.

One more thing, I am DEFINITELY buying a colortune as soon as I can, because to be honest, this non reliable method of adjusting the pilot screws is driving me crazy.  I can't stand the thought of not knowing what I'm doing, a shot in the dark, trying to balance not overheating the engine, and then I bought some fuel line that, while it can withstand any fuel up to 100% ethanol it kinks easily, so that using my tank backwards/sideways as a temp tank is precarious at best, I've almost dropped it several times due to vibration of the bike, while ensuring there are no kinks, so I can do the damn sync.  It's just far too much a pain in the ass considering so far I haven't got it right. just to test ride then do it all over again.  I desperately need a vehicle to get my wife to work, or we're royally screwed.  I'm fast approaching loosing my home, we had absolutely no liquidity going into this car-less scenario.  I just wish I could find someones step by step process that ensured results every time, because, RIGHT NOW, I want to be sure that we can get to work to keep our house.

Thanks man, I really appreciate your time, and ears, or is that eyes, my friend!  I'm seriously stressing, under the fucking gun, chopping block, etc.  Gonna have a damn stroke or a myocardial infarction.


FJ Forever!   :drinks: (I think)

JoBrCo      

Quote from: Dogsbestfriend on September 21, 2014, 04:23:42 PM
Remember that it is a four cylinder four stroke engine so that at any given time only one cylinder will be "creating" a vacuum. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow was how it was taught to me back in my yoof! Each cylinder will have to perform that sequence several times in order for an average vacuum to establish itself.

Yeah, I learned it as Intake, Compression, Power, and Exhaust, for a 4 stroke.  And I'm sure Hooli is right about the valves, this bike has been sitting in moth balls (no, not literally) for 19 years, so I'm sure some compression and expansion of various parts due to atmospheric conditions (winter, spring, summer and fall) have caused things to be a bit different that she was 19 years ago.  So far a guess I can't complain, as most of her still works, all electrical items seem OK for now.

Thanks for your input!


FJ Forever!   :drinks: (i think)


JoBrCo

None of what you're worrying about is all that critical.  If it was, my FJ (and thousands of others) would be trash.  They're not so whatever non-scientifically exact processes we're following are working.

If you're in as much trouble as you claim, then stop wasting your time and get it close enough for you to use to get you through your current situation.  It may not be perfect but it will be good enough to get you to work and back.  Once your situation improves enough then you can go back to getting that last 0.0001% you're worrying about.

As far as the valves are concerned, as long as you have decent compression and no loud valve tapping, then they are probably good enough to use for many thousands of miles.  They did not somehow spontaneously degrade from 19 years of sitting under a tarp.  If anything some of the valve springs may be a bit fatigued from being compressed for that long so I would keep it away from redline.

Get the thing running and ride it!  Don't let a half turn on an idle mixture screw cost you your house.  Set them at 3 turns out and move on!

Also, you can make a temporary fuel tank.  I use an old lawnmower tank that I hang from my garage door rails with coat hangers.

Eloquently stated Hooligan.  :good:

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 07:29:58 PM
None of what you're worrying about is all that critical.  If it was, my FJ (and thousands of others) would be trash.

Finally, someone that is actually helping me, it's about time!!!  This is what I need, understand that it hasn't just been my bike in moth balls for 19 years.  All I've been doing for my Honda Civic was changing the oil and filter.  Though I did change the timing belt, water pump, a few oil seals as well as the rest of the belts in 2009 @ 115,000 miles as required, and in 2005 I changed it's McPherson Struts, (Honda made a boo boo on the 2001 Civic, the struts were not beefy enough, their replacements are still great, well up until the head gasket died anyway.)  A lot of you guys, I'm sure, eat, sleep and breath automotive's, at least for bikes.  I've been counting on someone or a lot of someone's to direct me as to what they'd do in my situation, i.e., resurrecting an 85 FJ1100.  I've been counting on you guys to know what the hell is up, with my quest, assuming that some of you have already "been there and done that." What you think is important, what your priority list would be, what I can get away with, where I should be concerned, etc.  Thing's that someone like me in what is now a very tight spot should consider.  I figured a lot of you guys are old enough, like me, but quite possibly better versed in the proper FJ resurrection considerations/techniques, than I am. Actually that wouldn't take much at all! When it comes to bike maintenance, in the past, I've always paid to have a shop do the work, I was in the US Navy then and had a little spare money.

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 07:29:58 PMIf you're in as much trouble as you claim, then stop wasting your time and get it close enough for you to use to get you through your current situation.  It may not be perfect but it will be good enough to get you to work and back.  Once your situation improves enough then you can go back to getting that last 0.0001% you're worrying about.

I am, both in that much trouble, and doing something about it, every single day, no time has been wasted here at all.  I've either been working on it, waiting on money to be made, ordering parts online (as cheap as possible), waiting for the parts, installing them, doing research on that which I can think of that I need to consider, then doing it all over again, every since I started this project, even when it wasn't a necessity, when it was just a hobby. I started this back on June 27 2014, you're witnessing the speed at which my limitations allow me to proceed and nothing more.
 

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 07:29:58 PMAs far as the valves are concerned, as long as you have decent compression and no loud valve tapping, then they are probably good enough to use for many thousands of miles. They did not somehow spontaneously degrade from 19 years of sitting under a tarp.  If anything some of the valve springs may be a bit fatigued from being compressed for that long so I would keep it away from redline.

More great stuff, thanks!  Wouldn't you know it, my compression tester doesn't have a 12mm adapter, it's a sunpro.  I do have a sunpro induction timing light that should work on the bike.  Not a tach though.  I do have a couple older needle type tachs for cars that are probably out of calibration by now.  I need to get a good digital tach.

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 07:29:58 PMGet the thing running and ride it!  Don't let a half turn on an idle mixture screw cost you your house.  Set them at 3 turns out and move on!

Today I finally had the balls enough to drive it 25 miles one way, to my wife's work, outside the mass transit loop, and I actually got it up to 85 MPH.  I also downshifted two gears and nailed it once, tached it to about 6-7 grand, then abruptly let off the throttle for some engine braking, to tug on the rings hard in the other direction, as per someones recommendation.  Remember that I'm being cautious because I have no real resources, If the bike had died on the road, I probably would too, as there is absolutely no way I'm leaving it anywhere, so I'd do as I did when I was young and healthy, push it home.  I have no local friends to count on at all, I'm practically a hermit, I have a F-150 that's been down for  about 8 to 9 years, because it's an '89 and the gasohol killed the fuel system.  I wish I could sue the government for the cost of it's resurrection.  It's gonna need at least one new tank, only one is metal, I think the plastic tank is OK.  Three new fuel pumps, and new fuel lines, at the very least. I'm sure the wheel bearings are flattened, the tires are probably shot, and I know it needs a new battery. Oh my plan is to never get stuck with my pants down again, and make damned sure all my vehicles are running, this has been a lesson indeed, that it's not always about not being able to afford to repair my vehicles, rather I can't afford not too.    

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 07:29:58 PMAlso, you can make a temporary fuel tank.  I use an old lawnmower tank that I hang from my garage door rails with coat hangers.

Yeah I know, someone else mentioned that as well, but I don't have a spare lying around.  I actually looked online for some cheap replacement lawn mower tanks, but they were a bit too expensive for me right now, other priorities.

The good thing is that I have two brand new tires now, no more 19+ year old cracked rubber, new sprockets, the hardest DID chain made, can be used on 1400's, not endless, riveted! The front brakes are really good with the EBC Sintered copper pads, both caliper and master rebuilds, but I am worried about the sight window in both the clutch and front brake masters, because they look like a very old Rembrandt or maybe Michael Angelo painting, with all the cracks in the paint, except we're talking about a little plastic window, that I've been careful not to touch for fear it shall shatter into a million pieces.  Do you think I could take some clear setting two part epoxy and fill up the sight window recess, until it's flush with the outer aluminum lip, the epoxy would be at least 1/8" thick, who really cares if I can see the fluid level from outside, or if there is a bubble or two, it's just two screws to check level, no problem.

My problem is resources, so What I really need from everybody here, that cares to help, is their "sound ideas" that they would consider if they found themselves in my exact same pair of shoes.  Like I mentioned above.  Priorities would have been great from the beginning, up till now you guys seemed to have been tight lipped as to these things that I really need to hear, so I don't kill my wife and I trying to keep the house.  Our lives are more important that the house, of course.

For instance I had no idea that the fuel/air mixture screw was of no real importance, today finally, news to me, thanks again!  I had visions of burning her up if she was too lean.  She's too important to me right now, can you see the dichotomy?  I got to proceed with caution because she's the only hope I have, but I need her, "last month."  Rock and a hard spot indeed!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 21, 2014, 01:07:04 PM
"If you rev the engine and it slowly returns to idle, you are too rich.
If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."

I do believe that you have this backwards.....................

If you blip the throttle, and it hangs up high then slowly returns down to idle speed, you are too LEAN.

If you blip the throttle, and it dips below idle speed, then returns back up to idle speed, you are too RICH.

Just making sure you are heading in the right direction. :drinks:

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 22, 2014, 08:36:08 AM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 21, 2014, 01:07:04 PM
"If you rev the engine and it slowly returns to idle, you are too rich.
If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."

I do believe that you have this backwards.....................

If you blip the throttle, and it hangs up high then slowly returns down to idle speed, you are too LEAN.

If you blip the throttle, and it dips below idle speed, then returns back up to idle speed, you are too RICH.

Just making sure you are heading in the right direction. :drinks:

Agreed!  Lean hangs up, rich dips and recovers (or dies if it's real rich!)

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 22, 2014, 08:36:08 AM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 21, 2014, 01:07:04 PM
"If you rev the engine and it slowly returns to idle, you are too rich.
If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."

I do believe that you have this backwards.....................

If you blip the throttle, and it hangs up high then slowly returns down to idle speed, you are too LEAN.

If you blip the throttle, and it dips below idle speed, then returns back up to idle speed, you are too RICH.

Just making sure you are heading in the right direction. :drinks:

I appreciate anything you take the time to say, right or wrong, because you took the time to say it.  As always when it comes to final analysis, I take "ALL" the ideas/evidence into consideration, assuming the majority is "probably" correct, then watch closely as I implement, looking for further evidence as verification.

