Front end education.

[FJmonkey]

PLEASE, can the mods have "insert image" and then we have the option of browsing our computer to select pic.  Obviously, no boobs, bums, willies and next doors dog taking a crap on me lawn....

The plates can look like just a simple flat plate and still have the proper porting, like below. As far as loading pictures, you can load them into the gallery on this site and post them.

Like this

[fintip]

Can the pre-88 forks accommodate the post-88 3" rim as a straight bolt on?

I've never heard of adapter plates, but they look pretty cheap and straightforward; is there any disadvantage to using adapter plates? Are they a hassle for any reason?

In other words: Does one really need an 88 or later front-end, or could one just upgrade the pre-88 forks with the RPM catridge emulator, get a post-88 rim, and get some new calipers with adapter plates? Wouldn't that be easier? Any reason this isn't a good idea?

Why go through all that and end up having what would look like, a half assed, cobble job?
Switching out the fork legs are NOT a difficult operation.

The forks are one of the main reasons we have been suggesting an 89 or newer year model...as you're starting out with a better outfitted platform ready for modding, but anything is possible.

If it were mine, I wouldn't be happy with the overall look of the forks, with a capped off, no longer functional A/D and adapter plates for the calipers.

But, after all, it's not mine, do what you want.

Leon

Wow, what? I mean, I should preface this by saying that I'm not really concerned with looks, other than liking the body of the bike. I mean, having a good looking bike is nice and all, but I run a *very* tight budget, and so it's not really high up on the priority list. (Except for a stock paint job, which is why I won't even consider FJ's that have been repainted or are naked, and having the bellypan, which I would be willing to shell out and buy, as it makes such a huge improvement on the appearance on the bike. But again, those are body issues.)

Second, what would look so bad? I am not at all of the opinion that those plates look bad (just some other metal accentuation, no? What's so bad about that?), and I have no idea what a caliper mounted by an adapter plate would look like--given, again, though, that it's just a little piece of metal (right?), I can't imagine it's even that noticeable except to people who really know such things--and even then, what's so bad about that? Personally, I think maintaining that look even with adapter plate and block offs would probably be a lot nicer looking than some of the other front-end (GSXR, etc.) transplants I've seen.

And I know fork transplants are easy and straightforward. I'm talking about expense and functionality, not ease; I imagine the little bit of home-cutting to block off the AD is more difficult than a fork swap, even though that shouldn't be THAT hard.

So from the expense and functionality standpoint:

Would 87/earlier forks with AD properly bypassed, RPM cartridge emulators + springs, and an 88/later 3" rim (still wondering if this is bolt on or not...), and either an FZR400rr caliper or blue dots (etc., some modern caliper) with an adaptor plate

be a cheaper option that would be just as effective as

an 88/later front end swap+RPM fork upgrades? I can't imagine finding a spare 88/later front end is easy, and shipping will be expensive, and then it STILL needs $350 in fork upgrades in the form of springs and cartridge emulator... (which would still only have the stock caliper, which is fine, but not a blue dot...)

[Ah-ha: I just realized I did say easier. But I wasn't being clear; I meant easier in that sourcing a front end and shipping it sounds harder than just working with the stockers that come with the bike--not "easier" as in the work itself, in which case just popping a new front end into place that's already in one piece would obviously be the 'easiest' option.]

[WhiteBeard]

and I have no idea what a caliper mounted by an adapter plate would look like--given, again, though, that it's just a little piece of metal (right?), I can't imagine it's even that noticeable except to people who really know such things

There's an adapter plate that will make the Blue Dots fit using the FJ1100 brake mounts.
Can't remember who made it, think it was made for another Yamaha, maybe somebody can fill in.



Nat

[1tinindian]

Can the pre-88 forks accommodate the post-88 3" rim as a straight bolt on?

I've never heard of adapter plates, but they look pretty cheap and straightforward; is there any disadvantage to using adapter plates? Are they a hassle for any reason?

In other words: Does one really need an 88 or later front-end, or could one just upgrade the pre-88 forks with the RPM catridge emulator, get a post-88 rim, and get some new calipers with adapter plates? Wouldn't that be easier? Any reason this isn't a good idea?

Why go through all that and end up having what would look like, a half assed, cobble job?
Switching out the fork legs are NOT a difficult operation.

The forks are one of the main reasons we have been suggesting an 89 or newer year model...as you're starting out with a better outfitted platform ready for modding, but anything is possible.

