Adjusting fuel mixture screws, and synching questions

[JPaganel]

Aux tank I use:



Cost me a bottle of vodka and a $3 elbow from Home depot to epoxy into it.

[Firehawk068]

I use one of these..............................




Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99 

[JPaganel]

I use one of these..............................

Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99 

Yeah, but you didn't get a bunch of drinks out of it. 

[JoBrCo]

Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   


JoBrCo 

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

What were your results from riding with the mixture screws adjusted to different positions? 
I haven't done that yet, I just followed Hooli's advice and set them all to 3 turns out, until I purchase the ColorTune.  For me, a sufferer of Anxiety, that's the only way I'll feel safe with my wife on board. I just hope I listened to the right person.


1. What is your initial setting?
3 turns out!

What is your impression of how it performs at that setting?
Not great! As far as I remember it's not as good as it was 19 years ago, but I could be wrong, that was a long time ago for me.

2.  What setting did you try next?
I haven't, I'm waiting for the ColorTune so as to be 100% sure what each carb should be.  I promise to let you know then.

What was your impression of performance at that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the initial setting?
See above

3.  What setting did you try next?
See above

What was your impression of that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the settings in 1. and 2. above?
See above

I don't know how that would help me, but thanks anyway, I always appreciate one's time, as that's the one thing almost all of us shall want more of.  I know I shall.

Have a good one!

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

Aux tank I use:



Cost me a bottle of vodka and a $3 elbow from Home depot to epoxy into it.

Awesome, but aren't you worried that those components you used will fail because they may not be ethanol proof?

I don't know that they're not, but that's one of the things worrying me with being creative at engineering a temp tank.

I read an article that said that the Ethanol in E10 actually dissolved the resin portion of fiberglass fuel tanks used in many boats and deposited the polystyrene, apparently that's what the resin yields when broken down with ethanol, on the engines valves and blew it up.

This is a second hand story that I have no way of verifying, but it's enough to make me wary.  Of course your mileage may very.

Thanks for your time.


FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

I use one of these..............................




Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99 

I don't know if I'd use that, for fear.  Read my response to JPaganel to know why.

But I must say those carbs are IMPRESSIVE indeed.  It almost looks like you've photoshopped them, WOW!  NICE!  Are those things Sterling?  They sure look like it.  Talk about showroom!

Nice clean shop too, You should see my crappy hole of a garage, you would laugh your ass off, and rightfully so.


Thanks for your time, it's the most valuable gift you can give someone.


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

You last two posters, thanks for showing me your setups, as they have given me ideas.  And that's what I need, so I understand what ballpark I need to be in.

FJ Forever!   

JoBrCo

[FJ_Hooligan]

Awesome, but aren't you worried that those components you used will fail because they may not be ethanol proof?

I don't know that they're not, but that's one of the things worrying me with being creative at engineering a temp tank.

I wouldn't worry about the components (we know the bottle will hold ethanol just fine :-).  It's just a temporary sync tank.  The fuel will only be in there a few minutes before it gets drained out and put away until next use.

[Firehawk068]

I use one of these..............................




Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99 

I don't know if I'd use that, for fear.  Read my response to JPaganel to know why.

But I must say those carbs are IMPRESSIVE indeed.  It almost looks like you've photoshopped them, WOW!  NICE!  Are those things Sterling?  They sure look like it.  Talk about showroom!

Nice clean shop too, You should see my crappy hole of a garage, you would laugh your ass off, and rightfully so.


Thanks for your time, it's the most valuable gift you can give someone.


FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

I have used this "Coolant Recovery Tank" as an auxiliary fuel tank numerous times without fear of the ethanol doing anything to it...................It contains neither fiberglass, or resin.............It is made from the same material that portable gas cans are made of, only somewhat see-thru....................

The shiny carbs you see in this picture are the "then brand new" rack of carbs that I bought from fellow member Bob W about 4 and a half years ago.........................They were shiny new right out of the box, and the first time ever they had fuel in them when this picture was taken(the very day that Erich V, and I hit the highway from Phoenix AZ to Willits CA for the 2010 WCR)...........................I assure you they are currently somewhat dirtier at present....

Also, the shop isn't as clean and organized as this picture might lead one to believe.........................

[Firehawk068]

I use one of these..............................

Purchased at Autozone for around $7.99 

Yeah, but you didn't get a bunch of drinks out of it. 