But...

That was a direct quote, "cut and pasted" from David Raforth's (carb guru, there is actually a wiki containing his quotes), carb cleaning guide, in the files section on this site, so your beef is with him.  It seems that most people take his words for granted. I do know he's been around for a long while, though I haven't seen him lately, I hope he's doing well, he's helped a lot of people.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Here it is again a cut and paste from the PDF HERE (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=655.0)
It's titled carb cleaning.pdf.  The blip test is almost all the way to the bottom of the doc.  Second to last page, third paragraph from the bottom of the page.


"If you rev the engine and it slowly returns to idle, you are too rich.
If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."

Quote from: fj1289 on September 22, 2014, 08:56:53 AM

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 22, 2014, 08:36:08 AM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 21, 2014, 01:07:04 PM
"If you rev the engine and it slowly returns to idle, you are too rich.
If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."

I do believe that you have this backwards.....................

If you blip the throttle, and it hangs up high then slowly returns down to idle speed, you are too LEAN.

If you blip the throttle, and it dips below idle speed, then returns back up to idle speed, you are too RICH.

Just making sure you are heading in the right direction. :drinks:

Agreed!  Lean hangs up, rich dips and recovers (or dies if it's real rich!)

Well if that's true, either Davids PDF should be edited, or deleted, as the files section is somewhat of a foundation for those that want to maintain their bikes.  Maybe no one has visited his PDF for a while to know that it has a error.  Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Again, thanks for your time!

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo   

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 21, 2014, 07:29:58 PM
 If anything some of the valve springs may be a bit fatigued from being compressed for that long so I would keep it away from redline.

So you think I should replace the valve springs?  I read on another forum that one can replace both the valve springs and seals with the head in place, by simply ensuring the cylinder, one is working on, has it's piston at top dead center, thus only allowing the valve to drop until it rests on the piston.  It then can easily be pulled back up in order to compress the springs and secure the valve stem locks. However with the FJ's head/valve stem/shim design, I don't think it can be done, correct?  Head removal and gasket replacement, is required, correct?

TIA

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo 

Just ride the fucker....

What Pat said!  And if it's going to be your primary transportation, don't be bouncing it off of the rev limiter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier about in and out on the the idle mixture screws being lean or rich:  

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

If you turn them one way and get one of the symptoms then TURN THEM THE OTHER WAY!  Who cares whether you're actually leaning or richening the mixture.  You simply adjust out the symptom.  If it hangs at 2 turns and doesn't at 3 turns then you've made progress.  If it stumbles at 4 turns, then go back to 3.

This is no more complicated that an underinflated tire.  The cure is to add more air.

For the record, last time I paid attention I got the symptoms described in the cleaning document.  Too far in and the revs will fall down, too far out and it will hang.  Your results will vary depending on you're idle circuit jetting.  

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 22, 2014, 02:45:33 PM
Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.  You know what?  You're right.  Forget everything I've said.  It's all bullshiit.  But I was riding my FJ all weekend and you weren't.  Maybe if you'd spend more time DOING what has been suggested instead of planted in front of your computer ranting on whether something is right or wrong, maybe you could convince yourself by a little experimentation of your own. 

Let's try a different path.  INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

If you want to question something, then fine do it.  BUT ONLY AFTER YOU TRY IT.  The advice available on this site has been successfully implemented by countless owners.  Try being a member of that group.  If it doesn't work for you, then post up and we will try to help figure out why you're the ONLY one it doesn't work for.  Deal?

Yes, that was a direct quote - noticed that last night and am glad someone else pointed out the error too.  Yes Dr Raforth is the carb guru.  I firstearned of the blip test from him back on the Yahoo list.  Don't know if the paper was retyped or he made a single simple mistake in the 9 page write up.   I seem to remember reading part of a discussion that they couldn't edit the doc - and the pics had to be posted separately too when it was moved over from the Yahoo site.  To insure I wasn't passing bad info I googled it last night and found several examples to support lean hangs up above idle and rich drops below idle. 

That's also why I described a technique so you can find the best setting no matter which "camp" is right or wrong - and learn first hand how the adjustment effect things. 

I certainly don't have any beef with anyone........................I prefer Bacon!

I was simply pointing out that the info you posted in your thread was backwards...............

I definately would not discredit David R.
Personally, I have read much of his advice over the years on this forum, and he could very well be the most knowledgable person when it comes to CV carbs.
I would definately go to him for advice if needed............

With that said, I am sure it is possible for someone to make a mistake while transposing information................and to have written it backwards.........If it was David himself, I am sure he was thinking the correct thing in his mind, but wrote the incorrect one instead................I've been guilty of that myself numerous times over the years. :flag_of_truce:
Also, I wouldn't believe anything in a "Wiki" as being gospel unless I verified it with an accurate source.................."Wiki's" are pages that anybody, and anybody's brother can post/add information to without it being verified by anyone as being accurate..........

A whole bunch of people have given you a lot of useful information here........................One of the reasons I love this forum so much..................There are always people who are willing to step in and share their knowledge........................You have been given great advice.(my favorites in this thread so far are Pat, and FJ Hooligan).

Anyway, here's a helpful link if you haven't seen it already...............(especially step#4)http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html (http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html)

I am really hoping you get your FJ sorted out...................And your life for that matter...........................Noone likes to hear of a fellow comrade who may or may not be having to make life decisions based on whether or not they can make it to their source of income, or having to juggle making a house payment or feeding themselves...........
I hope things turn around for you................And maybe you'll see us all at a rally some day. :drinks:

JBC, Hooligan has spent a lot of time and done a great job offering information and guidance.

However, Pat's summary offers the best advice.

If you are in dire trouble and just need transport to solve your current woes, just ride it.

If it starts, runs on 4 cylinders and idles, that's all it needs to do at the moment, you can't hurt anything if the tune is not perfect.

You do not need, I repeat, do not need new valve springs, now or in the future, move on.

I have the skills, experience and tools to have my bike running at 100%, but it never is because chasing that last bit of perfect tune takes a disproportionate amount of time and I'm just not interested.

Regarding your "Finally, someone is actually tying to help me, it's about time!!!!", comment, everyone has been trying to help you.

Just ride it and worry about fine tuning it when it's fun, not out of necessity.
Noel

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 22, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 22, 2014, 04:04:11 PM
What Pat said!  And if it's going to be your primary transportation, don't be bouncing it off of the rev limiter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier about in and out on the the idle mixture screws being lean or rich:  

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

If you turn them one way and get one of the symptoms then TURN THEM THE OTHER WAY!  Who cares whether you're actually leaning or richening the mixture.  You simply adjust out the symptom.  If it hangs at 2 turns and doesn't at 3 turns then you've made progress.  If it stumbles at 4 turns, then go back to 3.

This is no more complicated that an underinflated tire.  The cure is to add more air.

For the record, last time I paid attention I got the symptoms described in the cleaning document.  Too far in and the revs will fall down, too far out and it will hang.  Your results will vary depending on you're idle circuit jetting.  

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 22, 2014, 02:45:33 PM
Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.  You know what?  You're right.  Forget everything I've said.  It's all bullshiit.  But I was riding my FJ all weekend and you weren't.  Maybe if you'd spend more time DOING what has been suggested instead of planted in front of your computer ranting on whether something is right or wrong, maybe you could convince yourself by a little experimentation of your own. 

Let's try a different path.  INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

If you want to question something, then fine do it.  BUT ONLY AFTER YOU TRY IT.  The advice available on this site has been successfully implemented by countless owners.  Try being a member of that group.  If it doesn't work for you, then post up and we will try to help figure out why you're the ONLY one it doesn't work for.  Deal?

+1 Well said and long overdue.

Joe

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 22, 2014, 04:04:11 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 22, 2014, 02:45:33 PM
Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.

And now it's time for your slap, pay fucking attention, OBVIOUSLY, I was talking to the firebird and fj9669 for taking on David Raforth's PDF.  David was the man, giving much time and effort to help people in those earlier days, which doesn't mean he can't be wrong, but those two spoke to me as if it was my screw up, if it was in fact a screw up, either way it was Davids, not mine.  Don't shoot the fucking messenger.  So those two should also 'read' before pointing fingers at someone.  I'll not accept reprimand for another's screw up.

Capeesh?

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 22, 2014, 07:40:33 PM
I certainly don't have any beef with anyone........................I prefer Bacon!

I was simply pointing out that the info you posted in your thread was backwards...............

I definately would not discredit David R.
Personally, I have read much of his advice over the years on this forum, and he could very well be the most knowledgable person when it comes to CV carbs.
I would definately go to him for advice if needed............

With that said, I am sure it is possible for someone to make a mistake while transposing information................and to have written it backwards.........If it was David himself, I am sure he was thinking the correct thing in his mind, but wrote the incorrect one instead................I've been guilty of that myself numerous times over the years. :flag_of_truce:
Also, I wouldn't believe anything in a "Wiki" as being gospel unless I verified it with an accurate source.................."Wiki's" are pages that anybody, and anybody's brother can post/add information to without it being verified by anyone as being accurate..........

A whole bunch of people have given you a lot of useful information here........................One of the reasons I love this forum so much..................There are always people who are willing to step in and share their knowledge........................You have been given great advice.(my favorites in this thread so far are Pat, and FJ Hooligan).

Anyway, here's a helpful link if you haven't seen it already...............(especially step#4)http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html (http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html)

I am really hoping you get your FJ sorted out...................And your life for that matter...........................Noone likes to hear of a fellow comrade who may or may not be having to make life decisions based on whether or not they can make it to their source of income, or having to juggle making a house payment or feeding themselves...........
I hope things turn around for you................And maybe you'll see us all at a rally some day. :drinks:

Thanks for the link, it looks like a great resource.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 22, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Just ride the fucker....

Watch it!  Maybe yours is a fucker, but mine's a fuckee!

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: ribbert on September 23, 2014, 07:08:38 AM

Regarding your "Finally, someone is actually tying to help me, it's about time!!!!", comment, everyone has been trying to help you.

