Front end education.

[Alf]

My friend bike fits a 120 tyre.

I know that compare 2 different bikes are comparing appels with oranges, but in a way or another all the 16" fitted bikes were accused of similar behaviour. Curiously the last tests at Practical Sportsbikes mag with 16" fitted bikes repeat the same history: no bike replicate that behaviour when they test them... would it be due to modern tyres?. I´m sure of that

I´m sure the difference is on tyres: with radial tyres fitted all the FJs that I´ve ridden feel perfect. In fact, tomorrow I´m going to have a ride with my friend Mingo and I can not wait to ride his bike again. What were your tyres?

[SlowOldGuy]

Before I changed the wheel, I was running Metzeler MEZ-2 radials front and rear.  In my opinion, the radial tire did not make a noticeable difference.

That was my first and only radial on that 16 inch wheel so I don't know if different tire brands would have made any difference.  I do know that I've run a number of different tire brands on the 17 inch front wheels and it feels pretty much the same regardless of the brand.

I guess it's just a mystery.  :-)

DavidR.

[fintip]

You know, this is really, truly amazing. I will probably be referring to this conversation as an example of the astonishing power of the human subjective experience.

Anyways, obviously it varies person-to-person as a matter of taste, and isn't 100% objective. I'll just have to figure out what works for me.

[Alf]

Before I changed the wheel, I was running Metzeler MEZ-2 radials front and rear.  In my opinion, the radial tire did not make a noticeable difference.

That was my first and only radial on that 16 inch wheel so I don't know if different tire brands would have made any difference.  I do know that I've run a number of different tire brands on the 17 inch front wheels and it feels pretty much the same regardless of the brand.

I guess it's just a mystery.  :-)

DavidR.

I had the same problem as you in my FZR 1000 with that Metzelers fitted. In fact, so bad was my experience that never I´ve fitted a Metzeler again in any of my bikes. It is a very directional tyre and it is possible that fitted in a 16" is more exacerbated that feeling of stand up when braking

I think part of the mystery is solved... until you try again any FJ 85-87 with 16" front

[SlowOldGuy]

I had the same problem as you in my FZR 1000 with that Metzelers fitted. In fact, so bad was my experience that never I´ve fitted a Metzeler again in any of my bikes. It is a very directional tyre and it is possible that fitted in a 16" is more exacerbated that feeling of stand up when braking

I think part of the mystery is solved... until you try again any FJ 85-87 with 16" front

As I said, the performance of the radial tire was no better than the bias tires I was running before.  The other '85 I had at the time I finished the conversion was also a truck.  Yeah, the front MEZ-2 was crap.  Besides the handling issues, it had a coast-down wobble between 50 to 40 mph.  The Dunlop D205 was a much better tire (of course it was a 17 inch wheel by that time).  However, the 16 inch  MEZ-2 for the rear was a very good tire.  In fact, I've currently got one on my '92 and even though it is 10 years old (yikes!!) it continues to perform much better than it has a right to.

No intention of going back to a 16 inch front wheel.  I'm perfectly happy with my current setup. 

DavidR.

[ribbert]

As I said, the performance of the radial tire was no better than the bias tires I was running before.  The other '85 I had at the time I finished the conversion was also a truck.  Yeah, the front MEZ-2 was crap.  Besides the handling issues, it had a coast-down wobble between 50 to 40 mph.  The Dunlop D205 was a much better tire (of course it was a 17 inch wheel by that time).  However, the 16 inch  MEZ-2 for the rear was a very good tire.  In fact, I've currently got one on my '92 and even though it is 10 years old (yikes!!) it continues to perform much better than it has a right to.

No intention of going back to a 16 inch front wheel.  I'm perfectly happy with my current setup.  

[/quote]DavidR.
[/quote]

Along with all the other stuff the Govt. is trying to force on us here, front number plates, high vis clothing etc. they now propose to make tyres unroadworthy after 5 years regardless of condition.

[Jeraldo]

The early bikes, pre-'89, had anti-dive on them. It's pretty much useless and adds complexity unnecessarilly. They can be be removed and drilled block-off plates installed (needs the drilled channels for fork oil to flow). They also have different spacing for the caliper mounts, so the monobloc calipers won't bolt-on, you'd need adapter plates.
They are 41mm, so the RPM inserts should fit and function correctly.

Thanks to the FJ Forum in general, and this post in particular.  I'm skilled in computer use but have zero ability fixing bikes; my motorcycle mechanic is just the opposite -- a genius with the bikes but he doesn't like computers too much.  So he offered to remove the anti-dive from my '85 FJ1100 which somehow jogged my memory for the discussions here about it.  I gleaned enough from this one line to tell him to hold off on "just removing the bolt" -- when I called him to say that, he too was extremely grateful (and his garage remains free of fork oil ). 

I'm still not sure what the next steps are for A/D removal but at least avoided catastrophe for now.

Thanks again,

Jerry

[Dan Filetti]

I'm still not sure what the next steps are for A/D removal but at least avoided catastrophe for now.

Jerry-

You have a few options.  If you want to completely remove them you'll need a replacement block-off plate like this:



found on eBay.

