FJ1346 from ashes to... Well, we'll see...

[ribbert]

On the 90 (and I'm guessing the 87-90 model years) there is no EASY WAY to just remove the main fairing from
the support frame with the fairing support frame still attached to the bike. DO NOT try what I did and pull every
single screw out of the thing trying to separate it from the support frame. (Maybe the 91+ fairing is different,
but this doesn't work for the 90)  What you end up with is a very mobile fairing plastic that is still attached by
the blind nuts holding the headlight in place. Of course if you don't know this you end up with this.

The reason so many take it off the hard way is because the manual describes it so and this method is repeatedly passed of from existing to new members everytime someone asks.
I took mine off like that the first time but once all was revealed it became obvious the manual instructions were making hard work of it.
My question is, why remove the fairing at all to do the valves?

Noel

[rktmanfj]

Some wear being good wear? On a brand new engine that is tighter than its machining tolerances allow it to stay, it will settle down and loosen up, wear itself in. That is what break-in is. If we could avoid that, I think one would want to (in theory) (the engine would probably need to be made/rebuilt in response to that if it were possible, but it's not, so it's all theoretical; but the engine will continue to get 'more relaxed' until the day it runs out of compression). But as what I pointed to says, it is simply untrue that synthetics are 'more slippery' than conventional oils. That's not a benefit of synthetic oil. Synthetic oil just degrades slower, basically, because it requires less additives. So I don't know why one would think 'it won't get the good wear if I use synthetics' would be the belief that it is slipperier.

But then I have to ask: good wear? I mean, necessary wear, a part of the process wear, but I don't know about the term 'good wear'. But I guess that's a separate question. Good wear or not, there's no reason I know of that synthetic oil should change how it wears... It will just change the rate at which the oil goes bad.

I could understand, though, an argument for using cheaper oils for the break-in, since you don't use the oil long enough to make the oil go bad and see the difference between the two. That'd be about all I could imagine for honest justification, though.

I have no idea what a lot of this means...   

But you definitely DO want break-in wear to occur, otherwise the rings would never seal properly.

'Slippery' is a tricky term when it comes to oil.   http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2950936

Amsoil even offers a specific break-in oil: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2881.pdf

[Arnie]

Ribbert said, "it became obvious the manual instructions were making hard work of it.
My question is, why remove the fairing at all to do the valves?"

The manual description of how to remove the fairing seemed to be such hard work, that I have never removed mine.
I bought it in '97 with 35K kms and it now has over 135K kms.  I've replaced brake lines, added heated grips, headlight relay, rebuilt forks, replaced steering head bearings, replaced headlight globes, and replaced the horn with a different unit that required a new mount bracket, and I have mirrors with turn indicators and have had driving lights, and do have LED daytime running lights.  All of that was done with the main fairing in place.

Now that Noel (thanks mate) has posted pics of the 4 bolts needed to remove the fairing and frame, I will pull it if only to figure out why my headlight adjusters don't work properly when I get a spare round toit.

Almost everything you might need to do in the fairing is possible without removing it.

Arnie

[skymasteres]

My question is, why remove the fairing at all to do the valves?

Noel

There is NO reason to completely remove the fairing to do work on valves. But, since I am a strong believer in
minimizing down time and planning maintenance, I took it off so that I could put a fuse panel and a bunch of
relays up in there. Of course while I had it off I found several cracks on mounting tabs, brackets and the like.
So I'll be doing some more plastic welding to put it all back together. I've been getting REALLY lucky lately with
finding things before they go south badly. I need to get ahead of the curve so I don't have something
catastrophic happen. (Like having the center stand come off and jam in the wheel...)

SKIP BELOW IF YOU WANT TO AVOID LOOOOONG BOORING DISCUSSIONS ABOUT ENGINE BREAK IN AND OIL THEORY

Some wear being good wear?

I would have thought that this was obvious.

On a brand new engine that is tighter than its machining tolerances allow it to stay, it will settle down and loosen up, wear itself in. That is what break-in is.

You just answered your own question.

If we could avoid that, I think one would want to (in theory) (the engine would probably need to be made/rebuilt in response to that if it were possible, but it's not, so it's all theoretical; but the engine will continue to get 'more relaxed' until the day it runs out of compression).

This is only true to a point. There are MANY factors that determine what the tolerances are inside an internal
combustion engine. As precise as you are able to be while building it, once the engine warms up everything
changes and if you didn't adjust for that you're sunk. Fortunately you don't have to understand all of the physics
involved to successfully rebuild an engine. I mean, it's not like the engine won't run if you dork up a tolerance
slightly here or there. It's actually amazing how badly an engine can be out of "tolerance" and still run.

