FJ1346 from ashes to... Well, we'll see...

[FJmonkey]

It's all about the inertia. If you look at the mechanics of how the shift drum moves the shift forks you can see that the
shift lever that you engage with your foot only does half of the work completing the shift. The mechanism that completes
the shift is the spring loaded lever that rides on the petals of the shift drum. When you push the shift lever it loads up
that spring as the roller rides up the uphill side of the petal. When it passes the peak, the spring forces the roller down
the other side spinning the drum quickly moving the shift forks and gears respectively completing the shift.

The part of the process with the greatest impact, aside from friction, is the inertia of the drum that the spring and roller
has to ever come. If you lighten the drum, you decrease the energy required to rotate the drum...

I love this mechanical engineering talk..... My native language...

[Pat Conlon]

Ok, thanks guys. I learned something today...gotta love this forum.

[ribbert]

It's all about the inertia. If you look at the mechanics of how the shift drum moves the shift forks you can see that the
shift lever that you engage with your foot only does half of the work completing the shift. The mechanism that completes
the shift is the spring loaded lever that rides on the petals of the shift drum. When you push the shift lever it loads up
that spring as the roller rides up the uphill side of the petal. When it passes the peak, the spring forces the roller down
the other side spinning the drum quickly moving the shift forks and gears respectively completing the shift.

The part of the process with the greatest impact, aside from friction, is the inertia of the drum that the spring and roller
has to ever come. If you lighten the drum, you decrease the energy required to rotate the drum...

Aren't the spring and the roller already designed to adequately provide that force?

I'm curious to know what difference you expect from it on the road.

Noel

[skymasteres]

Aren't the spring and the roller already designed to adequately provide that force?

I'm curious to know what difference you expect from it on the road.

Noel

Well, to be honest, I am not expecting any discernible improvement from this modification.
(something that could be said about a lot of the processes I have applied)
I think it might make the for snappier shifts and perhaps slightly less wear on the transmission.
But other than that nothing. I don't have enough experience with this modification to say otherwise.
It's more of a "I'm there already, I can, and why the heck not" kind of thing.

[skymasteres]

Okay, I guess I am going to have to cave to the crowd and say that I am thoroughly unimpressed with APE racing as a shop.
I mean, this is the second job that they have done for me that they have failed to complete to even, in my opinion, the most
basic level of satisfaction. The first one being the crankshaft balancing that they removed the crankshaft numbers without
writing them down. (This came up in the argument that I had with them and they said "that never happens. We ALWAYS write
those numbers down on the balance sheet)

So, I'll just go over the order of events and let you be the judge.

Warning, long boring narrative ahead...

Me: Brought my coated gears and shafts back to APE to get them reassembled. (Like previously agreed upon)
APE: Called me two days later. "Uhh, we need you to come in. There's a problem with your bushings"
Me:  I come in, leaving early from work, and look at the bushings.
APE: (Dustin) "They're not just slipping on like they're supposed to."
Me: What do you mean? I didn't coat the bushings.
APE: (Pat) "Well, all these pieces are supposed to just slip together."
Me: (After further scotch brighting the shafts and failing to slip on the bushing) "Do you guys have some emery paper?"
APE: (Dustin) "Sure." Walks off. Returns with a REALLY used old piece with hardly and tooth left.
Me: I work on sanding the shaft to maybe clearance it enough to put the pushing on. (5 min later) "Do you have a fresher piece of emery paper?
APE: "Sure" (Guys gave me a fresh 5" long piece grudgingly.)
Me: After another 5 min "Uhm, I don't like how much I'm going to have to remove to make this work. Are you guys sure that this is the way this is supposed to go together?"
APE: "Absolutely, we do this all the time"
Me: "Okay, well let me call someone and find out what the deal is and I'll get back to you guys" (I call Randy, who proceeds to
tell me that the bushings are pressed on, and that the reason he doesn't assemble transmissions himself anymore is that they
are so difficult to get put together right.) So next I call APE and tell them that the bushings are pressed on. "Why didn't you guys know the bushings were pressed on?"
APE: "uhhh, well we sent the transmission out to get undercut. We didn't actually take it apart. Every other transmission we do has floating bushings."
Me: "Well then send it back to the shop that did the work so that they can put it back together. I'm sure they know what they're doing"
APE: "Well, we can do that but, it'll cost you another $50 in shipping."
Me: "What do you mean? Before I dropped my transmission off, I talked to you guys to make sure I could get the gears back
unassembled for coating and that you could reassemble it for me. I didn't know you were going to send it somewhere else to do the work"
APE: "Well we could put it back together for you"
Me: "Are you guys going to get it right? I just got told that there are important tolerances to maintain on the shafts during
reassembly. If they're not right it's not going to shift right." (WHAT THEY SAID NEXT SHOCKED ME)
APE: (Pat) "You should really have us send it back to the shop. We're just a bunch of Duffers in here"
Me: Not that I should have been surprised with the general level of competence I had experienced but still. "Can you tell me where to send it to make sure that it's done right?"
APE: "No, we can't tell you that." (Long story short, the machine shop they use for their gear undercutting is like a military secret.)
Me: "Okay, so you won't send it to the people that will do it right without charging me extra? After you already said you'd reassemble it?"
APE: "yes"

So I took the whole mess back from them and walked out. Called my credit card and told them I was contesting $75 of the
charge so I could go to a competent shop to get the gears reassembled.
Wait a week.
APE: "Hey, why are you contesting the charge for the work we did on the gears?..."

