Adjusting fuel mixture screws, and synching questions

[JoBrCo]

"If you rev the engine and it slowly returns to idle, you are too rich.
If you rev the engine and it drops down then recovers to the correct idle speed, you are too lean."

I do believe that you have this backwards.....................

If you blip the throttle, and it hangs up high then slowly returns down to idle speed, you are too LEAN.

If you blip the throttle, and it dips below idle speed, then returns back up to idle speed, you are too RICH.

Just making sure you are heading in the right direction.

Agreed!  Lean hangs up, rich dips and recovers (or dies if it's real rich!)

Well if that's true, either Davids PDF should be edited, or deleted, as the files section is somewhat of a foundation for those that want to maintain their bikes.  Maybe no one has visited his PDF for a while to know that it has a error.  Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Again, thanks for your time!

FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo   

[JoBrCo]

 If anything some of the valve springs may be a bit fatigued from being compressed for that long so I would keep it away from redline.

So you think I should replace the valve springs?  I read on another forum that one can replace both the valve springs and seals with the head in place, by simply ensuring the cylinder, one is working on, has it's piston at top dead center, thus only allowing the valve to drop until it rests on the piston.  It then can easily be pulled back up in order to compress the springs and secure the valve stem locks. However with the FJ's head/valve stem/shim design, I don't think it can be done, correct?  Head removal and gasket replacement, is required, correct?

TIA

FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo 

[Pat Conlon]

Just ride the fucker....

[FJ_Hooligan]

What Pat said!  And if it's going to be your primary transportation, don't be bouncing it off of the rev limiter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier about in and out on the the idle mixture screws being lean or rich:  

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

If you turn them one way and get one of the symptoms then TURN THEM THE OTHER WAY!  Who cares whether you're actually leaning or richening the mixture.  You simply adjust out the symptom.  If it hangs at 2 turns and doesn't at 3 turns then you've made progress.  If it stumbles at 4 turns, then go back to 3.

This is no more complicated that an underinflated tire.  The cure is to add more air.

For the record, last time I paid attention I got the symptoms described in the cleaning document.  Too far in and the revs will fall down, too far out and it will hang.  Your results will vary depending on you're idle circuit jetting.  

Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.  You know what?  You're right.  Forget everything I've said.  It's all bullshiit.  But I was riding my FJ all weekend and you weren't.  Maybe if you'd spend more time DOING what has been suggested instead of planted in front of your computer ranting on whether something is right or wrong, maybe you could convince yourself by a little experimentation of your own. 

Let's try a different path.  INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

If you want to question something, then fine do it.  BUT ONLY AFTER YOU TRY IT.  The advice available on this site has been successfully implemented by countless owners.  Try being a member of that group.  If it doesn't work for you, then post up and we will try to help figure out why you're the ONLY one it doesn't work for.  Deal?

[fj1289]

Yes, that was a direct quote - noticed that last night and am glad someone else pointed out the error too.  Yes Dr Raforth is the carb guru.  I firstearned of the blip test from him back on the Yahoo list.  Don't know if the paper was retyped or he made a single simple mistake in the 9 page write up.   I seem to remember reading part of a discussion that they couldn't edit the doc - and the pics had to be posted separately too when it was moved over from the Yahoo site.  To insure I wasn't passing bad info I googled it last night and found several examples to support lean hangs up above idle and rich drops below idle. 

That's also why I described a technique so you can find the best setting no matter which "camp" is right or wrong - and learn first hand how the adjustment effect things. 

[Firehawk068]

I certainly don't have any beef with anyone........................I prefer Bacon!

I was simply pointing out that the info you posted in your thread was backwards...............

I definately would not discredit David R.
Personally, I have read much of his advice over the years on this forum, and he could very well be the most knowledgable person when it comes to CV carbs.
I would definately go to him for advice if needed............

