Turn signal electrical question

[Paul1965]

Is there anything special about how the turn signal wiring works on the 84 FJ? I'm trying to install some additional LED marker light/turn signal assemblies and cannot get them to function properly. They have a red (running), green (turn signal) and black (ground) wires. If I connect the running to a key on source and connect the ground, they light up fine. However, as soon as I connect the turn signal, I lose the running light and they will only flash. If I make my connections to a regular 12V source like my trickle charger, the LED lights work as they should. When I check the wiring on the bike, things seem just fine. Thanks in advance for any help!

[Antonn3]

Hi Paul, the  84/85 does not use 3 wires to operate the turn signals, you only use the green and black as  those  supply the 12 volts.
The tail lights use 1157 bulbs which are the running lights ( 2 filament bulbs).
The turn signals use 1156 which are single filament bulbs.

So only use the green and black wires and your good to go.

Good luck,
Tony

[Paul1965]

Hi Paul, the  84/85 does not use 3 wires to operate the turn signals, you only use the green and black as  those  supply the 12 volts.
The tail lights use 1157 bulbs which are the running lights ( 2 filament bulbs).
The turn signals use 1156 which are single filament bulbs.

So only use the green and black wires and your good to go.

Good luck,
Tony

Thanks, I understand that the OE turn signals are only a 2 wire connection. That's why I used a key on power source (from the ignition switch) to power the running light side of the LED's. It's once I connect the turn signal portion to the OE lights that they fail to operate properly.

[Dads_FJ]

"They have a red (running), green (turn signal) and black (ground) wires."  Are you absolutely sure black is ground?  When I installed an LED tail light on my FJ there was a black, red, and white wire (and no instructions)... the white wire was common (ground).  Also LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs... turn signal circuits can be dependent on the low resistance of an incandescent bulb to work properly.  Have you tried contacting the manufacturer of the lights?

[Paul1965]

"They have a red (running), green (turn signal) and black (ground) wires."  Are you absolutely sure black is ground?  When I installed an LED tail light on my FJ there was a black, red, and white wire (and no instructions)... the white wire was common (ground).  Also LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs... turn signal circuits can be dependent on the low resistance of an incandescent bulb to work properly.  Have you tried contacting the manufacturer of the lights?

Yes, I am sure black is ground. In my original post I pointed out "If I make my connections to a regular 12V source like my trickle charger, the LED lights work as they should"

[Arnie]

Do the lights work properly as JUST turn signals?
You may be able to put a diode inline to keep the circuits separate and have them both work, but I'd want to look at a schematic of the lights you're using before making any real comment or suggestion.

Arnie

[Paul1965]

Do the lights work properly as JUST turn signals?
You may be able to put a diode inline to keep the circuits separate and have them both work, but I'd want to look at a schematic of the lights you're using before making any real comment or suggestion.

Arnie

Yup, they work just fine as either a turn signal or as a running light, just not both when I connect them to the bikes turn signals. If I connect the running light and then use the same 12V source for the turn signal, they operate as they should (go from dim to bright), so I'm fairly sure it's not an issue with the lights. These are the lights, and of course they came with no instructions: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006FSS2KG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Pat Conlon]

......Also LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs... turn signal circuits can be dependent on the low resistance of an incandescent bulb to work properly. 

John, actually it is the opposite...
That's why LED indicators need a in line resistor for the reed switch to flash properly.
LEDs are very energy efficient and have a low resistance compared to incandescent bulbs.

Cheers.

[Dads_FJ]

......Also LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs... turn signal circuits can be dependent on the low resistance of an incandescent bulb to work properly. 

John, actually it is the opposite...
That's why LED indicators need a in line resistor for the reed switch to flash properly.
LEDs are very energy efficient and have a low resistance compared to incandescent bulbs.

Cheers.

It's all good.   but I still think I'm right that "LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs".  Matter of fact I'll bet you five bucks...  But we need someone else to prove the point. 

[oldktmdude]

......Also LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs... turn signal circuits can be dependent on the low resistance of an incandescent bulb to work properly. 

John, actually it is the opposite...
That's why LED indicators need a in line resistor for the reed switch to flash properly.
LEDs are very energy efficient and have a low resistance compared to incandescent bulbs.

Cheers.

It's all good.   but I still think I'm right that "LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs".  Matter of fact I'll bet you five bucks...  But we need someone else to prove the point. 

I'm with Pat on this one!

[Paul1965]

......Also LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs... turn signal circuits can be dependent on the low resistance of an incandescent bulb to work properly.

John, actually it is the opposite...
That's why LED indicators need a in line resistor for the reed switch to flash properly.
LEDs are very energy efficient and have a low resistance compared to incandescent bulbs.

Cheers.

It's all good.  but I still think I'm right that "LED lights have a much higher resistance than incandescent bulbs".  Matter of fact I'll bet you five bucks...  But we need someone else to prove the point.  

I'm with Pat on this one!

Like Dads FJ said, LED's have next to nothing for resistance. That's why a load resistor is needed to prevent the flasher from going crazy and acting like there's a bulb out (flashing fast).

[oldktmdude]

   LED's require alot less power to operate because there is less resistance than a normal bulb.

[Dads_FJ]

You're not arguing with me, you are arguing with ohm's law... if V/R=I (volts divided by resistance = current), then lets plug in some numbers...

12 volts divided by 1 ohm (very low for our example) = 12 amps of current.

vs.

12 volts divided by 12 ohms = 1 amp of current.

Now: Power = Volts * Amps

our first example of a very LOW resistance will be 144 watts of power (12*12)

vs.

our second example of HIGHER resistance which is only 12 watts of power (12*1).

[FJmonkey]

By adding a resistor to an LED turn signal for my rear indicators, it keeps them flashing properly. With out the resistance the flasher unit thinks the bulb is blown and flashes faster to alert me of the problem. I am guessing by this simple example that LEDs have a low enough resistance to register as an open circuit (blown bulb) by the FJ flasher system.

[rktmanfj]

By adding a resistor to an LED turn signal for my rear indicators, it keeps them flashing properly. With out the resistance the flasher unit thinks the bulb is blown and flashes faster to alert me of the problem. I am guessing by this simple example that LEDs have a low enough resistance to register as an open circuit (blown bulb) by the FJ flasher system.

No, not an open circuit, a short.

The resistor limits current, slowing the response of the metal strip in the flasher.. it's the high current in the flasher that builds up heat in the mechanism that causes it to flash rapidly.

At least that's the way I understand it.