Bike will not start when jumped but will start when bumped but no head light

[scapello]

Help, please.

Had my 89 for 2 days now.   

- During the day I noticed that there was a rapidly repeating clicking sound coming from under the seat just as I would turn the ignition key on. It would then stop and I would start the bike no problem.
- Parked it in front of a store, turned it off, no issues.
- Came back about 10 minutes later, turned the key (i am not sure what the relay did at this point), pushed the starter button and the complete bike went dead including the watch in the dash.
- Turned the key back to the off position and the watch in the display comes back on.
- Try to start it again and nothing happens. All circuits are still dead.
- I am thinking dead starter, dead starter relay, dead battery
- Jumped the bike to the truck battery
- Now when I turn the key the neutral light and the fuel light come back on but the headlight stays off!
- When I push the starter button now the stater motor still does not turn but the starter relay (the round module directly in line of the positive lead?) clicks rapidly and the tachometer revs to about 3000rpm without the motor turning over.
- Now I am thinking dead starter relay or dead starter or gremlins.
- Put the seat back on. Run with the bike, pop the clutch in second and the engine starts. No head light, no dash lights, no neutral light. Tail and brake light work, signals work.
- Drive about 3 miles behind Jody, tada all lights come on like nothing happened.
- Put bike in garage and turn it off, turn key back on and start bike no problem.

I think I have a faulty starter relay but the whole headlight thing is odd unless the starter relay actually cuts the voltage tot eh headlight to have full power available to the starter while starting.

anyone had this issue and how did you solve it.

Steffen

[Dan Filetti]

Sounds to me like a loose connection of some sort -given it's intermittency .  Bad/ loose/ poorly grounded, ground maybe?  Get it running and measure the voltage across the terminals -should be ~ 13.8V.  Also check the side stand switch, and the neutral safety switch at the clutch -I think.  Other will correct me if I'm confusing this with another bike...

Good Luck,

Dan

[Marsh White]

I think you just described the classic symptoms of a stuck starter button.  Sounds lame...but it happens to people with FJs all the time.  The starter button gets stuck in halfway.  Try to manually pull it out all of the way.  You might have to take the switch housing apart and clean it up a bit.  Anyway...easy fix!  Try to pull the starter button out all the way with your thumbnail first.  Report back!

P.S. the clicking sound when you turn on the key is just the fuel pump filling up the carbs...normal...

[scapello]

Hi Marsh,

I did as you recommended and cleaned the starter switch and used some magic juice (WD40) and pulled it out all the way. Currently the bike is acting like i have a dead battery with dim lights and just a slight click when I press the starter button. I am going to put one of my deep cycles  on it to see what it does now.


Steffen

[scapello]

Ok, Same issue. Headlight and dash lights are now on but when I press the starter button all I get is a rapid repeated clicking of the actual starter relay.

I just read the service manual and there is something called the relay assembly as well. Do you know it's function?

Steffen

[Marsh White]

I'll wait for others here to chime in with specifics.  But, the rapid clicking is usually because the starter motor is not getting enough juice.  (the clicking is actually the relay I think)  Usually the problem is the battery.  But it sounds like you may have ruled that out.  Next check the wiring and connectors going to the starter relay from the battery and to the starter motor from the relay.  The big fat copper wiring can be corroded (it will look like light green powder) INSIDE the wire housing...so that you can't see it.  Bottom line...I think it is a juice issue.

If the relay is clicking fast with the new battery...then it is the connection from the relay to the starter motor.  I really am feeling like it is a juice/wiring issue.  I doubt that your starter motor has gone out...although it happens...it is fairly rare.

Wait...with the starter switch all the way out (hopefully not too wet from the WD-40) is the headlight on when you bump start it?  If it is not on when you bump start it...the problem is DEFINETLY still the starter switch.  Sounds like you have a shit battery too though...

[scapello]

It is getting too late to do the bump start in the neighborhood but I try it first thing in the morning. In the meantime I checked the main ground connection by just jumping a cable directly from the negative to the frame and got the same result. I am going to bump start it in the morning and see if the headlight stays on.