Noel

Rib don't be taking offense now, you've been great too, but I didn't mean across the board, all info, I specifically meant, that NO one has either mentioned what the priorities should be, when doing as I have been doing, nor pointed me to a resource that does so.  And at that moment, I realized that it should have been my first question, and the first bit of help offered.  But we're all getting old, aren't we?

What was my name again? Who are you? Where am I.  ;)

Who's accountable anyway?

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo   

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 07:45:59 AM

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 22, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

Which says more about you, than anyone else!

Quote from: Country Joe on September 23, 2014, 12:44:21 PM

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 22, 2014, 04:04:11 PM
What Pat said!  And if it's going to be your primary transportation, don't be bouncing it off of the rev limiter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier about in and out on the the idle mixture screws being lean or rich:  

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

If you turn them one way and get one of the symptoms then TURN THEM THE OTHER WAY!  Who cares whether you're actually leaning or richening the mixture.  You simply adjust out the symptom.  If it hangs at 2 turns and doesn't at 3 turns then you've made progress.  If it stumbles at 4 turns, then go back to 3.

This is no more complicated that an underinflated tire.  The cure is to add more air.

For the record, last time I paid attention I got the symptoms described in the cleaning document.  Too far in and the revs will fall down, too far out and it will hang.  Your results will vary depending on you're idle circuit jetting.  

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 22, 2014, 02:45:33 PM
Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.  You know what?  You're right.  Forget everything I've said.  It's all bullshiit.  But I was riding my FJ all weekend and you weren't.  Maybe if you'd spend more time DOING what has been suggested instead of planted in front of your computer ranting on whether something is right or wrong, maybe you could convince yourself by a little experimentation of your own.  

Let's try a different path.  INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

If you want to question something, then fine do it.  BUT ONLY AFTER YOU TRY IT.  The advice available on this site has been successfully implemented by countless owners.  Try being a member of that group.  If it doesn't work for you, then post up and we will try to help figure out why you're the ONLY one it doesn't work for.  Deal?

+1 Well said and long overdue.

Joe

And if that's all they got to say, choosing this particular moment to say it, then obviously it can only be understood that those fools shine on!

Why, one might ask?

"Bosses get talking so tough, and if that wasn't evil enough;
we get the drunkin and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride"

--Rush - Territories - Power Windows--

That's why!

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 23, 2014, 07:39:32 PM

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 07:45:59 AM

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 22, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

Which says more about you, than anyone else!

I'm sure you mean it says that I appreciate how Pat was able to express himself so eloquently and succinctly. Neil Peart couldn't have said it better himself!

 (popcorn)

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 09:25:46 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 23, 2014, 07:39:32 PM

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 07:45:59 AM

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 22, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

Which says more about you, than anyone else!

I'm sure you mean it says that I appreciate how Pat was able to express himself so eloquently and succinctly. Neil Peart couldn't have said it better himself!

I see, it wasn't about helping me, in this thread I started, asking for help, as much as it was about patting Pat on the back, got it!  Isn't this the first time you've tried to 'help' me?  If so, in my opinion there are in fact better ways to do so, which is in fact the topic of this thread, the need for help.

Somehow to my way of thinking...

"Just ride the fucker"

leaves much to be desired, in terms of actually conveying that one is concerned with helping someone, I would tend to call it 'crass' as opposed to eloquent, as that is in fact the first word that comes to mind, which in fact your intent seemed to convey as well.

The quote from Territories still stands as appropriate.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: Country Joe on September 23, 2014, 09:26:30 PM
(popcorn)

(popcorn) (popcorn)


FJ Forever!   :drinks:
Popcorn kernel hulls stuck between ones teeth, never! 


JoBrCo

I have to borrow a phrase from some Army SOF I had the priviledge of serving with:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you might not want to suck on its ass hard enough to make it internalize it"

Me thinks Pat's eloquent quote is simply he had already decided he didn't want to try anymore to facilitate the internalization process...me either

Good luck

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 23, 2014, 09:47:43 PM

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 09:25:46 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 23, 2014, 07:39:32 PM

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 07:45:59 AM

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 22, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

Which says more about you, than anyone else!

I'm sure you mean it says that I appreciate how Pat was able to express himself so eloquently and succinctly. Neil Peart couldn't have said it better himself!

I see, it wasn't about helping me, in this thread I started, asking for help, as much as it was about patting Pat on the back, got it!  Isn't this the first time you've tried to 'help' me?  If so, in my opinion there are in fact better ways to do so, which is in fact the topic of this thread, the need for help.

Somehow to my way of thinking...

"Just ride the fucker"

leaves much to be desired, in terms of actually conveying that one is concerned with helping someone, I would tend to call it 'crass' as opposed to eloquent, as that is in fact the first word that comes to mind, which in fact your intent seemed to convey as well.

The quote from Territories still stands as appropriate.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

+1 for post of the year for Pat...  Ride that damned thing and save your house.  I think that's the best advice you're going to get here in a nutshell.

Frank

PS - starting to look like you're here to stir shit rather than get your bike running...  many have failed with that approach.

Quote from: Flynt on September 24, 2014, 12:53:58 AM


PS - starting to look like you're here to stir shit rather than get your bike running...  many have failed with that approach.

JoBrCo, you're not the bloke from West Australia with the XJR, are you. If you're not, you sure are starting to sound like him.
   

Quote from: fj1289 on September 23, 2014, 11:49:33 PM
I have to borrow a phrase from some Army SOF I had the priviledge of serving with:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you might not want to suck on its ass hard enough to make it internalize it"

Me thinks Pat's eloquent quote is simply he had already decided he didn't want to try anymore to facilitate the internalization process...me either

Good luck

....or...borrow phrases from an another SOF with a cockortwo. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5)  :bye2:

Quote from: The General on September 24, 2014, 02:09:07 AM

Quote from: fj1289 on September 23, 2014, 11:49:33 PM
I have to borrow a phrase from some Army SOF I had the priviledge of serving with:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you might not want to suck on its ass hard enough to make it internalize it"

Me thinks Pat's eloquent quote is simply he had already decided he didn't want to try anymore to facilitate the internalization process...me either

Good luck

....or...borrow phrases from an another SOF with a cockortwo. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5)  :bye2:

:good2:

Quote from: fj1289 on September 23, 2014, 11:49:33 PM
I have to borrow a phrase from some Army SOF I had the priviledge of serving with:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you might not want to suck on its ass hard enough to make it internalize it"

Me thinks Pat's eloquent quote is simply he had already decided he didn't want to try anymore to facilitate the internalization process...me either

Good luck

Yes some people do believe that helping people is a bother, those are never really in it for anyone other than themselves in the first place, but in truth you should speak only for yourself, Pat is perfectly capable on his own.  The ploy though is a very common one with groupism and cronyism.

Thanks for your help my friend, you're well on your way to the kingdom of heaven.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: Flynt on September 24, 2014, 12:53:58 AM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 23, 2014, 09:47:43 PM

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 09:25:46 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 23, 2014, 07:39:32 PM

Quote from: Zwartie on September 23, 2014, 07:45:59 AM

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 22, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

Which says more about you, than anyone else!

I'm sure you mean it says that I appreciate how Pat was able to express himself so eloquently and succinctly. Neil Peart couldn't have said it better himself!

I see, it wasn't about helping me, in this thread I started, asking for help, as much as it was about patting Pat on the back, got it!  Isn't this the first time you've tried to 'help' me?  If so, in my opinion there are in fact better ways to do so, which is in fact the topic of this thread, the need for help.

Somehow to my way of thinking...

"Just ride the fucker"

leaves much to be desired, in terms of actually conveying that one is concerned with helping someone, I would tend to call it 'crass' as opposed to eloquent, as that is in fact the first word that comes to mind, which in fact your intent seemed to convey as well.

The quote from Territories still stands as appropriate.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

+1 for post of the year for Pat...  Ride that damned thing and save your house.  I think that's the best advice you're going to get here in a nutshell.

Frank

PS - starting to look like you're here to stir shit rather than get your bike running...  many have failed with that approach.

Sorry you feel that way Frank, I originally thought you were one of the intelligent ones here, and could easily see when someone was simply DEFENDING themselves against naysayers. I thought you would be well above groupism and cronyism, supporting the misunderstood newbie in the name of whats right.  Like I've already said I've suffered from PTSD since the age of 4, and from Anxiety, though it would seem that many here have no idea what that means in terms of social situations where I'm attacked.  I can't seem to let it go, because at this point in my life, I'm sick of it.  My VA psychologist said that at 4 my brain was actually changed, so that It works differently that others, save those that have experienced the same thing.  I think it's a good thing that people kick the afflicted, when they're down, it shows them for what they really are.

When people, involved in groupism stop poking me with a stick, I'll stop DEFENDING myself, likewise!

Thanks for your help, my friend!  Or is that ex-friend, your call!

FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo

If only it weren't for the vultures of groupism and cronyism, everyone would understand happiness and love more readily.

Quote from: oldktmdude on September 24, 2014, 01:44:40 AM

Quote from: Flynt on September 24, 2014, 12:53:58 AM


PS - starting to look like you're here to stir shit rather than get your bike running...  many have failed with that approach.

JoBrCo, you're not the bloke from West Australia with the XJR, are you. If you're not, you sure are starting to sound like him.
   

Well maybe that's just the ears of groupism and cronyism, your call! You're part of an already established group, while I'm the newbie here, just looking for the help of those that care to!  I'm just not anyone's plaything.

I think you guys should REALLY give it to me, my wife deserves it, way to treat a woman guys!  But ones self pride affected by groupism and cronyism is definitely more important.


FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Can you guys say, "MOB!"

