Colin's FJ1200

[FJ1200W]

Had a buddy bugging me for a couple of years to work on one of his FJ's.
He dropped it off a few weeks ago, and I made a little time to get started.
Nothing really scary other than the smell of the fuel in the tank.
Front brakes are inop, think I'll remove the antidive for him.
Clutch hydraulics want some TLC.
I noticed some silicone used on the valve cover and bolts, that's going to be corrected.
I'm just glad to be starting, due to family crisis after crisis, hoping for some wrench and riding time. 

[FJ1200W]

I decided to take my FJ to a local shop to order up a battery for the project.
My bike sat for a long time, weeks, maybe months, but it fired right up.
I made it to the bike shop, ordered the good but inexpensive battery I wanted, went back out to my bike, and it would not start.
WTF!
Clock was on, turn key on, clock would go out.
One of the techs tried a jump pack, no bueno, at least it showed 12.8 volts on the battery.
I went ahead and checked all the fuses, all the connections I could see and even wiggled a few I could not see.
Plenty of suggestions and advise from the guys at the shop - and some suggestions on how I should own a Harley to avoid these issues.
I finally borrowed the owners Fluke meter and diagnosed my battery crapped out.
The Fluke showed 10.8 volts at the battery, hit the key, it immediatley dropped to almost nothing. Simple.  
That battery was only a year old, it was an emergency purchase and was a "Chinese" battery. I either have a charging issue or a vibration issue. Or just a shit battery.
Anyway, they had a new Yuasa AGM on hand, bought it, installed it, the rest, is me riding!

[Pat Conlon]

Check your charging volts. Check the battery specs.
I smoked a perfectly good AGM with my 15+ volt charging current.
I installed the Transpo voltage regulator and adjusted it down to 14.4 and all is well.
Even my light bulbs are happier.
The Old school oem lead acid batteries are more tolerant to 15+ charging volts than Li or AGM batteries.

[FJ1200W]

Check your charging volts. Check the battery specs.
I smoked a perfectly good AGM with my 15+ volt charging current.
I installed the Transpo voltage regulator and adjusted it down to 14.4 and all is well.
Even my light bulbs are happier.
The Old school oem lead acid batteries are more tolerant to 15+ charging volts than Li or AGM batteries.

Excellent advice and suggestions - thank you!

[Stevecampy]

Thanks for the side picture helped with placement of electrics.

[FJ1200W]

Finally made some time to dive into Colin's bike.
These bikes are so easy to work on, they truly are a joy!
Note the one vent hose than was crimped the last time these carbs were rebuilt - It's easy to see which carb that was in upcoming pictures.

[FJ1200W]

These carbs smelled like, well, you know -

Whiskey bottles, and brand new cars
Oak tree you're in my way
There's too much coke and too much smoke
Look what's going on inside you

Ooooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you

Ironic, the cleanest of the carbs ended up being the one with the crimped vent line.

These carbs, well, they would need complete disassembly IMO to work well again, and I'm not really in the mood for that.

So, I waved a bottle of SeaFoam over them, chanted "vroom vroom" three times and like magic, they're clean!

Well, maybe in my dreams.

Luckily I have a rack of late model carbs, ready to go.

When I went to check the airbox, I noticed, it was occupied.....

[FJ1200W]

I'll just remove that old airbox and replace it with the RPM filters.

I'm going through the "new" carbs, they seem to be jetted properly for this application, thank goodness.

One float valve needle spring was stuck, it freed up quickly. I'm going to check/set the float heights, then inspect the diaphrams and needles.

Any suggestions on a fuel pump? Pressure spec's, minimum/maximum flow?

I'm leaning towards a toggle switch to activate it, rather than wiring it in to switched power.

The vacuum petcock, I guess I'll have to "fix" it to be full flow, add a filter and a check valve to the system.

Thoughts?

[Pat Conlon]

Any suggestions on a fuel pump? Pressure spec's, minimum/maximum flow?

I'm leaning towards a toggle switch to activate it, rather than wiring it in to switched power.

The vacuum petcock, I guess I'll have to "fix" it to be full flow, add a filter and a check valve to the system.

Thoughts?

Hey Steve, those carbs are a perfect candidate for a ultrasound bubble bath, that way you can be assured all the internal passages are cleaned out. Robert at RPM did a fine job on a set of carbs I sent him.

