FIGHT THE POWER

[Dan Filetti]

So, you're saying that what the TSA agents did to her WAS ethical and legal??  I don't think so.......

Rich, please enlighten me.  I await, on the edge of my seat, your wisdom here.  Point to specific things in the video that the TSA agents did that were outside of their jurisdiction, illegal, or unethical.  They did not hurt her, yell at her or point weapons at her.  They side-lined her, and called the police, precisely because they believed, as I do, that she was there not to travel, but to advance a different agenda.  It would not surprise me in the slightest to find out she was not even a real mother/ or that was not even her own breast milk.  

I will hold out the possibility that I have incorrectly assumed that she came there looking for exactly what she got, but I would not bet on that.  

Oh, and for the record, I'd shag her too BTW....  

[Dan Filetti]

Where in their job description does it allow them to PUNISH anyone??  Cops as well!!  Their sole purpose in life(TSA) is to ensure the safety of the flying public......  Their attempting to PUNISH anyone IS unethical and illegal!

Read my earlier posts. perfect humans/ machines would not have this reaction, we can all aspire to be as good as machines I guess.  But these are real people doing their jobs and this woman was there, in my opinion, to make that job more difficult on purpose.  I'm guessing that you and the K-man are both lying to yourselves if you think that, if you were one of these guys, being intentionally *F*'d with, you'd treat her exactly the same as the person just before or just after that went about their business.  ANY different treatment, constitutes what I'm calling 'punishment'.  Thereafter it is merely shades of gray.

[Flying Scotsman]

Some people trying to feel important if you ask me.She was fucked with the first time and more so the second.What a waste of time and money.They screwed up and they know it thats why they didnt send a full copy.Trying to create job security.

[Dan Filetti]

I'm enjoying this.

Here it is, right off the TSA web-site, the woman was WRONG as I read it:

****To ensure the health and welfare of certain air travelers, in the absence of suspicious activity or items, greater than 3 ounces of the following liquids, gels and aerosols are permitted through the security checkpoint in reasonable quantities for the duration of your itinerary (all exceptions must be presented to the security officer in front of the checkpoint):

    * Baby formula, breast milk, and juice for infants and toddlers.****


THE BABY WAS NOT WITH HER, so she is not trying to "ensure the health and welfare of certain air travelers" [her baby].

A fairly easy case could be made that the other defined criteria "in the absence of suspicious activity" was not met either.

I'm telling you, something sure seems rotten in Denmark.  I suspect the media would have picked this up and run with it, if it passed the smell test, notice it has not...

[lawson]

Do ya think Larry King owns an FJ

[lawson]

Do you guys have talent night around campfire at night on Rallyes - Maybe we should reinact film clip.  Whos gonna be who? 

[Pat Conlon]

My turn for random disjointed thoughts, kinda like this thread.

As I see it, both parties are wrong ergo, offsetting penalties.

A "mother" flying without her baby, carrying breast milk in non prescribed containers, can be viewed as probable cause to be suspicious.
Sounds like just the tactic a fanitic would use to get bad stuff on a plane.

For some reason, worldwide, all security services (not just the TSA) have been freaked out about liquids accessible to passengers in the cabin.
They say a small amount mixed together can bring a plane down. Do they have cause to be alarmed? I dunno, they're the experts, I'm not.

Re: The video. The TSA weenies had to know that their actions were on camera, and thus just a subpoena away from public exposure.
This will be a good training exercise for all TSA employees. Ya better know the rules on what and in this case, what not to do.

I hope everyone keeps in mind that the TSA, as flawed as they may be, are here to do a job. I think an important job. Yes it's a PIA.

I have a solution:  If a woman, traveling alone (with no baby) wants to carry breast milk on board , no problem.
She just has to leave the milk in the original containers.....No problem!

Jammie time.

[wakdady]

when i was watching the video, a few minutes in, i wondered where the baby was...
so there are some good points being brought up against her and what her M.O was might have been.

but that is also to say that people such as Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr were just out to cause trouble and prove a point. When in fact, they were out to prove a point. And look what became of it.
Or say that American girl that got run over in Palestine by a US built bulldozer operated by Israeli's illegally tearing down Palestinian homes to steal more land.