Quote from: The General on September 24, 2014, 02:09:07 AM

Quote from: fj1289 on September 23, 2014, 11:49:33 PM
I have to borrow a phrase from some Army SOF I had the priviledge of serving with:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you might not want to suck on its ass hard enough to make it internalize it"

Me thinks Pat's eloquent quote is simply he had already decided he didn't want to try anymore to facilitate the internalization process...me either

Good luck

....or...borrow phrases from an another SOF with a cockortwo. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5)  :bye2:

Quote from: fj1289 on September 24, 2014, 08:17:59 AM

Quote from: The General on September 24, 2014, 02:09:07 AM

Quote from: fj1289 on September 23, 2014, 11:49:33 PM
I have to borrow a phrase from some Army SOF I had the priviledge of serving with:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you might not want to suck on its ass hard enough to make it internalize it"

Me thinks Pat's eloquent quote is simply he had already decided he didn't want to try anymore to facilitate the internalization process...me either

Good luck

....or...borrow phrases from an another SOF with a cockortwo. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6zIfcS7xI&list=PLNJmwVFwfFGObBZa5ekSO_1JM3mY8SMQj&index=5)  :bye2:

:good2:

Netiquette dictates that we always stay on topic of the OP, and never try and derail the OP's topic for our own selfish needs.  But I understand how the human mind wanders, and I'm tolerant of those that deviate, because I do it too.  It's so easy to get sidetracked, we're only humans after all.

Thanks for the help guys.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo 

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 11:29:56 AM
Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo 

Quote from: fj1289 on September 22, 2014, 08:55:16 AM
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

What were your results from riding with the mixture screws adjusted to different positions? 

1. What is your initial setting?  What is your impression of how it performs at that setting?
2.  What setting did you try next?  What was your impression of performance at that setting?  How did it compare to the initial setting?
3.  What setting did you try next?  What was your impression of that setting?  How did it compare to the settings in 1. and 2. above?

Aux tank I use:

(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/XJ550/IMG_20130725_182900_zpsa9efb7e7.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/XJ550/IMG_20130725_182900_zpsa9efb7e7.jpg.html)

Cost me a bottle of vodka and a $3 elbow from Home depot to epoxy into it.

I use one of these..............................

(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/4_zps4b7fccd0.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/4_zps4b7fccd0.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/CIMG4512.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/CIMG4512.jpg.html)

Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99  :good2:

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 24, 2014, 04:19:02 PM
I use one of these..............................

Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99  :good2:

Yeah, but you didn't get a bunch of drinks out of it.  :blum1:

:yahoo:

Quote from: fj1289 on September 24, 2014, 01:44:11 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 11:29:56 AM
Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo 

Quote from: fj1289 on September 22, 2014, 08:55:16 AM
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

What were your results from riding with the mixture screws adjusted to different positions? 
I haven't done that yet, I just followed Hooli's advice and set them all to 3 turns out, until I purchase the ColorTune.  For me, a sufferer of Anxiety, that's the only way I'll feel safe with my wife on board. I just hope I listened to the right person.


1. What is your initial setting?
3 turns out!

What is your impression of how it performs at that setting?
Not great! As far as I remember it's not as good as it was 19 years ago, but I could be wrong, that was a long time ago for me.

2.  What setting did you try next?
I haven't, I'm waiting for the ColorTune so as to be 100% sure what each carb should be.  I promise to let you know then.

What was your impression of performance at that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the initial setting?
See above

3.  What setting did you try next?
See above

What was your impression of that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the settings in 1. and 2. above?
See above

I don't know how that would help me, but thanks anyway, I always appreciate one's time, as that's the one thing almost all of us shall want more of.  I know I shall.

Have a good one!

FJ Forever!  :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: JPaganel on September 24, 2014, 02:37:01 PM
Aux tank I use:

(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/XJ550/IMG_20130725_182900_zpsa9efb7e7.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/XJ550/IMG_20130725_182900_zpsa9efb7e7.jpg.html)

Cost me a bottle of vodka and a $3 elbow from Home depot to epoxy into it.

Awesome, ;) but aren't you worried that those components you used will fail because they may not be ethanol proof?

I don't know that they're not, but that's one of the things worrying me with being creative at engineering a temp tank.

I read an article that said that the Ethanol in E10 actually dissolved the resin portion of fiberglass fuel tanks used in many boats and deposited the polystyrene, apparently that's what the resin yields when broken down with ethanol, on the engines valves and blew it up.

This is a second hand story that I have no way of verifying, but it's enough to make me wary.  Of course your mileage may very.

Thanks for your time.


FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 24, 2014, 04:19:02 PM
I use one of these..............................

(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/4_zps4b7fccd0.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/4_zps4b7fccd0.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/CIMG4512.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/CIMG4512.jpg.html)

Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99  :good2:

I don't know if I'd use that, for fear.  Read my response to JPaganel to know why.

But I must say those carbs are IMPRESSIVE indeed.  It almost looks like you've photoshopped them, WOW!  NICE!  Are those things Sterling?  They sure look like it.  Talk about showroom!

Nice clean shop too, You should see my crappy hole of a garage, you would laugh your ass off, and rightfully so.


Thanks for your time, it's the most valuable gift you can give someone.


FJ Forever!  :drinks:

JoBrCo

You last two posters, thanks for showing me your setups, as they have given me ideas.  And that's what I need, so I understand what ballpark I need to be in.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 05:17:36 PM
Awesome, ;) but aren't you worried that those components you used will fail because they may not be ethanol proof?

I don't know that they're not, but that's one of the things worrying me with being creative at engineering a temp tank.

I wouldn't worry about the components (we know the bottle will hold ethanol just fine :-).  It's just a temporary sync tank.  The fuel will only be in there a few minutes before it gets drained out and put away until next use.

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 05:27:18 PM

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 24, 2014, 04:19:02 PM
I use one of these..............................

(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/4_zps4b7fccd0.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/4_zps4b7fccd0.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/CIMG4512.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/CIMG4512.jpg.html)

Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99  :good2:

I don't know if I'd use that, for fear.  Read my response to JPaganel to know why.

But I must say those carbs are IMPRESSIVE indeed.  It almost looks like you've photoshopped them, WOW!  NICE!  Are those things Sterling?  They sure look like it.  Talk about showroom!

Nice clean shop too, You should see my crappy hole of a garage, you would laugh your ass off, and rightfully so.


Thanks for your time, it's the most valuable gift you can give someone.


FJ Forever!  :drinks:

JoBrCo

I have used this "Coolant Recovery Tank" as an auxiliary fuel tank numerous times without fear of the ethanol doing anything to it...................It contains neither fiberglass, or resin.............It is made from the same material that portable gas cans are made of, only somewhat see-thru....................

The shiny carbs you see in this picture are the "then brand new" rack of carbs that I bought from fellow member Bob W about 4 and a half years ago.........................They were shiny new right out of the box, and the first time ever they had fuel in them when this picture was taken(the very day that Erich V, and I hit the highway from Phoenix AZ to Willits CA for the 2010 WCR)...........................I assure you they are currently somewhat dirtier at present....

Also, the shop isn't as clean and organized as this picture might lead one to believe.........................

Quote from: JPaganel on September 24, 2014, 05:05:33 PM

Quote from: Firehawk068 on September 24, 2014, 04:19:02 PM
I use one of these..............................

Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99  :good2:

Yeah, but you didn't get a bunch of drinks out of it.  :blum1:

:yahoo:

I might have............................before I put fuel in it. :shok:

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 05:08:08 PM

Quote from: fj1289 on September 24, 2014, 01:44:11 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 11:29:56 AM
Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo 

Quote from: fj1289 on September 22, 2014, 08:55:16 AM
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

What were your results from riding with the mixture screws adjusted to different positions? 
I haven't done that yet, I just followed Hooli's advice and set them all to 3 turns out, until I purchase the ColorTune.  For me, a sufferer of Anxiety, that's the only way I'll feel safe with my wife on board. I just hope I listened to the right person.


1. What is your initial setting?
3 turns out!

What is your impression of how it performs at that setting?
Not great! As far as I remember it's not as good as it was 19 years ago, but I could be wrong, that was a long time ago for me.

2.  What setting did you try next?
I haven't, I'm waiting for the ColorTune so as to be 100% sure what each carb should be.  I promise to let you know then.

What was your impression of performance at that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the initial setting?
See above

3.  What setting did you try next?
See above

What was your impression of that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the settings in 1. and 2. above?
See above

I don't know how that would help me, but thanks anyway, I always appreciate one's time, as that's the one thing almost all of us shall want more of.  I know I shall.

Have a good one!

FJ Forever!  :drinks:

JoBrCo

It helps you by telling you how to find the best mixture (which is where the bike runs its best) on your own without having to spend money on something you don't need in order to get the job right.

Every engine is going to want/need a slightly different idle mixture.  There is no one answer fits all.  Even with the colortune it isn't going to be clear cut.   How blue how yellow is the mixture that is right for your engine?  You won't know until you find the right mixture first!  How will you know it's right?  It's where it runs best.  How do you find that?  By changing them a little at a time and testing them.   It is a very basic application of the scientific principle. 

Are you absolutely sure the carbs are clean?  All is for not if they are not

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 11:03:47 AM
I originally thought you were one of the intelligent ones here...

I'm done...

Frank

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 24, 2014, 05:57:34 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 05:17:36 PM
Awesome, ;) but aren't you worried that those components you used will fail because they may not be ethanol proof?

I don't know that they're not, but that's one of the things worrying me with being creative at engineering a temp tank.

I wouldn't worry about the components (we know the bottle will hold ethanol just fine :-).  It's just a temporary sync tank.  The fuel will only be in there a few minutes before it gets drained out and put away until next use.

We? Are you's two neighbors?  Actually I was referring more to the epoxy, and how it might hold up to the ethanol.  And I thought the bottle was plastic.  Also I didn't realize that the vodka was exactly the same as the current E10 fuel blend.  But then I'm really just a beer drinker, I don't mess with the hard stuff much.  Not anymore, that was a very long time ago.


FJ Forever!

JoBrCo

Quote from: fj1289 on September 24, 2014, 06:54:10 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 05:08:08 PM

Quote from: fj1289 on September 24, 2014, 01:44:11 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 11:29:56 AM
Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo 

Quote from: fj1289 on September 22, 2014, 08:55:16 AM
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

What were your results from riding with the mixture screws adjusted to different positions? 
I haven't done that yet, I just followed Hooli's advice and set them all to 3 turns out, until I purchase the ColorTune.  For me, a sufferer of Anxiety, that's the only way I'll feel safe with my wife on board. I just hope I listened to the right person.


1. What is your initial setting?
3 turns out!

What is your impression of how it performs at that setting?
Not great! As far as I remember it's not as good as it was 19 years ago, but I could be wrong, that was a long time ago for me.