You need to think about what surfaces are wearing during break in.

You have the rings and cylinder walls that are made out of the same material and make actual metal to metal
contact. There is some oil there, but it is not adequate for the rings to ride on an oil film like the journal bearings
that the crankshaft rides on. In an ideal world the crankshaft will never touch the bearings while the engine is
running. The rings aren't the only areas where metal to metal contact can happen, but they are the most critical
for engine break in. 

Imagine that the cylinder walls are a file made out of cast iron, this is what the crosshatching from the honing
creates, and that the rings are passing over this surface as the engine is running. The pressure created from
combustion forces the rings tightly against the cylinder wall and they are "filed" as they travel up and down.



But, the caveat here is that since the cylinder walls are the same material, the "file" wears as well and the peaks
are rounded off. As this whole process is happening you have oil from the crankcase being splashed on the cylinder
walls filling the voids in the crosshatching. But, because of the size of the voids initially, the area that is in contact
with the rings providing a seal is too small to stop combustion gasses from passing by the rings and down the
cylinder walls. The CRITICAL time in "break in" is this phase where the cylinder wall and the rings wear together to
the point where there is "just enough" space for oil to sit in the cylinder wall to provide lubrication while there is
enough contact area with the rings to provide a good seal. The challenges to this are the heat generated while this
metal on metal contact is happening. From my experience here the amount of heat the engine generated in those
short break in runs was phenomenal.





The reason the time issue comes into play is the oil that is left on the cylinder walls during the break in. If it collects
in the groves in the cylinder walls and burns in place it effectively eliminates the place for the oil to sit and lubricate.
You end up with a non-lubricating insulator that has poor friction characteristics. Sure the engine will still run, but it
will run hotter and loose more power to friction than it would have otherwise.
(Remember frictional losses go up roughly by the square of RPM)

But as what I pointed to says, it is simply untrue that synthetics are 'more slippery' than conventional oils. That's not a benefit of synthetic oil. Synthetic oil just degrades slower, basically, because it requires less additives. So I don't know why one would think 'it won't get the good wear if I use synthetics' would be the belief that it is slipperier.

The main difference between FULL synthetic and conventional is the base stock they are made from. (I'm not going to talk
about blends because they only have to be 5% pure synthetic to be labeled that way) Synthetic base stocks are uniform
in molecular weight. Conventional are an average of weights. So, with 10w-30, you have a pour weight of 10 and an
additives package assisting the operating temp weight of 30.  In the conventional you have a multi-viscosity base that is
not all uniformly 10w. Some of it is 0w, 5w, 15w, 20w or any number of different weights. It's an average of 10w though.
With the synthesized base stock you have a consistent 10w oil.

This doesn't seem significant until you start to heat the oil and look at their properties as the temperature increases.
In conventional oil this behavior depends on how much of the oil is of what weight. With the synthetic there is a more
predictable change in viscosity with respect temperature increase. Because of this the quantities of long chain synthetic
polymers required in the additives package for synthetic oil is greatly reduced. This is the single greatest reason for the
increased oil change intervals recommended for synthetic oils. Because the oil is composed of fewer additives (5-15%
verse 25-40% for conventional) the "oil"  lasts longer. It's not the oil that breaks down, but the additives package that
breaks down because of all of the shearing that happens inside the engine. All those long chain polymers get cut shorter
and shorter reducing their ability to hold the viscosity where it needs to be. When the viscosity breaks down your film
thicknesses drop and you start having contact where you shouldn't and friction goes up. It's not so much that synthetic
is "slipperier", it's that it is more stable with respect to temperature and has a smaller percentage by volume of additives.
Therefore it can do what it's supposed to do better...

Good wear or not, there's no reason I know of that synthetic oil should change how it wears... It will just change the rate at which the oil goes bad.

Definitely right on the how it wears, just off on the rate of wear.  Spot on with how the oil goes bad though. 
(Holy crap. I can go on for days with this stuff. There are SOOO many reasons to run synthetic vs. conventional it's not even funny.
It's just the time with respect to seating the rings that makes it a less than desirable choice for first run.)

END REDICULOUSLY LONG BREAK IN/OIL RANT

I've replaced brake lines, added heated grips, headlight relay, rebuilt forks, replaced steering head bearings, replaced headlight globes, and replaced the horn with a different unit that required a new mount bracket, and I have mirrors with turn indicators and have had driving lights, and do have LED daytime running lights.  All of that was done with the main fairing in place.
Almost everything you might need to do in the fairing is possible without removing it.
Arnie

Arnie, thanks for the comment. I'm sure you're right. But I'll give you guys a teaser as to why the fairing had to be removed from the frame.


