Front end education.

[RichBaker]

100kph = 62MpH.....  110 is still under 70kph.

[fintip]

It must have been a mistake, but you said 60, not 70. Fair misunderstanding on that line.

[fintip]

I know this isn't a popular topic with some because it's not just the common, straightforward front-end swap. If this topic makes you feel like this:  

Then please, make us both happier, and skip this post. I don't want to bother you. I have no intentions of irritating you.  

That being said, I'll continue for anyone else who doesn't mind my looking for a cheaper alternative.

So I have been doing some research. Pat supplied me with the correct vendor for the brake caliper adaptor plates. He emailed me back and said he does indeed make such an adapter plate.

What I do not know (and I have emailed to ask him, but I doubt he will know) is whether this adapter plate will allow an R1 caliper to fit onto the rotor of an '87 rim or onto the rotor of an '89 rim.

Does anyone know

A) Which rim?
or
B) How I can figure this out myself (i.e., what the relevant measurements I need to search for are?)?
or
C) What I should search for to figure this out?

For the record, if anyone searches for this thread in the future, the pair of adapter plates go for $140 at the moment.

[fj11.5]

R1 calipers bolt up the same as 89 fj and have the same sweep / reach over the disc,  cant vouch for 87 , but im guessing they may be the same as 84  discs  ,, so what company make the adaptors

[fintip]

87 is the same as the 84. The company that makes them is the one Pat gave. I did not find the product listed anywhere on their webpage, but I sent an email and got a response saying that they do indeed make a bracket to fit R1 bluespots onto the Vmax, and he believed it would work.

The link is on Page 2 of this thread, I believe, company is called "one off cycle" or something. They do mostly Vmax custom work.

[fj11.5]

No worries, thanks mate,,
rod 

[fintip]

Just updating this in case someone else searches it in the future--the bracket is for fitting an R1 bluespot onto the rotors that go with a 16" rim.

Now I'm just wondering (I know nothing about rotors) if it's possible to find some rotor out there that will maintain the profile of the 16" rim's rotor and will fit onto the 17" rim.

I have no idea how difficult that is, though, and it may end up being a dead end. The other option is to find some other adapter plate out there that will fit the mount point on the 87/earlier forks and hold a caliper so that it will fit the rotor of a 17" rim.

(If anyone has a lead on either of those possibilities, I'd be glad to hear, but I have a feeling I'm breaking new ground here... We'll see.)

[racerman_27410]

I think one very important thing is being overlooked here.....IMO the only really bad handling characteristic of the early models with the 16" wheel is wanting to stand up when the brakes are applied while cornering..... upgrading to a 17" wheel eliminates this trait completely as well as reducing unsprung weight off the front end which actually improves the handling well above the previously mentioned issue.

brakes are brakes until you get to the threshold of lockup where the blue spots paired with a 14mm master give you much finer control..... I can bring smoke from my front tire without actually locking the front wheel... that kind of brake power on a 16" wheel could really be bad should one stumble upon trouble in the middle of a corner.

I'm not gonna bash a pioneer spirit but i honestly believe your money would be better spent going another direction.


Kookaloo!

[FJmonkey]

I think one very important thing is being overlooked here.....IMO the only really bad handling characteristic of the early models with the 16" wheel is wanting to stand up when the brakes are applied while cornering..... upgrading to a 17" wheel eliminates this trait completely as well as reducing unsprung weight off the front end which actually improves the handling well above the previously mentioned issue.

Kookaloo!

I beg to differ on the point of stand-up while breaking in a corner. I owned a 86' Honda CBR 600 (Hurricane) fresh off the show room floor with 17" wheels front and back (I could of had an FJ,  ) . It was the SHIT at the time. It still stood up in the corners when braking. My 86' while stock stood up in the corners while breaking.... WTF??? The change in geometry as weight is shifted has more effect on stand-up than a little weight savings or wheel diameter.  The RPM valves control the dive (change in geometry) so much that dive is greatly reduced and with it the stand-up effect. The effect is still present but reduced. I feel way more confident in using more front brake than ever before. As much as I beat myself up for misjudging a corner and needing brakes to stay in the lane, I love having that real anti-dive control of the RPM valves. That is all for now....

[racerman_27410]

the reduced weight of the 17" front wheel imparts less gyroscopic energy and makes steering easier...... i rode my FJ stock once upon a time also!


what does a honda have to do with it?



KOokaloo! 

[FJmonkey]

Anyone that already had 17" front have any experience with before and after effects of the RPM fork vales while breaking in the corners??? Maybe I am feeling the effects of the 17" wheel as I did this at the same time.... Or the Blue dots are to blame.... Really, anyone?

[fintip]

It's an interesting discussion, actually. My front end will be stock, and I'm curious what just putting a radial, modern brakes, and rpm valves will do to the handling--if the 17" wheel is as big a factor as everyone thinks or not when all things are accounted for.

Can't hurt for sure! Too bad the shock upgrade looks to be about $350 in parts all things told, if I'm not mistaken. Makes me want to consider Alf's suggestion of just putting in springs for a while... But even that'd be $120, so if I go that far, might as well go all the way, no?

[fj11.5]

<<<<<<<<well my 84 pictured started standard, 16" wheels , forks springs ect, first upgrade was 89 forks with progressive springs, 17" wheel, , handling and steering was much improved, , just recently changed the rear to 17x 5.5" gsxr rear, and Honda f4 I shock , turned in so much easier , held a line well and changes direction mid corner , , then came the 17x3.5" front, improvement was so much better than the 3" rim ,, and to compare,  I have a standard 89 here , its like riding a tourer fully loaded , , hope to fit rpm fork valves sometime soon, should be even better ,

[Alf]

I´m with Pat: I ride habitually the 86 bike of a friend of mine and if there would be modern tyres choice I would adapt a 16" front wheel to my FJ

When I bought new my 1st 1200 3 CV after my 1100 I was completely frustrated about how slow the handling was. And yes, you can have the brake applied with the 16" inside the corner without problems

I think that this effect is due to the tyres fitted, because I don´t have that problem in my 16" CBX 750. The fast handling and the flickability are marvellous

[SlowOldGuy]

Once again, I'll disagree with Alf with my own experience. (Just curious Alf, is your friend running a 120 or 110 tire on his 16 inch wheel?)

I've posted this many times. The SINGLE MOST IMPRESSIVE mod I've done to my '85 FJ was upgrade to the 17 inch FJ front wheel.

Prior to this mod (and it was the ONLY mod I did at the time) my '85 was SHIT to ride.  It was a truck and I quit riding it because my '93 handled SO much better.  I was very curious why the '93 was so much better.  I took a chance and gathered the parts for the upgrade and it TOTALLY TRANSFORMED the bike.  Chris P. where are you to back me up?

At the time I completed this mod, I was working on another stock '85 FJ and riding them back-to-back was AMAZING.  The stock FJ was shit.  If I had to give up all my mods except for one, I'd keep the front wheel.

I'm with Frank on the brakes.  With Ferodo pads, my stock '85 brakes were killer.  The monoblocs with a stock master cylinder are not as good as what I had.  Although, I changed pads (for the first time) and cleaned all the caliper pistons last week and the few test rides I've had show the brakes working really good so far.

Everyone needs to remember, it's not just the wheel.  It's the wheel/tire combo along with the chassis geometry, so you can't compare a different bike with a 16 or 17 inch wheel, that's apples and oranges.  Also, I typically brake and set my entry speed well before the corner, so there's minimal weight transfer during the corner.  My stock FJ just did not want to stay leaned over, brakes or not.  I had to hold it down and it was even worse if I needed to brake while leaned over.

DavidR.