With that said, I am sure it is possible for someone to make a mistake while transposing information................and to have written it backwards.........If it was David himself, I am sure he was thinking the correct thing in his mind, but wrote the incorrect one instead................I've been guilty of that myself numerous times over the years.
Also, I wouldn't believe anything in a "Wiki" as being gospel unless I verified it with an accurate source.................."Wiki's" are pages that anybody, and anybody's brother can post/add information to without it being verified by anyone as being accurate..........

A whole bunch of people have given you a lot of useful information here........................One of the reasons I love this forum so much..................There are always people who are willing to step in and share their knowledge........................You have been given great advice.(my favorites in this thread so far are Pat, and FJ Hooligan).

Anyway, here's a helpful link if you haven't seen it already...............(especially step#4)http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html

I am really hoping you get your FJ sorted out...................And your life for that matter...........................Noone likes to hear of a fellow comrade who may or may not be having to make life decisions based on whether or not they can make it to their source of income, or having to juggle making a house payment or feeding themselves...........
I hope things turn around for you................And maybe you'll see us all at a rally some day.

[ribbert]

JBC, Hooligan has spent a lot of time and done a great job offering information and guidance.

However, Pat's summary offers the best advice.

If you are in dire trouble and just need transport to solve your current woes, just ride it.

If it starts, runs on 4 cylinders and idles, that's all it needs to do at the moment, you can't hurt anything if the tune is not perfect.

You do not need, I repeat, do not need new valve springs, now or in the future, move on.

I have the skills, experience and tools to have my bike running at 100%, but it never is because chasing that last bit of perfect tune takes a disproportionate amount of time and I'm just not interested.

Regarding your "Finally, someone is actually tying to help me, it's about time!!!!", comment, everyone has been trying to help you.

Just ride it and worry about fine tuning it when it's fun, not out of necessity.
Noel

[Zwartie]

Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

[Country Joe]

What Pat said!  And if it's going to be your primary transportation, don't be bouncing it off of the rev limiter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier about in and out on the the idle mixture screws being lean or rich:  

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

If you turn them one way and get one of the symptoms then TURN THEM THE OTHER WAY!  Who cares whether you're actually leaning or richening the mixture.  You simply adjust out the symptom.  If it hangs at 2 turns and doesn't at 3 turns then you've made progress.  If it stumbles at 4 turns, then go back to 3.

This is no more complicated that an underinflated tire.  The cure is to add more air.

For the record, last time I paid attention I got the symptoms described in the cleaning document.  Too far in and the revs will fall down, too far out and it will hang.  Your results will vary depending on you're idle circuit jetting.  

Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.  You know what?  You're right.  Forget everything I've said.  It's all bullshiit.  But I was riding my FJ all weekend and you weren't.  Maybe if you'd spend more time DOING what has been suggested instead of planted in front of your computer ranting on whether something is right or wrong, maybe you could convince yourself by a little experimentation of your own. 

Let's try a different path.  INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

If you want to question something, then fine do it.  BUT ONLY AFTER YOU TRY IT.  The advice available on this site has been successfully implemented by countless owners.  Try being a member of that group.  If it doesn't work for you, then post up and we will try to help figure out why you're the ONLY one it doesn't work for.  Deal?

+1 Well said and long overdue.

Joe

[JoBrCo]

Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.

And now it's time for your slap, pay fucking attention, OBVIOUSLY, I was talking to the firebird and fj9669 for taking on David Raforth's PDF.  David was the man, giving much time and effort to help people in those earlier days, which doesn't mean he can't be wrong, but those two spoke to me as if it was my screw up, if it was in fact a screw up, either way it was Davids, not mine.  Don't shoot the fucking messenger.  So those two should also 'read' before pointing fingers at someone.  I'll not accept reprimand for another's screw up.

Capeesh?

[JoBrCo]

I certainly don't have any beef with anyone........................I prefer Bacon!

I was simply pointing out that the info you posted in your thread was backwards...............