Not clear enough?




I know it doesn't look like much but I am trying to mount an fuse panel in the fairing frame to run all of the relays I'm putting up there.

Here's a view from the inside.




It's a work in progress. But I'm really tired of the dim headlights. I want to be able to see this difference...




Pulled shamelessly from Charlie-brm's post.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9618.0

[The General]

quote: "(Holy crap. I can go on for days with this stuff. There are SOOO many reasons to run synthetic vs. conventional it's not even funny":unquote

Please do go on...I`m enjoying the clarity, but more importantly the civility of the contribution...I hadn`t thought about backpressure on rings being forced outwards, (never googled it either) I thought it was mainly spring pressure (durrh). Also interested in what really happens with the rocking motion of the piston. I`m assuming that indirectly contributes to the the oval shape of the barrels sometimes, so guessing pre ignition kinda at least doubles it...When you google pinging (or pinking) regarding pre ignition you get something like this http://www.peugeotlogic.com/info/info1.htm.. but I keep thinking that rocking motion plays a role..but apparently not...I digress...enjoyed your post. 

[skymasteres]

Also interested in what really happens with the rocking motion of the piston. I`m assuming that indirectly contributes to the the oval shape of the barrels sometimes, so guessing pre ignition kinda at least doubles it...When you google pinging (or pinking) regarding pre ignition you get something like this http://www.peugeotlogic.com/info/info1.htm.. but I keep thinking that rocking motion plays a role..but apparently not...I digress...enjoyed your post. 

You know the oval tendency that cylinders tend to develop is mainly a factor of the geometry of the
reciprocating assembly. As it so happens the pre-ignition image from your link helps to demonstrate the
cause of the oval shape quite nicely. Look at the angle that the connecting rod is at. (I know it's
extreem here but it's a good image for concept.)





If you look at the forces in play it's actually really simple to understand why cylinders develop this
characteristic oval shape.  This is where discussion of connecting rod length vs. stroke usually begin and
what they are talking about when you hear the term "connecting rod ratio" There are many arguments to
be made of both sides of the issue, but the point is moot unless you actually intend to change it. 

/*In the beginning stages, more like concept, of this build I ran down the idea of offset grinding the
crankshaft while I was  getting it lightened and balanced. The original plan was to give the engine an
additional 5mm of stroke and to use a slightly shorter connecting rod. (I don't have my figures handy but
I think I was shooting for something in the 1500cc range on an 81mm bore. I ended up with the stock
stroke and an 82mm bore for 1346cc) */

I ended up not going this route after learning that with the "missing" bearing these cranks are more susceptible
to damage from secondary vibrations. In other words, in all of my research, I came across six different people
that had offset ground the FJ1200 crankshaft to give between 4 and 7mm of additional stroke that had
crankshafts crack at that point. The impression I got after talking to a couple of them what that it wasn't the
load that was killing the crank, but the harmonics created by undamped vibrations.

Getting back to ovals, that's also why in modern pistons the skirts are so abbreviated on the sides perpendicular
to the piston pins. There are hadly any thrust loads on the sides so there is no reason to incur the multiple
penalties of having the material there. (Mass and friction mostly)

But I drigress. That's why cylinders become ovals....

How about just a quick list of why I think synthetic oil is better than conventional.  

1.  Uniform base stock. It maintains viscosity as temperature increases much better than conventional.
The big difference is as you heat up conventional oil its viscosity tends to plummet, verses synthetic where it
is so much more stable it's sometimes referred to as non-Newtonian oil.

2. Lower additives percentage by volume. Since there are fewer additives required to modify viscosity there
is more oil performing actual lubrication. Also there are fewer additives to get chopped up by the engine and
thus the "oil" lasts longer. (It's really the additives package that lasts longer)

3. Oxidation resistance. Synthetic oil is more resistant to oxidation thanks to its uniform base stock. With
conventional oil you end up with much lighter oil molecules in the mix that are more volatile and oxidize turning
into nasty byproducts that sludge up engines and leave acids in the oil.

4. No sludge. Kind of touched on above, but because they are more resistant to reacting with combustion gas
and creating nasty byproducts there is less crud trapped in the bottom end of the engine. The cleaner engine
maintains better tolerances and allows the oil to better do its job.