2.  What setting did you try next?
I haven't, I'm waiting for the ColorTune so as to be 100% sure what each carb should be.  I promise to let you know then.

What was your impression of performance at that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the initial setting?
See above

3.  What setting did you try next?
See above

What was your impression of that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the settings in 1. and 2. above?
See above

I don't know how that would help me, but thanks anyway, I always appreciate one's time, as that's the one thing almost all of us shall want more of.  I know I shall.

Have a good one!

FJ Forever!  :drinks:

JoBrCo

It helps you by telling you how to find the best mixture (which is where the bike runs its best) on your own without having to spend money on something you don't need in order to get the job right.

Every engine is going to want/need a slightly different idle mixture.  There is no one answer fits all.  Even with the colortune it isn't going to be clear cut.   How blue how yellow is the mixture that is right for your engine?  You won't know until you find the right mixture first!  How will you know it's right?  It's where it runs best.  How do you find that?  By changing them a little at a time and testing them.   It is a very basic application of the scientific principle. 

Are you absolutely sure the carbs are clean?  All is for not if they are not

I may not be a pro at this bike, but there are things I know.  For instance the colortune device is in fact the best solution for knowing ones air/fuel mixture.  And that's a fact. Which this screw we're talking about seems to not deal with, or so many have said so.  And I'm not saying they're wrong, because I don't know that for sure.  How do I know about the color tune?  From several other sources.  First I learned a long time ago from a natural gas specialist that was installing a stove, that explained that when a burner burns yellow it means that the gas is present in the flame, that it's not burning completely, which can be dangerous, that one wants a blue flame, which means that it is burning clean, that there is no gas present.  Then later when my buddy taught me how to use an acetylene torch.  First you turn on the acetylene to light it, it burns yellow, then you add the oxygen, and it turns blue, different shades depending upon how much O2 you add.  That all is the same thing here, an air/fuel ratio.  When an engine burns blue you are getting the best gas mileage possible without burning too lean which is hard on the engine.  Also it gives you a definite starting place for each carb.  Set them all to just blue, then adjust from there, if you want to. Knowing that your adjustment will be exactly the same either way (rich/lean) if you turn the screws the same amount, in the same direction.

Of course your mileage may vary, everyone should use the method they feel more comfortable with.  And I feel more comfortable with the colortune.  There is no affront to your person intended.  As Dave Mason sang:  "There is no good guy, there is no bad guy, there's only you and me, and we just disagree."


FJ Forever!

JoBrCo

Quote from: Flynt on September 24, 2014, 08:22:54 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 11:03:47 AM

I originally thought you were one of the intelligent ones here...

I'm done...

Frank

Congrats, JoBrCo.

You're successfully alienating yourself from some of the finest people I've had the pleasure to meet.

If this is what you intend, then carry on. Otherwise, you might want to chill for a while and read some past threads on the subjects you're asking about. None of your questions are new, after all.

Just tryin' to keep the peace.

Steve

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 05:17:36 PM

Awesome, ;) but aren't you worried that those components you used will fail because they may not be ethanol proof?

Nope, not at all. As mentioned, vodka is about 40% ethanol. The elbow is made of polyethylene, one of the most chemically inert plastics out there.

Ultimately, if this fails, who cares? It's not a tank that I take down the road with me. Worst that would happen, I would need a change of clothes. I would just grab another bottle and make another one.

I will throw out there that this setup is in it's third year of existence and shows no signs of failing. I added an $4 plastic shutoff valve for convenience.

Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on September 24, 2014, 09:30:28 PM

Quote from: Flynt on September 24, 2014, 08:22:54 PM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 24, 2014, 11:03:47 AM

I originally thought you were one of the intelligent ones here...

I'm done...

Frank

Congrats, JoBrCo.

You're successfully alienating yourself from some of the finest people I've had the pleasure to meet.

If this is what you intend, then carry on. Otherwise, you might want to chill for a while and read some past threads on the subjects you're asking about. None of your questions are new, after all.

Just tryin' to keep the peace.

Steve

Your take, not mine.  I only ever defend, I never offend!  And I absolutely refuse to be part of a mob.

And I'm sure you are aware of how impossible it is to use the search function, it seems no one uses the same verbiage, for instance Yamaha calls them Carburetor Joints, while most Americans call them intake manifolds. And that's just the beginning of the trouble, because I have looked up every single item before asking about them, and only ask when I can find nothing.

Trust me, as one dealing with anxiety, high blood pressure, and borderline diabetes, I don't need the heartache, I want to live a little longer.  This getting old thing sucks big time, of course it beats the alternative.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 25, 2014, 01:29:18 AM
Your take, not mine.  I only ever defend, I never offend!  And I absolutely refuse to be part of a mob.

Less "R" and more E & E will assist "S" ....you are not in enemy territory.....and there`s certainly no "Mob" thinking here. Demonstrably, Individuality does require a little of your own physical effort including sole practical risk"...give it a go, get the text efforts balanced with some shed time me thinks.

And I'm sure you are aware of how impossible it is to use the search function,

Yeah, the search function is tricky. I find a google search gets you to your destination within this forum easier most times.

Trust me, as one dealing with anxiety, high blood pressure, and borderline diabetes, I don't need the heartache, I want to live a little longer.  This getting old thing sucks big time, of course it beats the alternative.

Yeah, yeah, Big deal, but I`m with ya on the "living Longer" bit. Coincidently, getting old doesn`t suck if you make it to one of our/your rallys, anywhere.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

I don`t think I can contribute much more help than you have received really, but I can say that I`ve used the colortune gadget and found it very interesting. (the guys on the XS1100 forum find it good enough.) It was however nowhere near as good as the vacuum gauges for synchronising Imho.

In my old age, I now realise that I often, previously, came close to causing people to Hang themselves....In fact I didn`t get the humour in the movie "Flying High" originally...but second time around, when it was forced on me again, it simply broke me up. (Thanks Kids!)  I have since curtailed my propensity to overdoing analytical thinking. (though it`s still not safe to be near me at the campfire!). I also find PM`s on this forum really productive and often more prudent,.... along with less gasping for breath.

Seriously looking forward to hearing results of your Manshed time. (esp the second time around)  :drinks:

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 25, 2014, 01:29:18 AM

And I'm sure you are aware of how impossible it is to use the search function, it seems no one uses the same verbiage, for instance Yamaha calls them Carburetor Joints, while most Americans call them intake manifolds. And that's just the beginning of the trouble, because I have looked up every single item before asking about them, and only ask when I can find nothing.

Verbiage aside, the search function of the forum's engine sucks to the point of being unusable, and that's why you can't find anything. Just how Simple Machines wrote it. Every forum running SMF suffers from this.  I can't even find my own posts I know for a fact exist.

Save yourself the exasperation and use Google site search. Just append "site: fjowners.com" to whatever you are searching. Like so:

QuoteCarburetors site:fjowners.com

as to using an auxiliary tank when setting carbs, never had one in fact never needed one I simply remove the tank and sit it backwards on the rear frame, and strap it down with a bungee ...   as for ethanol attacking fibre glass/ epoxy  resin it certainly does although it may take a while, it destroyed a fibre glass tank on my cafe racer in months, although there are some types of resin that are supposedly safe. (didnt work on the cafe tank although that may have been poor prep or application of tank sealer by myself)
  setting up carbs is somewhat of a black art, which unless you have access to a rolling road dyno, and even then, involves a lot of experimentation to get the settings perfect. having said that in my experience  carb balancing  affects performance noticeably at mild throttle openings, up to where the needle jets takeover from the pilots  and increasingly less so as the throttle is opened wider
       

Call me an idiot if you will, but this is my virgin attempt at trying to resuscitate a bike with a very limited budget.  So my thought was to "try" and only replace that which was immediately necessary, saving those things that I could get away with, until last.  Someone that could have given me a list of these things would have been priceless.  Of course I started with the hydraulics, because to me the ability to control ones inertia is the most important thing of all. ;)  I don't believe I need that now, as I think I'm "at least" at the midway point, maybe three quarters, meaning for the sake of acceptable operation, not full restoration.

For instance, I tried to get away with not replacing the float needles, because under a 10x coddington magnifying glass, they looked pretty good.  There was only a very slight indentation from the seat, so I figured, "that will seal," (not wanting to think that the rubber might be too hard), but, from the beginning, I've been intermittently having problems with very rough running, (less than 4 cylinders), backfiring, and the smell of fuel from the exhaust.  I finally thought, "misfires due to flooding"  (FYI, this is a stock 85 FJ1100, gravity fed bike). It hasn't happened that bad until recently, when I finally put E10 and Lucas stabilizer in the tank, (I had been using 'pure' gasoline @ $5.00/gal ) until yesterday, and filled it much fuller than I have up until then, almost completely full, instead of half.  Since three things changed I was confused, "Was it the fuel, stabilizer or the increased pressure from the weight of the fuel causing the float needles to not seal?" They are, after all, the stock 1985 float needles, unless a shop changed them prior to 1993, (the last time I took my bike to a shop). I finally decided that it was the latter, so I just now ordered the float needles. Again, call me an idiot if you will, some of you would probably like to, but this is my first attempt at doing this sort of thing.

Oh, and I also have a 12mm Motorcycle ColorTune on the way.  I know you purists, "artists," if you will, are squirming in your seats right about now.  But again I'm new and require the confidence support that it provides, remember I struggle with anxiety.  So "of course" your mileage shall probably vary, it's a no brainer, as many of you have the confidence that "more stick time" (<-navy jargon) affords, and no anxiety to boot.

For those that this applies to, just please get off my case for being uncertain and "questioning everything"  It's nothing personal, how could it be, I don't really know any of you, while "many" of you "do" have that luxury.  Rather understand that it's a function of my anxiety, I've deserved none of the shit I've been given thus far, can't anyone be sick around here?  Not that it's a major sickness, surely not communicable, but it leaves me always uncertain, worrying about potential disaster, that I "certainly" can't afford.  It's about me people, please let me be me, until I actually "purposely," "initially" "offend!" Which up till now, has certainly not been the case. "Quote it," and I shall explain my reasoning for the misunderstanding, the best that I can calculate it.  Communication can be a bitch sometimes, (Led Zeppelin sang about it), especially on a forum, without face to face body language, and facial inflections.