I bought the bike basically out of winter storage but it started and ran fine for the first 120 miles but I would not be too surprised if the battery is dying or if things are corroded over the winter,

Steffen

[Arnie]

Steffen,

At this point, you've tried a bunch of different possible fixes and still don't have it right.  I'd say that you now need to proceed methodically and find the problem.  Then you can proceed to fix whatever it is.

I'd start by charging the battery, then cleaning and tightening the connections to the battery.  You'll need to actually take the bolts out and clean each terminal.

Next, undo each other connection to the starter relay, starter, main fuse, etc. and clean them thoroughly before re-attaching them snuggly.  Certainly check the starter switch too, they can be a bitch.

It sounds like a connection problem, but may be a battery that just won't hold a charge, or dirty commutator in the starter, or one of the "safety" interlocks failing.

I've had symptoms like yours and found one of the battery connections was just loose.  Tightened it, and away I went (feeling stupid).

Cheers,
Arnie

[scapello]

Hi Arnie,

Thanks for the info.

I have the battery on a charger right now. I actually cleaned the terminals yesterday and also tried to start from a car battery without success so I think the connection problem is further down. I am going home at lunch to check some of the other connections and let you know how it went.

By the way, bump starting a bike (on a flat street) that sat overnight in about 30 degree weather should be included in the Olympics. I could not get her started this morning but the headlight comes on every time that I turn the key now. This is after I cleaned the starter buttton/switch.

More to come.....

Steffen

[scapello]

Looks like I have a dead bike battery and a dead deep cycle from my camper.

I know way more parts of my bike than what I wanted to know after 2 days of ownership, the tank is way heavy when full and does not balance well on the frame as you are trying to reach for the pliers for the fuel hose clamp, the starter comes out way easier once the Generator is removed, removing the airbox seems to involve removing the carbs or tipping the engine and once you notice that it is really hard to get the connection pieces back onto the carbs......
I would have had to figure this all out anyhow at some point and I deserved a long lunch.

I had every connector apart and cleaned, had the starter out to clean and tighten the positive lead, put everything back together and the same symptoms prevailed.
At that point I was still running on the deep cycle!
By mistake I touched the leads of the jumper cable together and got this tiny little spark only. 
Used the jumper cable to connect my truck battery (Ram 2500 Diesel, two big batteries!), bike started on the first push and on the next ten.
So right now while the new battery is charging the prognosis is that:
I had a dead battery (bike and trailer) - This explains the total collapse of the system
My starter switch was dirty - This explains the headlight issue

The only thing odd right now is that the bike could not be jumped while the bike battery was installed.

I know more in about three hours. Thanks for all the help, there might be light at the end of the tunnel.

Steffen

[Yamifj1200]

If your battery has an internal short or is highly oxidized it wont take a charge, and when jumping from another battery through a shorted battery you wont get the voltage needed to start the bike. Replace the battery and you should be good to go. I suggest an AGM style replacement...

Eric M

[scapello]

That seems to have been it. New battery works like a charm. I went with a Walmart cheapy just to make sure that this was the cause. The FJ type battery is a whole $33.

Thanks for all your help.

Steffen

[scapello]

How about this one?

http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/YTX14AHL-BS.html

[Yamifj1200]

How about this one?

http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/YTX14AHL-BS.html

That should be fine, I use the scorpion brand from the same seller... Glad thats all it was.... enjoy the new ride.....


Eric M

[Dan Filetti]

...removing the airbox seems to involve removing the carbs or tipping the engine and once you notice that it is really hard to get the connection pieces back onto the carbs

Steffen-

Glad to hear it was just a switch and a battery.  Good work.  Regarding the air box removal, if you remove the top 2 swing arm bolts, and loosen the bottom two, the swing arm will pivot down on the bottom 2 bolts which in turn provides you the crucial little bit of clearence needed to remove the air box, and the carbs as well...

FYI.

Dan