If this was the "baby milk hijackers" motive, than I applaud her.

We all tend to take a back seat at all the injustices around us because; we have jobs, food, warm showers. We aren't willing to fight over anything. Unless of course the propaganda machine is on full tilt and you drink the cool-aid fast enough. Then it becomes; "gotta git dem terrorists!" blow shit up, invade countries, spread freedom, fight proxy war kinda deal.
I myself, am a hypocrite in all this. As my inaction makes me complicit in all of our wrong doings

now i will sit back and wait to see who will label me first.

[Mark Olson]

My turn for random disjointed thoughts, kinda like this thread.

As I see it, both parties are wrong ergo, offsetting penalties.

A "mother" flying without her baby, carrying breast milk in non prescribed containers, can be viewed as probable cause to be suspicious.
Sounds like just the tactic a fanitic would use to get bad stuff on a plane.

For some reason, worldwide, all security services (not just the TSA) have been freaked out about liquids accessible to passengers in the cabin.
They say a small amount mixed together can bring a plane down. Do they have cause to be alarmed? I dunno, they're the experts, I'm not.

Re: The video. The TSA weenies had to know that their actions were on camera, and thus just a subpoena away from public exposure.
This will be a good training exercise for all TSA employees. Ya better know the rules on what and in this case, what not to do.

I hope everyone keeps in mind that the TSA, as flawed as they may be, are here to do a job. I think an important job. Yes it's a PIA.

I have a solution:  If a woman, traveling alone (with no baby) wants to carry breast milk on board , no problem.
She just has to leave the milk in the original containers.....No problem!

Jammie time.

A simple taste test would have cleared this up , I am sure one of the TSA guys would have volunteered to compare the bottle to the tap. 

[RichBaker]

Where in their job description does it allow them to PUNISH anyone??  Cops as well!!  Their sole purpose in life(TSA) is to ensure the safety of the flying public......  Their attempting to PUNISH anyone IS unethical and illegal!

Read my earlier posts. perfect humans/ machines would not have this reaction, we can all aspire to be as good as machines I guess.  But these are real people doing their jobs and this woman was there, in my opinion, to make that job more difficult on purpose.  I'm guessing that you and the K-man are both lying to yourselves if you think that, if you were one of these guys, being intentionally *F*'d with, you'd treat her exactly the same as the person just before or just after that went about their business.  ANY different treatment, constitutes what I'm calling 'punishment'.  Thereafter it is merely shades of gray.

I still don't see where SHE was intentionally F'ing with the TSA .... All I see is your opinion that she is.  Whereas it is quite obvious that TSA is F'ing her around.

[Dan Filetti]

I still don't see where SHE was intentionally F'ing with the TSA .... All I see is your opinion that she is.  Whereas it is quite obvious that TSA is F'ing her around.

You are correct, it is my opinion.  However, it is an informed opinion.  I base this opinion on the following:

1) She brought breast milk, in a bag, but no child for a flight that takes ~1H 15M, with security and logistics on either end perhaps 4 hours -why??
2) Why not leave it in it's 'original container' for that time, which she easily could have done?  If she needed to, she easily could have expressed it, and discarded if she was worried about engorgement.  This is an extremely common practice among nursing mothers.
3) where the F* was the kid -In LA?
4) She easily could have re-charged her milk supply for the kid over that 4hours.
5) Watch closely her posture, when the cop walks into the booth -she got her arms on her hips -defiantly, facing away from him, she does not look at him for a while.
6) She digs in, and let's it go for as long as it did.  She had several opportunities to diffuse the situation, she does not take advantage of any of them.
7) The media did not pick this up and run with it as they are so very prone to do. Conjecture: because they, like me, smell a rat.
8 ) She had a printed copy of the FAA rules with her -suspicious, to say the least.   -How does this not speak to her coming prepared for a fight??!!
9) There is reference to her being there the week before, having also caused trouble.  Is she incapable of learning?
10) The fact that she requested the footage, and *somehow*, it wound up on youtube.
11) Her interpretation of the rules, was patently wrong from where I sit.