If it were mine, I wouldn't be happy with the overall look of the forks, with a capped off, no longer functional A/D and adapter plates for the calipers.

But, after all, it's not mine, do what you want.

Leon

Wow, what? I mean, I should preface this by saying that I'm not really concerned with looks, other than liking the body of the bike. I mean, having a good looking bike is nice and all, but I run a *very* tight budget, and so it's not really high up on the priority list. (Except for a stock paint job, which is why I won't even consider FJ's that have been repainted or are naked, and having the bellypan, which I would be willing to shell out and buy, as it makes such a huge improvement on the appearance on the bike. But again, those are body issues.)

Second, what would look so bad? I am not at all of the opinion that those plates look bad (just some other metal accentuation, no? What's so bad about that?), and I have no idea what a caliper mounted by an adapter plate would look like--given, again, though, that it's just a little piece of metal (right?), I can't imagine it's even that noticeable except to people who really know such things--and even then, what's so bad about that? Personally, I think maintaining that look even with adapter plate and block offs would probably be a lot nicer looking than some of the other front-end (GSXR, etc.) transplants I've seen.

And I know fork transplants are easy and straightforward. I'm talking about expense and functionality, not ease; I imagine the little bit of home-cutting to block off the AD is more difficult than a fork swap, even though that shouldn't be THAT hard.

So from the expense and functionality standpoint:

Would 87/earlier forks with AD properly bypassed, RPM cartridge emulators + springs, and an 88/later 3" rim (still wondering if this is bolt on or not...), and either an FZR400rr caliper or blue dots (etc., some modern caliper) with an adaptor plate

be a cheaper option that would be just as effective as

an 88/later front end swap+RPM fork upgrades? I can't imagine finding a spare 88/later front end is easy, and shipping will be expensive, and then it STILL needs $350 in fork upgrades in the form of springs and cartridge emulator... (which would still only have the stock caliper, which is fine, but not a blue dot...)

[Ah-ha: I just realized I did say easier. But I wasn't being clear; I meant easier in that sourcing a front end and shipping it sounds harder than just working with the stockers that come with the bike--not "easier" as in the work itself, in which case just popping a new front end into place that's already in one piece would obviously be the 'easiest' option.]

I'll say this one last time... if you are so hell-bent on modding an FJ, start with an 89 or newer year model, as it will already have some of the work done for you.
If you can't live with that, get an older one and ride the sucker, after all you gotta start somewhere.
It just sounds to me, like you want what is already standard on the 89+, but are stuck on the red and white paint scheme.
So until you actually own an FJ, regardless of year, all this talk is pointless.

Like they say, if you're going to swim, you gotta jump in with both feet!

Leon

[fintip]

I'll say this one last time... if you are so hell-bent on modding an FJ, start with an 89 or newer year model, as it will already have some of the work done for you.
If you can't live with that, get an older one and ride the sucker, after all you gotta start somewhere.
It just sounds to me, like you want what is already standard on the 89+, but are stuck on the red and white paint scheme.
So until you actually own an FJ, regardless of year, all this talk is pointless.

Like they say, if you're going to swim, you gotta jump in with both feet!

Leon

I don't mean to be contrarian, but I hear you saying that, and I don't hear the reason. What exactly does the 89 offer that makes it such a better platform for modding? Please, I'm honestly asking. From what I hear, the forks are pretty much the same. It has a wider rim and fits blue dots off the shelf. Then there's a fuel pump (which I assume is as about as straightforward a mod as you can do, no?). That's all, right?

So, I get fuel pump, a rim and an adapter plate. And they're even? Yes? What makes the '89 such a better platform? Anything I'm missing? The vibration that caused fairing damage, the engine not pulling as hard past 8k, the extra weight, the less sporty styling, the less favorable color scheme... I think those cons outweigh the pros for me for a later model.

And it's not just the red/white, I'd be fine with the White/Silver/Red accents '89 if that were the best bike. I want a bike that performs kick-ass and can be ridden 600 miles in a day if need be--and while that's an interesting balance, I lean towards performance over comfort. On top of that, the earlier models did look the best.

In any case, "Having some of the work done for me" isn't a huge priority. I enjoy doing the work myself anyways...

Now, am I missing something?

[FJmonkey]

Not to put words in Leon's mouth but I think what he ment by get the 89' equates to shit or get off the pot.

[Arnie]

I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth.
This is my own statement to Fintip.  Others may or may not agree as is their right.