Thanks to all those that are wise enough to understand, and find it in their hearts to try and help people before they die, when they no longer can be that positive force, that helps change the world for the better.

At least that's becoming more and more my mission, as I approach my end; hopefully to help the world, not for the sake of a history book entry, just for the sake of the world, my "Children's, children's, children." (thanks Moody Blues)! ;)

Again, thanks to all those that have taken their time, to try and help, it matters not if you're right or wrong, just that you've tried, but more importantly, you have given your time, the most precious gift of all!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo

Years ago I used a colour tune to set up the two carbs on a Landrover 101. Each carb feeds its side of the V8 and they were way out of sync. An afternoon of cleaning and adjusting finished with perfect combustion colours and a nice even idle. The following day dawned bright with a thick frost and that engine refused to start until I returned the carbs back to their original settings. I guess that some engines like some people just prefer not to have a healthy diet. I suppose that I could have gone through the whole thing fixing any issues but the engine ran and was happy to keep on running so I did not bother touching those carbs ever again. In theory the colour tune worked perfectly but in practice in this case it led me up a blind alley.
I suppose that it would isolate the troublesome cylinder(s) but then so would any of the other methods recommended. Finally while you are able clean up and reset that main engine earth because it took me several days of head scratching to figure out that mine was fine but not all of the time.

Quote from: Dogsbestfriend on September 26, 2014, 04:28:06 PM
Years ago I used a colour tune to set up the two carbs on a Landrover 101. Each carb feeds its side of the V8 and they were way out of sync. An afternoon of cleaning and adjusting finished with perfect combustion colours and a nice even idle. The following day dawned bright with a thick frost and that engine refused to start until I returned the carbs back to their original settings. I guess that some engines like some people just prefer not to have a healthy diet. I suppose that I could have gone through the whole thing fixing any issues but the engine ran and was happy to keep on running so I did not bother touching those carbs ever again. In theory the colour tune worked perfectly but in practice in this case it led me up a blind alley.
I suppose that it would isolate the troublesome cylinder(s) but then so would any of the other methods recommended. Finally while you are able clean up and reset that main engine earth because it took me several days of head scratching to figure out that mine was fine but not all of the time.

As always, thanks for the food for thought, I always appreciate it, and learn something from it.

I'm thinking that if nothing else the colortune shall show me the differences between each carb more reliably than hit and miss, unless one is really good at it.  Once I find each cylinders perfect burn with the device, It shall also indicate the differences between them in terms of how many turns each one takes to achieve it. I can then adjust them the same number of turns, either rich or lean from that position, knowing with much more certainty, that they shall all be adjusted the same.  Make no mistake, I'm not under the false impression that this, in any way, negates the need to sync the carbs relative butterfly positions, for a smooth idle.  But I'm pretty sure that together, those two adjustments, along with other things I've already done and shall do, will allow me to achieve an extremely accurate carburetion tuneup.

Of course I haven't done the valves yet, and know full well that until I do, she shall not be as good as she can be, and that I'll have to do the carbs all over again.  But then, practice makes perfect, right?

I'm planning on doing the valves very soon.  I just have to buy a brand new set of feeler gauges and a magnetic retriever, probably from Harbor Freight.

Thanks again!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo

You want help getting your bike running satisfactory and reliably?
You need to shut the fuck up about your bullshit and do what people tell you to do instead of moaning how hard done by you are.
They have told you repeatedly exactly what to do yet each time you've turned in into a whiny arse poor me self pitying moan fest.
You want sympathy?
It's famously in the dictionary, between shit & syphilis.

Quote from: Klavdy on September 27, 2014, 04:24:06 AM
You want help getting your bike running satisfactory and reliably?
The answer to that question is a no brainer!

You need to shut the fuck up
The only thing any of us "need" to do is breath, drink, eat, and be sheltered until we die. However some of us "want" or "desire" all kinds of crazy shit, for instance you "want/desire" to be a bad ass, or a god, the psychology involved here, is quite infantile and laughable, or maybe megalomaniacal.

about your bullshit
Not at all; as if you could possibly "know."  What, are you clairvoyant?  Should I call you Miss Cleo?

and do what people tell you to do
So now you're a god??  Are you a puppet??  I'm not!!  There's that bully again; how prepubescent of you.

instead of moaning how hard done by you are.
So you're not smart enough to understand the difference between someone being informative, so others can understand, and not be offended by, what some may see, as trivial concerns, and someone wanting sympathy.  You should reread, paying particular attention to SEQUENCE, as therein lies your answer. Sorry but, if you're actually capable of comprehending the significance of SEQUENCE, you'll feel sort of stupid.  I'm sorry, but that can't be helped, as it's your bad, not mine.

They have told you repeatedly exactly what to do
Again with the God complex, relax you're not it.  You're just a man, like all the rest of us.  Talk about visions of grandeur, sheesh!!

yet each time you've turned in into
No your words still exist as they originally were.  We are not allowed to edit others message's, Klavdy! One would think you'd know that by now.

a whiny arse poor me self pitying moan fest.
Sorry Klavdy, but "SEQUENCE" is everything, reread and maybe you'll understand.

You want sympathy?
Not at all; pay attention, Klavdy, I only said that for their benefit, so they will understand and not be insulted when I seem to not listen, though I have from the beginning. They just expect something I'm not really capable of, so I was informing them so they could relax.

It's famously in the dictionary, between shit & syphilis.
All three of which, I'm sure you understand only too well.  Please tell me their definitions Klavdy.

Feel better now that you've flexed you muscles? ;)

Let me tell you whom I "respect" here, (all you others relax as we've not really talked so this doesn't apply to you), all those that have tried to honestly help me, (that's the blanket statement covering all those that know who they are), there are a few members that recently have, and I may forget their names, due to the fact that I'm getting older, so pardon me if you're not on the list:  George is one of the more mature people here, as well as Hooli, and Rib (Noel).  They are also the most forth coming with their giving, these are good men.  Others may be exactly the same as these three, but feel that they either don't understand me, or can't help me, because of a lack of familiarity with my problems. Recently, JPaganel, Firehawk068, fj1289, and dogsbestfriend have also been helpful, and deserve respect.  Some of the people here initially helped me, and I thank them for that help, but they have deserted me; peer pressure??  It does affect many people, me too, sometimes.  The best thing any of us can do is be tolerant of one another, understanding that we are not all exactly the same.

But Klavdy, I'm afraid you'll never make my list, of Good Men, at least if this type of "HELP" is all that you can muster, as it's definitely not help for me, for yourself maybe, in your mind, for those that are here, (your fellow compatriots), but that's just your delusion.  In fact your type of help is no help for anyone, because it only serves to perpetuate your delusion that force reins supreme, I pity the Shelia that has to put up with you, if this has been any indicator of what she has to suffer, because she's less than perfect, like us all.  Though I shall not give up on you, as you may yet understand one day.

Good luck with that my friend, I hope you get over your sickness soon, we can use another good man!


FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

You've been told repeatedly how to fix your shit, yet each time you turn it into a discourse about your whiny dramas.
You don't want your bike fixed, you want validation and enabling from others.
Well, fuck that.
People haven't  "Deserted" you, they are sick of your shit and could not be bothered with your moaning
Why would any one  be arsed "Tolerating" your self obsession when you won't help yourself.
Who else apart from you gives a shit about your self inflicted psycho dramas?
You're a narcissistic attention whore.

Christ on a crutch I am really enjoying reading this thread! My passive aggressive side I imagine. There is allot of great info on this site, and any D-bag with around 2k can buy an FJ.....like my cherry '89 which I dumped today following a buddy on his damn Ducati 999......Washed out at 35mph around a hairpin. Great time to send carbs to Randy.

Klavdy
you have been conspicuously quite lately and I have missed your insightful coments   :diablo: glad to see you are still checking in once in a while

 :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:  Damn, I've missed you Klav...welcome back brutha.   :good2:

Quote from: Klavdy on September 27, 2014, 07:49:45 PM
You've been told repeatedly how to fix your shit,
Not at all as my "shit" doesn't need fixing, it's my bike, that does.

yet each time you turn it into a discourse about your whiny dramas.
Only your self serving take, so as an excuse, to play with your bone in public.

You don't want your bike fixed,
Of course I do and so does the wife. But right now she's laughing.

you want validation and enabling from others.
Wrong again, I want idiots to keep their preconceived notions to themselves, case in point.  It takes one to start crap, two to continue it, and again one to end it.  If no one ends it, then either the two like it, or the one that's defending wants to be the one to end it, as it should be.  I can't believe you actually need this easy crap explained to you.

Well, fuck that.
Fuck the imaginary demons you project onto others? Yes, that's exactly my point, while I wait for you to get a clue.

People haven't  "Deserted" you, they are sick of your shit
Same thing! You speak of intolerance, one of the problems of the world.  Of course your solution, to bully it, is only yanking your chain.  A common theme of the muscle brained.

and could not be bothered with your moaning
Everyone has a choice, to make time is to make time, to not make time is to not make time.  This shit is really pretty simple Klavdy, pay attention!

Why would any one  be arsed "Tolerating" your self obsession when you won't help yourself.
Again with the clairvoyance, you are a Miss Cleo fan, right? Do you use a crystal ball or tarot cards?

Who else apart from you gives a shit about your self inflicted psycho dramas?
Ditto!  The megalomania of an Aussie, it's a twisted web you weave. Contradiction in the forefront, apparently your hallmark.

You're a narcissistic attention whore.
And again, you speak of yourself.  The consummate bad assed god, or so your delusion surely indicates.  I truely feel sorry for you, your sickness of obliviousness. 

Come on Klavdy, we need another good man, if you were drowning I'd pull you to safety, (I've done it before), despite you trying to kill me in the process.  Because I know that you're not really responsible, you're merely the culmination of your experience, (from the moment you opened your eyes), that you have yet to fully understand.  But who blames you, it can take a lifetime to unravel.  Tell me about your childhood, who hurt you the most, to leave you so bitter?  How old were you?  Younger than 5? During those human psyche formative years?  There's hope for you yet, focus your frustration on physical fitness, that's a great way to deal with it.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

With Love,  JoBrCo

As the cheerleaders shake their pom poms!