5. Higher temperature tolerance. Synthetic oils tend to maintain their oil films at much higher temperatures
than similarly graded conventional stocks. This is a factor that also aids its oxidation resistance. The main
thing allowing for higher film strength is the uniform nature of the base stock and the lower additives quantity.
More oil is doing what oil should. (I know this property alone saved a V-8 of mine)

You know, when I asked to have the "old wives tale" explained to me, I was actually open to having my mind
blown with some sort of information or fact that I didn't know. I mean, sometimes you find something out that
flies so contrary to what you "know" that's really so exciting.... it blows your mind.   People have a tendency
to get so caught up in the dogma and tradition of things that they can't be open to what is, and what isn't.
I don't have a horse in the Synthetic vs. Conventional race. I just want to do what's best for the longevity
and performance of this engine...

Speaking of blowing minds...

Copper is non-magnetic right? And steel, or metals with iron in them are affected by magnets. But conventional
wisdom tells you that if you use a magnet on a piece of steel there will be an attractive force. Likewise there
will be no attractive force if you use the same magnet on a piece of aluminum or copper. Now take a copper
tube and drop a nut through it. The nut falls with an acceleration of gravity. But when you take the same
copper tube and drop a magnet though it....

http://youtu.be/G7ysnXH53Wo

BLEW MY MIND

Okay, I'll admit, I was the dummy going "well of course it's going to drop straight through. Copper's not magnetic.....huh?"   
I mean, I understand all of the principles that dictate why this happens, but I was so caught up in the copper is not
magnetic that I ignored what all of the principles I knew that, if applied correctly, would have allowed me to anticipate
what the magnet actually did...

I was so impressed that I went home that day and took a 1/4" copper tube and dropped a 3/16" neodynium magnet through it...
It took 30 seconds for the magnet to pass through the 24" tube... WOW. 

[ribbert]

Almost everything you might need to do in the fairing is possible without removing it.

Arnie

Including removing and refitting the motor.

[ribbert]

/quote]

To be fair to Arnie and myself, who both queried why you would remove the fairing to do the valves, you did say this.

[Derek Young]

Is that fuse panel in a location where you need to remove the fairing to access it Michael? If so, you may want to choose another location.

Derek

[Dazza57]

Great thread guys, apologies if I'm outta line, but the bit about removing the fairing got me hooked. The first time I wanted to remove the fairing, I didn't check the manual, just looked around and undid the 4 bolts (after removing the side scoops), easy. Have done this 3 times now as I mod/fix things. All good.
Interesting all the stuff about oils, gonna stick with dino oil for the time being 

[skymasteres]

Okay, what to do with a four day weekend and time alone in the cave of wonders? Oh yeah, spent it modding the FJ. 

I spite of how much I didn't want to I dove back in under the valve cover to fix the number 4 exhaust clearance.
(I can't believe that I left one at 0.015 That's so unnecessary) Although I can't really complain, it's a lot easier than doing it on a V-4.

I really had her stripped down so I could use the shim kit and get the valve lash adjusted.

To be fair to Arnie and myself, who both queried why you would remove the fairing to do the valves, you did say this.

Yeah, you're right. My apologies. It's the wiring I was doing to get brighter headlights and what not.

Is that fuse panel in a location where you need to remove the fairing to access it Michael? If so, you may want to choose another location.

Derek

Derek, I appreciate the concern. As it stands I thought LONG and HARD about where the best place to put the
auxiliary fuse panel.  The biggest factor was how to optimize it for the bike. I wanted ease of access, short wire
runs, and a minimal number of connections. What I ended up with was a 40 hour long mod process because I
had to do some re-thinking on the fly, and didn't have it fully understood. (I was terribly surprised by the "hot"
horn issue)

The cool thing is, in putting the fuse panel where I have it, it's even easier to access than it would have been under
the seat. That and I can just about eliminate the voltage drop by running two 8ga wires from the battery up to the
panel. Then everything else is just a short hop to get the relay it's powering. It also pretty much total occupies ALL
of the free space inside the right hand side of the fairing. It leaves just enough clearance to get a socket on the
headlight bolt and stays out of the way of the forks.





Those Adel clamps work REALLY well as well. I am very pleased with the way they hold the panel and relays in place.

With the location of the fuse panel set I needed to come up with a spot to put the rest of the relays. (Horn, ignition,
and accessory) Since I have removed my "Republik of Kalifornia" emissions equipment I have a little "extra" space
where it used to reside. Then it dawned on me, that with the built in mounting tab on the relays, I had the perfect
place to mount them.