Alternatively, another CHEAP way to defeat the A/D units is to drill a few holes in the damper rod above the tapered spindle shoulder.  With these holes drilled, you can leave the A/D units untouched.

Lastly, and perhaps the best of all worlds, (if not the cheapest) Install some RPM Fork Valves.  

You can leave the AD installed and remove the top portion for the brake system and have a markedly improved suspension to boot.

Or you could attempt to make you're own fork valves or block-off plate, I guess...


Dan

[Jeraldo]

En Spain we say "más sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo". A free translation would be: Satan knows more due to the experience that the time give than for being Satan

Due to my web I know 15 FJ owners in person, and I´ve contacted and given my advice to tens more. Each time that the people has changed from bias-ply to radial tyres the bike has improved a lot. I know that the Doc recommends bias-ply with the OE rims, but he is WRONG. Sorry if I don´t look humble and I´m sure Doc knows infinitum more about bikes and riding than me, but in this issue I´m categorical and dogmatic: NO, NO, AND NOT. I´ve tested so many tyres and the owners have passed me so much experience, that there is no theme. I have not found any single owner that have told me than bias-ply are better than radials in his FJ

Only if your FJ fit 3" OE rim the correct tyre is 110/70/17. When appear the OE Dunlop was very narrow, a real 110, not a 120, and it was designed specifically for the FJ

This is from the Spanish mag Motociclismo, around 1986. Like I´m everyday practising my English here I leave it the article to you to practice your Spanish  

The test is a comparative between the FJ 11 and 12 models. The head letters say: Michelin Radials: the third FJ. And speaks about the difference is so abysmal with radial tyres than in fact it is like to ride a 3rd bike with stronger chassis, harder suspension... and less brakes!!!!!!


[/quote]

Espain eez deeferent!  Gracias por el articulo caballero -- muy interesante.  Compre' un '85 FJ 1100 el año pasado, con los Dunlop bias-ply.  Acabo de pedir unos Metzler radials -- vamos a ver como son.

Un saludo

[Jeraldo]

I'm still not sure what the next steps are for A/D removal but at least avoided catastrophe for now.

Jerry-

You have a few options.  If you want to completely remove them you'll need a replacement block-off plate like this:



found on eBay.

Alternatively, another CHEAP way to defeat the A/D units is to drill a few holes in the damper rod above the tapered spindle shoulder.  With these holes drilled, you can leave the A/D units untouched.

Lastly, and perhaps the best of all worlds, (if not the cheapest) Install some RPM Fork Valves.  

You can leave the AD installed and remove the top portion for the brake system and have a markedly improved suspension to boot.

Or you could attempt to make you're own fork valves or block-off plate, I guess...


Dan

Thanks Dan,

I've spent the morning reading through the various commentaries about removing the A/D.  There's an old saw that goes:  put two lawyers in a room and you'll get at least 3 opinions but that's nothing compared with the fervor experienced here on this one.  For all the commentaries, I don't have the savvy to make the judgment whether its worth the effort.  I'm changing out the worn-out Dunlops that came with the bike for some Metzler bias-plys; the mechanic thinks that it may be enough, along with fixing the nightmare up front (won't go into the details there to protect the guilty prior mechanic(s)), even though he is the one that originally suggested I'd be happier removing the A/D.

At this point, I'm going to ride the bike a little bit and see how it is -- my prior bikes were a '73 CB 500, then a '96 Seca II so at first I thought it was simply inexperience with a bigger bike; it didn't just want to stand up in a corner, it would BOUNCE around the corners.  (I ride in upstate NY and there are some big sweepers that I took effortlessly at 85 mph on the Seca II that were downright frightening at 55 mph on the FJ 1100).

[Alf]

Hola Jeraldo!
Bienvenido al forum
Mejor unos Avon o muuuucho mejor, los nuevos ContiAttack q han sacado para medidas de FJ

[jscgdunn]

We put the plates in pics on out 86.  They look ok but you are stillimited to the old brakes.  Would not do again; just get 89 forks and calipers or BD calipers.

My opinion....

[Jeraldo]

Hola Jeraldo!
Bienvenido al forum
Mejor unos Avon o muuuucho mejor, los nuevos ContiAttack q han sacado para medidas de FJ

Gracias.  Los Metzlers fueron los unicos que pude encontrar facilmente, rapido, y a precio razonable. 

me parece que con estes arreglos, me gustaria mas el moto; asi, en el proximo año, tendre que hacer el modificacion a rueda 17".


thanks.  The Metzlers were the only tires I could quickly and easily find, at a reasonable cost, that fit the stock wheel.

It seems to me that with the proposed changes/additions, I will be much happier with the bike.  If so, next year, I'll have to make the switch to the 17" front wheel.

[fintip]

Jeraldo,

In the discussion above, some said the Metzlers were terrible on the FJ, and that some bias-ply Dunlops were better than those radials. The Avon AV45/46 are so much better that it is worth it to wait--or at least, don't judge radials by the metzlers.

Bienvenido al forum!

[Alf]

Continental have just released a new radial tyre specifically designed to 80-90 motorbikes, a new Conti-attack.