I might have............................before I put fuel in it.

[fj1289]

Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   


JoBrCo 

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

What were your results from riding with the mixture screws adjusted to different positions? 
I haven't done that yet, I just followed Hooli's advice and set them all to 3 turns out, until I purchase the ColorTune.  For me, a sufferer of Anxiety, that's the only way I'll feel safe with my wife on board. I just hope I listened to the right person.


1. What is your initial setting?
3 turns out!

What is your impression of how it performs at that setting?
Not great! As far as I remember it's not as good as it was 19 years ago, but I could be wrong, that was a long time ago for me.

2.  What setting did you try next?
I haven't, I'm waiting for the ColorTune so as to be 100% sure what each carb should be.  I promise to let you know then.

What was your impression of performance at that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the initial setting?
See above

3.  What setting did you try next?
See above

What was your impression of that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the settings in 1. and 2. above?
See above

I don't know how that would help me, but thanks anyway, I always appreciate one's time, as that's the one thing almost all of us shall want more of.  I know I shall.

Have a good one!

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

It helps you by telling you how to find the best mixture (which is where the bike runs its best) on your own without having to spend money on something you don't need in order to get the job right.

Every engine is going to want/need a slightly different idle mixture.  There is no one answer fits all.  Even with the colortune it isn't going to be clear cut.   How blue how yellow is the mixture that is right for your engine?  You won't know until you find the right mixture first!  How will you know it's right?  It's where it runs best.  How do you find that?  By changing them a little at a time and testing them.   It is a very basic application of the scientific principle. 

Are you absolutely sure the carbs are clean?  All is for not if they are not

[Flynt]

I originally thought you were one of the intelligent ones here...

I'm done...

Frank

[JoBrCo]

Awesome, but aren't you worried that those components you used will fail because they may not be ethanol proof?

I don't know that they're not, but that's one of the things worrying me with being creative at engineering a temp tank.

I wouldn't worry about the components (we know the bottle will hold ethanol just fine :-).  It's just a temporary sync tank.  The fuel will only be in there a few minutes before it gets drained out and put away until next use.

We? Are you's two neighbors?  Actually I was referring more to the epoxy, and how it might hold up to the ethanol.  And I thought the bottle was plastic.  Also I didn't realize that the vodka was exactly the same as the current E10 fuel blend.  But then I'm really just a beer drinker, I don't mess with the hard stuff much.  Not anymore, that was a very long time ago.


FJ Forever!

JoBrCo

[JoBrCo]

Guys I 'only' came here for help from kind people.  I know how the trials and tribulations of daily living, can test us, just look at my situation, I'm going mad here, dealing with this crap, my wife too.  Not everyone can give help, for many reasons.  I would seriously appreciate, only those truly interested in giving help, respond to any of my posts. Those that like to kick dead things, or those things they wish were dead, for what ever reason, I would ask to move along, and leave me alone.  My wife and I really don't need any more heartache, THANK YOU!


FJ Forever!   


JoBrCo 

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

George S. Patton

You can definately drive yourself crazy and way overthink things trying to make each and every detail of an FJ the pinnacle of perfection. 

Tuning an aircooled dinosaur in the real world is really and truely about "good enough".   What is "good enough" is going to vary depending on how finicky a person is and to what degree they have modified things.    A stock FJ being used for commuter duties and weekend enjoyment has a very wide range of "good enough".  A highly modified FJ used with more serious intent has a much smaller window of "good enough".   

I'd say for anyone that is a new owner of a fairly stock FJ there are a few things to start with to make sure you are working from a good baseline.  Get a manual.  Get a new valve cover gasket, new valve cover bolt grommets, oil filter, oil, and a battery (unless it can be proved to be fairly new and I good condition) and a BUNCH of carb cleaner.  The replacement carb hardware and o-rings would also be wise (and may become a necessity depended on whether there are issues removing the old hardware).  Actually, the o-rings should be mandatory too. 

Clean the carbs.  Adjust the valves.  Clean the carbs.  Charge the battery and change the oil.  And then clean the carbs and you should be ready to get started with getting the new to you FJ running as it should.   