I have taps off of the park and run positions of the ignition switch, blue and brown respectively, as well as taps supplying
power to the coils. This way I don't have to cut anything and can return it to stock very easily.  The relays remain secured
and out of the way while solving my other problem of having a good ground for everything on the body side of the system.
(I already have a grounding block on the fairing support frame) There are some interesting issues that have come up with
the way the coils interact if I leave the power wires hooked up so for the moment they are left disconnected. (Once I fully
chart the new circuit and understand what is going on I may try fixing it with some diodes)

Great thread guys, apologies if I'm outta line, but the bit about removing the fairing got me hooked. The first time I wanted
to remove the fairing, I didn't check the manual, just looked around and undid the 4 bolts (after removing the side scoops),
easy. Have done this 3 times now as I mod/fix things. All good.
Interesting all the stuff about oils, gonna stick with dino oil for the time being 

You know that's a perfectly valid choice. Conventional oil has made things go round since before I was around. If you
change it on a more intensive schedule than the synthetic you really aren't loosing anything other than the oxidation and
temperature extreme resistance.  Heck, it's been well documented that if you've been running an engine long term on
conventional that switching over to synthetic can cause a myriad of problems...

[skymasteres]

Okay I'm back. (Sometimes work grabs you by the B*lls and says no to free time)
As I'm working on these mods I'm also doing routine maintenance. Stuff like lubing the chain. Normally lubricating
and checking your chain adjustment is a routine thing. But something just felt slightly off when I was inspecting it.
I didn't catch it at first, but after a more thurogh inspection I discovered this.




No I supposed I could launch into the whole, one of these things is not like the other, but I was just floored. There
was the master link plate just sitting there with nothing holding it in place. That link could have just come undone at
any time. (It really gives me the willies just thinking about how bad it would have been if it at come off in 5th gear
at 8300rpm.



This is what it is supposed to look like. I think next time around I am going with a riveted chain. (I have definitely been
getting really lucky with all of the stuff falling off or breaking that it hasn't been worse.)

I'm telling you, it feels like the more I work on this fairing the more I find broken on it. These are the spots on the main
fairing that I had to go after to fix the broken stuff.





The headlight bracket was a fantastic pain in the rear as usual and I ended up using ice cubes to cool down that really thin
plastic and speed the repair along.





Since I spent so much time with the thinker in overdrive "Whinnie the Poo" style I figured once I did have it figured out
I'd really wire it up right. Which of course involved the very exacting process of getting all of the wire lengths right and
bundling them all together. This is the back side of my "instrument" panel. It just holds the oil temperature gauge, my
USB ports, and the little auxiliary switch that allows me to activate the USB charger without the key in place.
(As it stands it currently back feeds into the temp gauge, but it's on the list of things to fix)




Getting all of the runs right meant that I couldn't remount the fairing support with the fairing attached. Here is the aux
panel with the wires hooked up. (Yeah I know I went a little overboard with the wire gauges.)  You can see the
grounding block for the fairing support frame in this shot as well. (The one on the ignition module bolt was removed
because the coil mount worked out so well.)





Back to the main frame with the rest of the relays and you see that I have everything tied up nice and neat so that it
should stay out and secure. (Working with guys that put instrumentation into fighter jets helps sometimes)





When FJMonkey came over last Friday for some "Manshed" time he gave me this perfectly marvelous idea to wrap the
headlight adjuster in silicone take after filling it with grease. Well my headlight adjuster was broken on both ends so the
repair was a little more involved. I took a 1/4" universal joint and punched out the pins. With that done I had to grind
down the pivot block slightly to fit into the "Monkey Made" square drive end. 



The other bit of frustration came from trying to solder the male end of the 1/4" adapter to the adjuster shaft. It ended
up failing the first time I assembled it so I ended up brazing it with brass.



This was the finished product all wrapped up and ready to be put back in.




With all of the plastic welding complete and my fairing restored, more or less, to its fully serviceable condition it was time
to re-mount the support frame.  Here you can see all of the new wiring and parts that are now part of the fairing electrical. 
(And yes that is a ceramic plug for the 90/130w bulb that's in there)




Once it's mounted to the bike the two power feeds and one ground are hooked up completing the circuits.
(The ground screw and breakers are accessible once you turn the forks full lock to the left.) 

The electrical that remains on the bike with the fairing off is just for the horn, accessory, and ignition relays.






Here I have the fairing mounted to the frame with everything hooked up. I had to unhook the power wires for the ignition
coils because the headlights would stay on when the key was turned on. (again, back feeding though the circuit and keeping
the relays energized) 




Here is a shot of the aux panel from underneath showing another way to get to it.

[Arnie]

Nice, neat, tidy electricals.
I might have to actually remove my fairing to clean up my act.

Arnie

[andyb]

Wrap a piece of safety wire around your clip link.  It makes for a very easy thing to see on visual inspection.

If you have the option, a gold/chrome/colored master link is very easy to spot if the rest of the chain is a different finish, as well.

[JMR]

 You need to use more zip ties.