I am VERY tired of reading these long voluminous 'what if' posts by Fintip.
You've been given a great deal of honest advise from many on this list as well, it seems, from Doc on the UKFJOC list.
Feel free to continue your "fact finding" about the FJ or any other topic you like, but stop repeating and repeating ad-nausium your what ifs.  Buy a bike, mod it as you like, and shut up!!

Arnie

[1tinindian]

Simply put, I picked the 89 because it was the first year for the better forks, YES I said better, because it eliminates the anti-dive and has the correct spacing for the blue dot (R1) calipers, and already has a 17" front wheel, and with RPM fork valves installed, Bobs your uncle.
That is a lot of the work already done over getting an 87- older model that would need to have these things changed to be up to date.

Obviously you are not getting it at all.
Maybe an FJ isn't what you really are looking for.
We all have bought and rode and modded every year model available and we all seem to like the FJ for what it is, no matter how stock or modified it is.

So yes, Mark and Arnie hit it right on the head, by a damn bike and enjoy.
This continuous back and forth is growing tiresome.

Leon

[fintip]

Well then. Some people enjoy talking theory, others don't. I'll stop bothering you all.

If anyone knows what adapter plate we're talking about, or what I need to know to find it, I'd be grateful.

If anyone can confirm that a later model 3" rim bolts onto the pre-'88 forks, or knows what it takes, I'd be grateful.

As for a straight and direct answer, I don't want an '89, so I won't get one. I'll be getting an FJ11, at this point. If I can't find one soon enough and the right 1TX or 3CV shows up, I might compromise and get that instead, and keep hunting.

Lastly, It's not like I'm delaying getting one; I've emailed about 5 different people around the US for one's I'm interested in.

Thanks for the help.

[Pat Conlon]

Ok, my turn.....

Yes, the '89 and later 17" rim and spacers bolts on to the early '84-'87 FJ forks, they share the same size 15mm axle...

However....

The brake rotors you have on the early '84-'87 rims will not fit on the '89 and later 17" rim.
It's a different bolt pattern on the early vs. later FJ rotors.

So now in addition to your 17" rim you need the brake rotors to fit the rim.... which are the brake rotors for the '89 and later FJ. Stands to reason, right?

So now you have a '89 and later 17" rim and rotors to fit that rim, you can install the 17" rim and rotors on your early '84-'87 fork lowers.......But guess what?

Now your brake calipers will not bolt on the forks because the rotors are too big ....so now you need a adaptor plate to offset the calipers (good luck finding that) or you need a set of late model '89 or later fork lowers which have the correct mounting points for the calipers....which fit your brake rotors ....which fit the 17" rim.....got it?

[fj11.5]

  well said pat, that's just how I did my 84 way back when, , guess he missed my comment about the fzr calipers. that bolt straight up to the 84 lowers , fancy twin spots too

[Pat Conlon]

So let me get this straight...

The FZR calipers fit the hard points on early '84-'87 fork lowers .....and....fit over the '89 and later 298mm rotors? I don't see how.

I remember checking years ago and I found that The FZR600 RR calipers are not available stateside..
The RR was a rare model even in Europe.

[fj11.5]

that's the tricky part, you get to keep the 84 front standard, wheel fork lowers disc ect , , not sure what year , but its fzr 400rr , has to be the rr model as its the only one with 83mm c/c of the mounting. bolts, , later fzr 400 had 90mm c/c bolt holes 

[Pat Conlon]

Ok so the FZR400RR calipers will not fit over the 298mm late model FJ rotors....

.......Which fit the late model 17" rim......ad nasueam....

[fintip]

Interesting dilemma. I don't know if it's a stupid question, but is there a chance the rotors from the 84 could be modified to fit the new rim? New holes drilled to fit the new bolt pattern?

You seem to indicate that the adapter plate is hard to find; is it some specialty part that is no longer made and is kind of obscure, like aftermarket fairings or something? I had assumed it was just something in stock somewhere, I just didn't know how to look for it.

Any chance someone has one that can chime in?

I did see the comment about the FZR calipers, interesting, but if it wasn't much more trouble to just get blue dots, I figured that'd be superior. However, if fitting the blue dots is extensively complicated, I might just start looking for those fzr calipers instead. Any chance anyone has a source article talking about that, or remembers some kind of context that would help me search for it?

[edit: saw that last post. So the fzr400rr calipers bolt onto the original 16" rim and accompanying rotor, and so aren't what I'm looking for. Gotcha.]

Thanks again.