Again, I hold out the possibility that I have assumed incorrectly, but I would not bet on it.

Dan  

[Pat Conlon]

We all tend to take a back seat at all the injustices around us because; we have jobs, food, warm showers. We aren't willing to fight over anything. Unless of course the propaganda machine is on full tilt and you drink the cool-aid fast enough. Then it becomes; "gotta git dem terrorists!" blow shit up, invade countries, spread freedom, fight proxy war kinda deal.
I myself, am a hypocrite in all this. As my inaction makes me complicit in all of our wrong doings, now i will sit back and wait to see who will label me first.

Naaa Henry, I'm not gonna label you. You love FJ's, that's good enough for me.

For me, it's about picking your battles. Here's one injustice that can have far ranging implications:
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3105.0


<edit> As requested, I moved my reply out of this TSA topic and over to the guns section.   Pat

[mikeholzer]

You are correct, it is my opinion.  However, it is an informed opinion.  I base this opinion on the following:

1) She brought breast milk, in a bag, but no child for a flight that takes ~1H 15M, with security and logistics on either end perhaps 4 hours -why??
2) Why not leave it in it's 'original container' for that time, which she easily could have done?  If she needed to, she easily could have expressed it, and discarded if she was worried about engorgement.  This is an extremely common practice among nursing mothers.
3) where the F* was the kid -In LA?
4) She easily could have re-charged her milk supply for the kid over that 4hours.
5) Watch closely her posture, when the cop walks into the booth -she got her arms on her hips -defiantly, facing away from him, she does not look at him for a while.
6) She digs in, and let's it go for as long as it did.  She had several opportunities to diffuse the situation, she does not take advantage of any of them.
7) The media did not pick this up and run with it as they are so very prone to do. Conjecture: because they, like me, smell a rat.
8 ) She had a printed copy of the FAA rules with her -suspicious, to say the least.   -How does this not speak to her coming prepared for a fight??!!
9) There is reference to her being there the week before, having also caused trouble.  Is she incapable of learning?
10) The fact that she requested the footage, and *somehow*, it wound up on youtube.
11) Her interpretation of the rules, was patently wrong from where I sit.

Again, I hold out the possibility that I have assumed incorrectly, but I would not bet on it.

Dan   

Normally, I don't have opinions that I'd share verbally on subjects like this one, but I'm siding with Dan on this. The argument in the video about transporting the "product" so that her child may eat in a few hours is flawed, as she's storing fresher product elsewhere.

She went looking for a situation and she found it.

[Arnie]

The maxim, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" springs to mind. 

I see this as the TSA operatives abuse of power.  You take high school dropouts, give them what should be a very highly regarded position of trust, then bore them to death with routine and detail.  Nevertheless, they still have a uniform and enough power to bully anyone who even thinks about challenging their authority.  While there may be some method of appealing their instant rulings in the fullness of time, the immediate result is that the passenger has been delayed sufficiently to miss their flight and generally lose the cost of that flight plus the general upset of your schedule.

I find that I dress differently when travelling than normal.  Not only do I make sure I have no sharps in my pockets or carry-on luggage, but I try to comply with their ever increasing petty restrictions so I'm not inconvienced any more than unavoidable.  Still, I seem to be taken out of line or stopped once through security for "extra" (supposedly) "random" checks.
I can't even blame only the US TSA for this, as its happened to me in Sydney when I'd only been an "in-transit" passenger having been thoroughly checked in Melbourne.  And in San Francisco, Detroit, and Las Vegas too.  I haven't traveled to or through US since the newest round of restrictions, so I don't quite know what I'll be up for.
I don't even think I'd mind if the time and inconvience would actually make my flying safer.  I don't believe it does and the imposition on my time and the invasion of my privacy is therefore unwarranted. 

As for the mother in the glass booth - they could have easily taken the (declared) milk decanted it into a double plastic bag (the bags they give those who don't bring their own quart bag) and had the flight attendant maintain possession during the flight.  The choice to delay, harrass, and intimidate, the passenger was unproductive, IMO

Cheers,
Arnie