I definately would not discredit David R.
Personally, I have read much of his advice over the years on this forum, and he could very well be the most knowledgable person when it comes to CV carbs.
I would definately go to him for advice if needed............

With that said, I am sure it is possible for someone to make a mistake while transposing information................and to have written it backwards.........If it was David himself, I am sure he was thinking the correct thing in his mind, but wrote the incorrect one instead................I've been guilty of that myself numerous times over the years.
Also, I wouldn't believe anything in a "Wiki" as being gospel unless I verified it with an accurate source.................."Wiki's" are pages that anybody, and anybody's brother can post/add information to without it being verified by anyone as being accurate..........

A whole bunch of people have given you a lot of useful information here........................One of the reasons I love this forum so much..................There are always people who are willing to step in and share their knowledge........................You have been given great advice.(my favorites in this thread so far are Pat, and FJ Hooligan).

Anyway, here's a helpful link if you haven't seen it already...............(especially step#4)http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html

I am really hoping you get your FJ sorted out...................And your life for that matter...........................Noone likes to hear of a fellow comrade who may or may not be having to make life decisions based on whether or not they can make it to their source of income, or having to juggle making a house payment or feeding themselves...........
I hope things turn around for you................And maybe you'll see us all at a rally some day.

Thanks for the link, it looks like a great resource.

FJ Forever!  

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

Just ride the fucker....

Watch it!  Maybe yours is a fucker, but mine's a fuckee!

FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

Regarding your "Finally, someone is actually tying to help me, it's about time!!!!", comment, everyone has been trying to help you.

Noel

Rib don't be taking offense now, you've been great too, but I didn't mean across the board, all info, I specifically meant, that NO one has either mentioned what the priorities should be, when doing as I have been doing, nor pointed me to a resource that does so.  And at that moment, I realized that it should have been my first question, and the first bit of help offered.  But we're all getting old, aren't we?

What was my name again? Who are you? Where am I. 

Who's accountable anyway?

FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo   

[JoBrCo]

Just ride the fucker....

I vote this post of the year.

Zwartie

Which says more about you, than anyone else!

[JoBrCo]

What Pat said!  And if it's going to be your primary transportation, don't be bouncing it off of the rev limiter.

I'll repeat what I said earlier about in and out on the the idle mixture screws being lean or rich:  

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

If you turn them one way and get one of the symptoms then TURN THEM THE OTHER WAY!  Who cares whether you're actually leaning or richening the mixture.  You simply adjust out the symptom.  If it hangs at 2 turns and doesn't at 3 turns then you've made progress.  If it stumbles at 4 turns, then go back to 3.

This is no more complicated that an underinflated tire.  The cure is to add more air.

For the record, last time I paid attention I got the symptoms described in the cleaning document.  Too far in and the revs will fall down, too far out and it will hang.  Your results will vary depending on you're idle circuit jetting.  

Or maybe you guys are mistaken.  In such a situation, one has no idea which camp to believe, it's best for the two camps to sort it out, as so called authorities on the matter.

Time for a slap in the face.  You know what?  You're right.  Forget everything I've said.  It's all bullshiit.  But I was riding my FJ all weekend and you weren't.  Maybe if you'd spend more time DOING what has been suggested instead of planted in front of your computer ranting on whether something is right or wrong, maybe you could convince yourself by a little experimentation of your own.  

Let's try a different path.  INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

If you want to question something, then fine do it.  BUT ONLY AFTER YOU TRY IT.  The advice available on this site has been successfully implemented by countless owners.  Try being a member of that group.  If it doesn't work for you, then post up and we will try to help figure out why you're the ONLY one it doesn't work for.  Deal?

+1 Well said and long overdue.

Joe

And if that's all they got to say, choosing this particular moment to say it, then obviously it can only be understood that those fools shine on!

Why, one might ask?

"Bosses get talking so tough, and if that wasn't evil enough;
we get the drunkin and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride"

--Rush - Territories - Power Windows--

That's why!