Back and forth rehashing the prior conversation and referencing the previously botch work. Underscoring the complete lack of
faith in their ability to perform the work right. Laughing out load when they called themselves "A precision machine shop" (The
machines may be precise, but they most certainly are not) And going step by step until they said "Well call your credit card
company to not contest the charge and I'll give you $100" I said sure. Then ten minutes later they call back. "Ohhhh, I thought
you were contesting the whole $400. You're only asking for $75.  Never mind what I said earlier. Have a good day" and he hung up...

What a bunch of douchbags... (It's funny that the only work that's been done right with those guys is the work that was sent out...)

[Pat Conlon]

When I had my gears undercut APE mentioned that they send their work out to Paul Gast (Fast by Gast) so I just went to Paul directly.

Sorry to hear of your problems with APE. Think ahead on how bitchen your bike will be when finished. You are doing a 1st class job.

Don't get discouraged, it's gonna be worth it. 

Cheers

[skymasteres]

When I had my gears undercut APE mentioned that they send their work out to Paul Gast (Fast by Gast) so I just went to Paul directly.

Sorry to hear of your problems with APE. Think ahead on how bitchen your bike will be when finished. You are doing a 1st class job.

Don't get discouraged, it's gonna be worth it. 

Cheers

Thanks. Interestingly enough they flat out denied sending it to Fast by Gast. Said they didn't use spears racing either...

[fj1289]

When I had my gears undercut APE mentioned that they send their work out to Paul Gast (Fast by Gast) so I just went to Paul directly.

Sorry to hear of your problems with APE. Think ahead on how bitchen your bike will be when finished. You are doing a 1st class job.

Don't get discouraged, it's gonna be worth it. 

Cheers

X2 on Fast by Gast - very happy with all the work they've done for me: street/strip ported big valve head, 2 transmissions, and the entire top end on the dragbike.

X2 on cant wait to see the final results of this build!

[racerrad8]

Thanks. Interestingly enough they flat out denied sending it to Fast by Gast. Said they didn't use spe

ars racing either...

And when I spoke with Paul when this conversation started in January he told me, "APE sends their stuff out, I don't know who they use, but it is not me."

For anyone else looking at the transmission under cutting for the resolution of the second gear issue, I have the gear shaft in stock, with all gears on the shaft undercut on both accel and decel.

Undercut Transmission Input Shaft

No waiting, professionally disassembled, inspected,welded if required, undercut and properly reassembled.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but your experiences regarding APE services are in line with others on the forum.

Randy - RPM

[skymasteres]

And the saga continues. I figured it was time to finally bolt down that oil baffle plate
and no sooner do I get the bolt almost in when...



Just one of those moments where you're just like "CRAAAAAAP!...... oh danm."
Time to bust out the bolt extractors...

[Steve_in_Florida]

Looks like you got a little "head" there!

[skymasteres]

I have the transmission now re-assembled! I am so very fortunate to have access to a certified Yamaha mechanic
who actually knows what he is doing with respect to things like this. (Working at Off Vintage Motorcyle)
Brought the shafts with the gears over to the shop where he works and he had everything put back together in
an hour. Even made sure everything was lined up right. (That would sound like it's obvious, but recent experience
has made me wary of "good enough")

I suppose the one bright side to all this transmission thrash is that I ended up with an assembled transmission with
all of the input AND the output shaft gears undercut for under $400. (It's reassuring when the mechanic doing the
reassembly is looking at the gears and asking if they have any miles on them because the dogs look so good)
Here are the shift forks in place. (I'll tell you, one of the most challenging aspects of this project is trying to
remember where I have all of these pieces stashed away)



Here I am trial fitting the input shaft. (Note here, it's easier to put the output shaft in first THEN fit the input shaft.)
The thing that makes with tricky is all of the little details. Like that friggin little half clip that rides in the edge of the
bearing on the output shaft. ("Lost" it a few times and spend way too long crawling around looking for it...)



Here are both shafts in place. I spent some time flicking it back and forth between gears, and while the movement
is smooth, the gears don't "flick" back and forth the way I feel they should. I'm guessing I need to burnish this coating
that I have on everything more. We that and the fact that all of the parts have been "dry" fitted for now without
assembly lube. (I've avoided using assembly lube for now because it attracts just and I don't want additional grit in there.)
I'll put it on when I'm ready to button this thing up for real.




So, I have parts in the mail that will allow me to actually get this thing bolted together. So what am I missing? What kind
of sealant do I need to get the case halves mated? Any tips on performing the assembly? The sequence in the shop manual
is pretty straight forward, but it's reassuring to get input from people who have done it before.

[56 CHEVY]

I used Yamabond when I bolted my cases together. Nice work!

[JMR]

 How many people here put the top case half on top of the bottom half (completely ass backwards from 98% of all horizontally split bike engines). I don't. All Yamaha had to do is put the transmission bearing locating pin hole on the other side and....BINGO. OK...ok...a Honda SOHC CB550 engine is supposed to be assembled flipping the top case onto the bottom case. Ways around that too! 

[racerman_27410]

I tilt the rear of the engine block up about 45 degrees (with the cylinder head up leaning forward)
shift forks hanging down.
load the transmission into the lower case half then lift it to the upper case while engaging the shift forks.


took some cussin to figure that one out which led me to think one could actually do the second gear fix without removing the engine from the frame. (if one didnt mind working upside down)


Kookaloo!


Frank