(popcorn) (popcorn)

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Quote from: The General on September 25, 2014, 03:30:17 AM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 25, 2014, 01:29:18 AM
Your take, not mine.  I only ever defend, I never offend!  And I absolutely refuse to be part of a mob.

Less "R" and more E & E will assist "S" ....you are not in enemy territory.....and there`s certainly no "Mob" thinking here. Demonstrably, Individuality does require a little of your own physical effort including sole practical risk"...give it a go, get the text efforts balanced with some shed time me thinks.

And I'm sure you are aware of how impossible it is to use the search function,

Yeah, the search function is tricky. I find a google search gets you to your destination within this forum easier most times.

Trust me, as one dealing with anxiety, high blood pressure, and borderline diabetes, I don't need the heartache, I want to live a little longer.  This getting old thing sucks big time, of course it beats the alternative.

Yeah, yeah, Big deal, but I`m with ya on the "living Longer" bit. Coincidently, getting old doesn`t suck if you make it to one of our/your rallys, anywhere.
I probably shall never make it, because obviously I'm not welcome, I would be bringing my wife if I did, because as usual, we always do adventures together, and I wouldn't want to drag her to face the twisted dramas of certain potential malcontents.  She's also a sufferer of PTSD from the age of 4, as her father let her 8 YO sister play William Tell with a 4 year old, and my wife lost an eye because of it, the apple was fine. Some people have actually made fun of her, actually firing her from her job because of it, "look at me when I talk to you," they said, more blind than she is, and I can see that some of your members would unfortunately be the type to cause problems, no fingers pointed at anyone, they know who they are.  "I come for the land down under."  Sorry but sometimes I break into song, out of the clear blue, I just love music, and I really liked, "Men at Work."  


FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

I don`t think I can contribute much more help than you have received really, but I can say that I`ve used the colortune gadget and found it very interesting. (the guys on the XS1100 forum find it good enough.) It was however nowhere near as good as the vacuum gauges for synchronising Imho.

In my old age, I now realise that I often, previously, came close to causing people to Hang themselves....In fact I didn`t get the humour in the movie "Flying High" originally...but second time around, when it was forced on me again, it simply broke me up. (Thanks Kids!)  I have since curtailed my propensity to overdoing analytical thinking. (though it`s still not safe to be near me at the campfire!). I also find PM`s on this forum really productive and often more prudent,.... along with less gasping for breath.

Seriously looking forward to hearing results of your Manshed time. (esp the second time around)  :drinks:

Thanks General, nice to see you have the ability to look past peoples differences, it would seem you are another of the more mature individuals here, I'm sure there are many more, and many on the cusp. I think it's age, and the realization that one shall die soon that wakes one up to tolerance, life's just too short to be fussing and fighting, my friend.  Though unfortunately there are those that never learn, that we are all in fact equal; if at no other time they can sense it, then surely when we return from whence we came; the miracle exhausted.

Yes I shall share with you all, right now as usual, I'm waiting on parts.  I will share this though.  Today there was a puddle of fuel under the bike, the emptying of only the fuel line, thanks to the vacuum actuated petcock, an indicator of the 30 year old float needles inability to seal due to their hardness.  Sorry about the speed, or rather the lack thereof, it's just a testament to the limited nature of my capability to progress. Trust me I'm slow but sure.

Have a good one!  Though your "Yeah, Yeah Big deal" was misinformed.  I'm telling you, I'm not your average guy, yet you's all seem to be projecting exactly that, upon me.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:


JoBrCo  

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 28, 2014, 01:41:58 AM
As the cheerleaders shake their pom poms!

(popcorn) (popcorn)

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Smells like teen spirit...or something maybe not so fresh! :lol: You haven't been abandoned Jo-Bro some are just stepping back to let the shit fly and not get dirty. I sure hope you get that bike sorted out so you can post about the great times you re having riding her! As for attending future rallys, why the hell not, its really about these bikes,thats why were all here right? I'm pretty polite online only because I'm a computer newbie,but in the real world I'm pretty opinionated and can be a real asshole...or not. At least that's what my Wife tells me!                                                                                                                                                              Cheers.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Charley.

Quote from: charleygofast on September 28, 2014, 10:35:38 AM

Quote from: JoBrCo on September 28, 2014, 01:41:58 AM
As the cheerleaders shake their pom poms!

(popcorn) (popcorn)

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

Smells like teen spirit...or something maybe not so fresh! :lol: You haven't been abandoned Jo-Bro some are just stepping back to let the shit fly and not get dirty. I sure hope you get that bike sorted out so you can post about the great times you re having riding her! As for attending future rallys, why the hell not, its really about these bikes,thats why were all here right? I'm pretty polite online only because I'm a computer newbie,but in the real world I'm pretty opinionated and can be a real asshole...or not. At least that's what my Wife tells me!                                                                                                                                                              Cheers.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Charley.

Well Charley, every time you open your mouth it surely brightens my day, another good man, to try and put your best foot forward.  You always seem to be positive, that's a good thing.  I can't seem to muster that strength, with any consistency.  And you're a Guitar guru to boot, and a Rush fan, IMHO, who could ask for more. ;)  I hope you and yours are healthy, happy and wise.

I know you guys are probably going to say, "Not Again!"  But I new I was in trouble, when my wife was away for 3 years, leaving me all alone during that time, to watch the house, while she was in DC trying to save it.  Just prior to her leaving, my last friend (no longer) called one day and the first thing he asked was, "what are you doing," and I replied, "not much, just waiting to die," this was in 2009. Then while she was away, I saw this barricade of concrete and rebar, as I was driving, and felt an irresistible urge to purposely crash into it, then I started uncontrollably shaking while continuing on my way home, I had just been at the VA seeing my psychologist.  It was indeed "Angst," (Anxiety) the very definition.  Where one stands on the precipice, a sheer cliff of granite, thousands of feet high, and feels that they can easily jump off it, as they shudder at how easy it would be.  Not that they necessarily would, but then...

...one never knows.  And it scared the shit out of me.  A totally new feeling, of possibility.

But enough with the downers. ;)
     
I'm working on it, the bike that is.  Now those that initially read it, know why I said that working on the bike is saving my life, something to live for, to loose weight and get back into shape, to rekindle my youth, if only in my mind. Those fine people here have given me much food for thought, though they don't seem aware, apparently having no faith in me, which is to be expected. How could they know me, I'm an FJOwners.com newbie.  But she'll get there, in that slow time that it takes me.  I'll keep you all abreast of my progress.  If for no other reason, so some of you can laugh.  Laughter causes endorphins to be released boosting the immune system, helping to reduce pain, prevent heart disease and diminish ANXIETY! Anyone know a good joke?

As to me and a rally, I've heard the mention of guns, the resolve of the fearful, and that doesn't mix with alcohol, or any mind altering substance.  No, I have Anxiety and therefore have a real problem trusting anyone, I'm the only one that I know is sane, and shall never purposely offend so as to cow, as if I'm a god, sheesh! When shall we ever grow up?  AGAIN, ONLY SPEAKING OF THOSE TO WHICH IT APPLIES, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, NO FINGERS ARE BEING POINTED BY ME AT ANYONE.

We are peaceful people and don't believe that forcing anything upon anyone is the answer, only to live and let live, the golden rule reigns supreme in my book, though I've changed it a little, to address some concerns of a few well known philosophers, "Treat others as you would have them treat you, to the extent that all parties knowingly agree at the time."

PEACE my friends, you know who you are.

God damn it, I can't wait for those parts, the post office is dragging their feet again.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo  

So are you people starting to believe, that you know me a little better? To me there is depth to everything, I am definitely NOT superficial.  I dive as deep as I can, so as to try and understand the universe,

"Pools of sorrow waves of joy are drifting through my opened mind, possessing and caressing me. Jai Guru Deva. Om; Nothings gonna change my world; Nothings gonna change my world;  Nothings gonna change my world; Nothings gonna change my world." -Beatles-

I shall accept anybody, that is likewise accepting.  We are "all," in fact, equal.

Keep on Rockin' and Ridin'

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo

I beg to differ with the statement a few posts above.  It's NOT about the motorcycles, it's about the people.  

Jo, just for a sense of perspective: one of the people you are railing against has LITERALLY invited others of us to fly across the planet and offered to  pick us up at the airport, take us to their home where they and their families would house and feed us, loan us motorcycles, and lead us on a ride through the Snowy Mountains.  These people have LITERALLY fixed other people's motorcycles at our rallies, just to help them enjoy themselves more and thereby enjoy their enjoyment.  He and others have LITERALLY been an important part of the raising of my only child, including being responsible in some small part for his safety at times.  

I am proud to call these people are my friends, even the ones I haven't seen in a few years (but hope to see next Boone!) or have only seen once, or have not yet met in person.  

My friends here have spoon-fed you all the information you need to get your motorcycle working properly.(*)  You are welcome to stick your finger down your throat afterward, but it is wildly unrealistic to expect anybody to have any sympathy for you when you feel ill and malnourished afterward.  

The fact that nobody sides with you when you subsequently blame and rail against the people who spoon-fed you?  That doesn't indicate that we are a mob and that you are being persecuted.  It indicates that you are wrong, and that you are too wrapped up in problems of your own making to realize it.  

You might want to try adjusting your carb idle mixture screws according to the instructions as before.  THOSE INSTRUCTIONS WORK.  These motorcycles are pretty simple and durable, and the folks here have 30 years of experience solving the problems that occur in them.   There's only so much good you can do with a carburetor (a.k.a. "fuel toilet") to make an air-cooled engine from the 1980's (that is based on one from the 1970's) run well, and there is only so "well" that "running well" gets for such a bike.  But when it's running well enough that you can ride it, that's a lot of fun and it's very satisfying.  And it sounds as though you can use some fun and some satisfaction.

You might also want to talk to someone professional about other things, possibly someone with a prescription pad, because therapy and psychotropics have come a long way since "tell me about your Oedipal complex" and lithium.  Seriously, the more in-depth you go with your formatting and your fonts and indentations and quotes as you attempt to refute your own responsibilities for your predicament, the more obvious it becomes that you are making your own problems.  And similar to adjusting carburetors, you'll never achieve perfection, but you can make things  a LOT better, taking things from "dysfunctional" to "really satisfying and fun."