Get it started and warmed up to temp.  Adjust the idle as best you can.  Synch the carbs.  Go back to the idle.  Synch again if desired.  Adjust the idle if desired.  But don't be looking for perfection now -- you just want an engine that idles reliably and responds predictably to YOUR inputs.  Ride it for a few days then try tweaking the idle screws in or a a quarter turn.  Ride it for a few days and see how you do or don't like the change.  Tweak them another quarter turn in be same direction.   See how you like it.  Keep going until it runs as well as you want or it runs poorly.  In that case start going in the other direction until it runs as well as you want or runs poorly.  You will find that range of "good enough" and will know where in that range you are happiest. 

The most important thing is only change one thing at a time.   Write down what you changed.  Evaluate it.  Write down your observations.   Change one thing.  Evaluate it.   Write down your observations.   Repeat until things run to your satisfaction -- or in the case of a highly modified FJ -- until it runs as well as it can in the areas where it wasn't built for, and yanks your arms out in the areas it was built for!

A stock motored FJ is a good solid platform to learn the basics of tuning on - they are solid and dependable and very forgiving.   I'd also suggest to anyone not to start down the road of engine mods faster than your tuning knowledge and experience grows. 

What were your results from riding with the mixture screws adjusted to different positions? 
I haven't done that yet, I just followed Hooli's advice and set them all to 3 turns out, until I purchase the ColorTune.  For me, a sufferer of Anxiety, that's the only way I'll feel safe with my wife on board. I just hope I listened to the right person.


1. What is your initial setting?
3 turns out!

What is your impression of how it performs at that setting?
Not great! As far as I remember it's not as good as it was 19 years ago, but I could be wrong, that was a long time ago for me.

2.  What setting did you try next?
I haven't, I'm waiting for the ColorTune so as to be 100% sure what each carb should be.  I promise to let you know then.

What was your impression of performance at that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the initial setting?
See above

3.  What setting did you try next?
See above

What was your impression of that setting?
See above

How did it compare to the settings in 1. and 2. above?
See above

I don't know how that would help me, but thanks anyway, I always appreciate one's time, as that's the one thing almost all of us shall want more of.  I know I shall.

Have a good one!

FJ Forever! 

JoBrCo

It helps you by telling you how to find the best mixture (which is where the bike runs its best) on your own without having to spend money on something you don't need in order to get the job right.

Every engine is going to want/need a slightly different idle mixture.  There is no one answer fits all.  Even with the colortune it isn't going to be clear cut.   How blue how yellow is the mixture that is right for your engine?  You won't know until you find the right mixture first!  How will you know it's right?  It's where it runs best.  How do you find that?  By changing them a little at a time and testing them.   It is a very basic application of the scientific principle. 

Are you absolutely sure the carbs are clean?  All is for not if they are not

I may not be a pro at this bike, but there are things I know.  For instance the colortune device is in fact the best solution for knowing ones air/fuel mixture.  And that's a fact. Which this screw we're talking about seems to not deal with, or so many have said so.  And I'm not saying they're wrong, because I don't know that for sure.  How do I know about the color tune?  From several other sources.  First I learned a long time ago from a natural gas specialist that was installing a stove, that explained that when a burner burns yellow it means that the gas is present in the flame, that it's not burning completely, which can be dangerous, that one wants a blue flame, which means that it is burning clean, that there is no gas present.  Then later when my buddy taught me how to use an acetylene torch.  First you turn on the acetylene to light it, it burns yellow, then you add the oxygen, and it turns blue, different shades depending upon how much O2 you add.  That all is the same thing here, an air/fuel ratio.  When an engine burns blue you are getting the best gas mileage possible without burning too lean which is hard on the engine.  Also it gives you a definite starting place for each carb.  Set them all to just blue, then adjust from there, if you want to. Knowing that your adjustment will be exactly the same either way (rich/lean) if you turn the screws the same amount, in the same direction.

Of course your mileage may vary, everyone should use the method they feel more comfortable with.  And I feel more comfortable with the colortune.  There is no affront to your person intended.  As Dave Mason sang:  "There is no good guy, there is no bad guy, there's only you and me, and we just disagree."


FJ Forever!

JoBrCo

[Steve_in_Florida]

I originally thought you were one of the intelligent ones here...

I'm done...

Frank

Congrats, JoBrCo.

You're successfully alienating yourself from some of the finest people I've had the pleasure to meet.

If this is what you intend, then carry on. Otherwise, you might want to chill for a while and read some past threads on the subjects you're asking about. None of your questions are new, after all.

Just tryin' to keep the peace.

Steve