Good luck, man.

Quote from: Bill_Rockoff on September 28, 2014, 01:36:39 PM
I beg to differ with the statement a few posts above.  It's NOT about the motorcycles, it's about the people.  

Jo, just for a sense of perspective: one of the people you are railing against has LITERALLY invited others of us to fly across the planet and offered to  pick us up at the airport, take us to their home where they and their families would house and feed us, loan us motorcycles, and lead us on a ride through the Snowy Mountains.  These people have LITERALLY fixed other people's motorcycles at our rallies, just to help them enjoy themselves more and thereby enjoy their enjoyment.  He and others have LITERALLY been an important part of the raising of my only child, including being responsible in some small part for his safety at times.  

I am proud to call these people are my friends, even the ones I haven't seen in a few years (but hope to see next Boone!) or have only seen once, or have not yet met in person.  

My friends here have spoon-fed you all the information you need to get your motorcycle working properly.(*)  You are welcome to stick your finger down your throat afterward, but it is wildly unrealistic to expect anybody to have any sympathy for you when you feel ill and malnourished afterward.  

The fact that nobody sides with you when you subsequently blame and rail against the people who spoon-fed you?  That doesn't indicate that we are a mob and that you are being persecuted.  It indicates that you are wrong, and that you are too wrapped up in problems of your own making to realize it.  

You might want to try adjusting your carb idle mixture screws according to the instructions as before.  THOSE INSTRUCTIONS WORK.  These motorcycles are pretty simple and durable, and the folks here have 30 years of experience solving the problems that occur in them.   There's only so much good you can do with a carburetor (a.k.a. "fuel toilet") to make an air-cooled engine from the 1980's (that is based on one from the 1970's) run well, and there is only so "well" that "running well" gets for such a bike.  But when it's running well enough that you can ride it, that's a lot of fun and it's very satisfying.  And it sounds as though you can use some fun and some satisfaction.

You might also want to talk to someone professional about other things, possibly someone with a prescription pad, because therapy and psychotropics have come a long way since "tell me about your Oedipal complex" and lithium.  Seriously, the more in-depth you go with your formatting and your fonts and indentations and quotes as you attempt to refute your own responsibilities for your predicament, the more obvious it becomes that you are making your own problems.  And similar to adjusting carburetors, you'll never achieve perfection, but you can make things  a LOT better, taking things from "dysfunctional" to "really satisfying and fun."

Good luck, man.

+1 (on all of the above!)

Ok Bill you're right, it is about the people...although its the motorcycle...this one very special and unique bike that has brought us together here on this forum and in this friendly bike-chat we partake in. I have not yet met any fellow members, being fairly new and not attending any rallys yet...but I will and I'm sure it will be like seeing old friends again. I feel I've gotten to know a few of you pretty well in the 7 months I've been a member and I've gotten alot of good advice regarding my bike and for this I'm forever gratefull. Ive put alot of miles (3000 or so) on a bike that I've only owned since Feb. It hadn't run in several years and I knew very little about it, but thanks to the advice from alot of you including JoBrCo, my old girl is running like a champ and I suspect she will for as long as I'm her keeper...then my son takes over. I guess my point being, thanks, thanks everyone for the help, and the entertainment this forum has brought me. I look foreward to meeting and riding with some of you as soon as humanly possible. I just finished replacing my rear brake pads and its 80 fuckin degrees here...I'm goin for a ride!!!                                                                       Charley.                                                                                                                                              

Quote from: Bill_Rockoff on September 28, 2014, 01:36:39 PM
I beg to differ with the statement a few posts above.  It's NOT about the motorcycles, it's about the people.  

Jo, just for a sense of perspective: one of the people you are railing against has LITERALLY invited others of us to fly across the planet and offered to  pick us up at the airport, take us to their home where they and their families would house and feed us, loan us motorcycles, and lead us on a ride through the Snowy Mountains.  These people have LITERALLY fixed other people's motorcycles at our rallies, just to help them enjoy themselves more and thereby enjoy their enjoyment.  He and others have LITERALLY been an important part of the raising of my only child, including being responsible in some small part for his safety at times.  
That's all great stuff, and can see how it would in fact endear one to another, though I wouldn't murder anyone because of it. Some things are just wrong, despite a strong bonding experience.


I am proud to call these people are my friends, even the ones I haven't seen in a few years (but hope to see next Boone!) or have only seen once, or have not yet met in person.  
That's great, the way it should be.


My friends here have spoon-fed you
Woah Nelly.  You were being so factual, and showing such human compassion, for your "friends." And then you take a "pot shot" at "me," phrasing in such a way as to insinuate that I'm either a baby or an invalid, when you could have phrased it in "many" other ways. So don't wonder why I fight back, at this kind of rudeness, nastiness, and it's been this way from the "start" of all this crap.  Some of you offending me, me only defending, then another chimes in, too bothered to find out who started what, "lets pick on the new guy they think, we don't really know him, he's never given me anything, not helped me bring up my kids, laughed at my jokes, been to a rally patted me on the back, so he's expendable, an object on a screen, to take out my daily stress upon, I'll say a few nice things, so as to seem to help, then insert a knife and twist it from time to time, he's done nothing for me."  Many of them speaking to me for the very first time, with hatred in their hearts, becasue their buddy seems to think so, as Pink Floyd sang, "Us and Them, and who knows which is which and who is who." And such is the flawed human condition!  And it's I that needs the therapy and meds???????   :lol:

I'll not continue point by point, I'm getting tired of correcting adults on the finer details of common courtesy.  You're just another in a great line of individuals that cares more about defending the transgressions of your friends, than to find out for yourself that they started the shit slinging.  Or is it that they can do no wrong, you, being "bought" for all they've done for you, such that anyone that defends themselves against them, is automatically wrong.  And I'm sorry to say that's mob mentality.  If any of my friends ever said anything improper to an innocent, I told them to rethink their position, I'll not cow to injustice no matter who wields it's sword.  It's called tough love, sometimes required at the risk of losing a friend, yet helping to ensure that the quality of that friendship is morally sound.  And that's a noble thing to do, for ALL!!!!  It's all inclusive, while your way only includes those that are valued, as being them that have already given you things, buying you, to look the other way when they step on another's toes. I DEFY YOU TO QUOTE MY INITIAL TRANSGRESSION, WHERE I STEPPED OUT OF LINE AND STEPPED PURPOSELY ON ANYONE'S TOES.  It can' be done because it never happened.  I'm being tread upon, by new people every day, purely due to their ignorance, by those that don't care or fail to know, that I'm merely defending myself against those that took liberties at being rude.  That's the problem with a mob, they're too busy throwing punches, to see that their beating a corpse, simply because he was walking through the wrong neighborhood. And the corpse stands not a chance in hell, trying to desperately catch it's breath.  So that is a forum Mob, those that chime in, in support of known friends, not allowing the two that it started with to work it out for themselves.  Not only are they unjustly screwing with the newbie, but also insulting their friend, by insinuating that they can't handle themselves, that they "require" help.  And that's just not the case here at all, I have "IN FACT" been nothing but respectful to those that have helped me, until an onlooker yelled "fire" where there was none, and the rest is just a pileup of misunderstanding and misconception.  Yet I shall fight to the death, against injustice, sick and tired of it.


all the information you need to get your motorcycle working properly.(*)  You are welcome to stick your finger down your throat afterward, but it is wildly unrealistic to expect anybody to have any sympathy for you when you feel ill and malnourished afterward.  

The fact that nobody sides with you when you subsequently blame and rail against the people who spoon-fed you?  That doesn't indicate that we are a mob and that you are being persecuted.  It indicates that you are wrong, and that you are too wrapped up in problems of your own making to realize it.  

You might want to try adjusting your carb idle mixture screws according to the instructions as before.  THOSE INSTRUCTIONS WORK.  These motorcycles are pretty simple and durable, and the folks here have 30 years of experience solving the problems that occur in them.   There's only so much good you can do with a carburetor (a.k.a. "fuel toilet") to make an air-cooled engine from the 1980's (that is based on one from the 1970's) run well, and there is only so "well" that "running well" gets for such a bike.

You might also want to talk to someone professional about other things, possibly someone with a prescription pad, because therapy and psychotropics have come a long way since "tell me about your Oedipal complex" and lithium.  Seriously, the more in-depth you go with your formatting and your fonts and indentations and quotes ` for your predicament, the more obvious it becomes that you are making your own problems.
Yet I had no problems until someone was rude to me for no just reason.  A bit funny, I'd say!


Good luck, man.

I would say thanks, but you've concocted a mixed pot of yeah's and neigh's.  I stand abused and confused!

Jo, did you get your questions answered?

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 28, 2014, 02:42:28 PM
Jo, did you get your questions answered?

Why do you ask, Pat?  I shall have many more as my parts finally come in I'm sure, why, what's up?

Just checking in to see if you understand the info that was relayed to you.

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 28, 2014, 02:51:00 PM
Just checking in to see if you understand the info that was relayed to you.

Thanks Pat, that's really nice of you, I thought you had abandoned me.  Just been busy huh?

In truth I can only proceed as the parts coming in allow, any belief that I'm incapable of understanding, or that I'm not listening to those that try and help, is purely speculation on the part of those that believe it.  Like I said originally I actually did work on aircraft, a motorcycle by comparison is relatively easy. I just really need support here and there to verify a little uncertainty, because there has been much time since those days.  Cloudy memories, fraught with holes in time.  My grandmother did die with Alzheimer's.  I'm really clear though so far, I just forget simple words for a moment, and have to rely on synonyms.

I think my carb problems was related to the float needle valves, which I'm currently waiting on.

I think much of the speculation as to my not understanding or listening is due primarily to the time it's taking me to amass enough money to buy the parts, it's indeed a slow process, they come in waves requiring a month to get the money together.  I don't have it as easy as most of you guys, and I think that's why it's hard for you's to understand, what the real problem is.

I'm sure many of you guys would have been done already.

Thanks for your concern, it's refreshing.

FJ Forever!   :drinks:

JoBrCo    

Ok, then I'm going to put this tread to bed.

Feel free to start a new thread as new questions come up.