I am going to convert my gravity fed '84 over to a fuel pump just so I can run a proper fuel filter.
My tank (like me) is not getting any younger and the better filtering on the fuel system, the happier my carbs will be.... Anyhoo...
I plan on on using a key switched 12v power and running it through this controller box:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334059928374
This will mimic what the oem fuel pump FJ bikes do. It allows an initial 3 second prime upon key on power and importantly, it shuts off the fuel pump when there is no tach. signal. In the unfortunate event of an accident...you do not want the fuel pump continuing to run with a dead engine. If you break a fuel line between the pump and engine, the engine will stall from lack of fuel, when the engine stalls the tach signal stops and thus, so does the fuel pump, however, if you break a fuel line between the tank and pump you're fucked, look for a fire extinguisher. (unless you wire in an electrical solenoid at the petcock)
Think of the controller like a vacuum petcock, no vacuum = petcock closes, same principal except with a tach signal.
I also plan on running a oem Yamaha fuel pump...no more Chinese shit pumps for me...
Don't forget to change your float needles to the smaller diameter needles used for the fuel pump carbs.
The higher line pressure from the fuel pump will overwhelm the larger diameter gravity flow needles resulting in flooding.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9836.0

Cheers mate.   Pat

[FJ1200W]

Any suggestions on a fuel pump? Pressure spec's, minimum/maximum flow?

I'm leaning towards a toggle switch to activate it, rather than wiring it in to switched power.

The vacuum petcock, I guess I'll have to "fix" it to be full flow, add a filter and a check valve to the system.

Thoughts?

Hey Steve, those carbs are a perfect candidate for a ultrasound bubble bath, that way you can be assured all the internal passages are cleaned out. Robert at RPM did a fine job on a set of carbs I sent him.

I am going to convert my gravity fed '84 over to a fuel pump just so I can run a proper fuel filter.
My tank (like me) is not getting any younger and the better filtering on the fuel system, the happier my carbs will be.... Anyhoo...
I plan on on using a key switched 12v power and running it through this controller box:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334059928374
This will mimic what the oem fuel pump FJ bikes do. It allows an initial 3 second prime upon key on power and importantly, it shuts off the fuel pump when there is no tach. signal. In the unfortunate event of an accident...you do not want the fuel pump continuing to run with a dead engine. If you break a fuel line between the pump and engine, the engine will stall from lack of fuel, when the engine stalls the tach signal stops and thus, so does the fuel pump, however, if you break a fuel line between the tank and pump you're fucked, look for a fire extinguisher. (unless you wire in an electrical solenoid at the petcock)
Think of the controller like a vacuum petcock, no vacuum = petcock closes, same principal except with a tach signal.
I also plan on running a oem Yamaha fuel pump...no more Chinese shit pumps for me...
Don't forget to change your float needles to the smaller diameter needles used for the fuel pump carbs.
The higher line pressure from the fuel pump will overwhelm the larger diameter gravity flow needles resulting in flooding.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9836.0

Cheers mate.   Pat

I'm using a set of carbs from a later year model, so the float needles should be good to go.

Any idea on the fuel pressure needed?

I was considering something along these lines - But thought the pressure might be too high.

Holley Electric External 32 GPH Low Pressure Fuel Pump All Fuel Universal 12-427

Holley pumps have fueled more performance engines than all others and the Holley line keeps on growing! Holley is proud to introduce the all new Holley Mighty Mite™ electric fuel pumps! They're big on performance, but small in size! They're quiet, easy to install and work with gas, diesel, blended alcohol and E85!

12 volt operation
4-7 psi operating pressure
32 gal/hr flow
Good for up to 400HP naturally aspirated
Reliable solid state design provides longer life
Compatible with all fuels and fuel additives (gas, diesel, blended alcohol, ethanol, e-85)
Simple 2 wire hookup
Self-priming and regulating
12" dry lift capable
Quiet operation – 65db
Great for carbureted trucks, cars, generators and agricultural equipment – also makes a great transfer pump
Engineered and matched performance with Holley®, Demon®, Quick Fuel® and Edelbrock® carburetors(all trademarks are property of their respective owners. Edelbrock is a registered trademark of Edelbrock,LLC)
Comes with fuel filter, fittings and mounting hardware
Made in the USA

or this one from Summit racing

Brand: Derale Cooling Products
Manufacturer's Part Number: 72001
Part Type: Fuel Pumps
Product Line: Derale Universal Inline Fuel Pumps
Summit Racing Part Number: DER-72001
UPC: 83277720017
Fuel Pump Type: Electric external
Fuel Pump Voltage: 12 V
Flow Rate: 26.4 gph/100 lph
Fuel Pressure (psi): 2-3.5 psi
Fuel Pressure Regulator Included: No
Sending Unit Included: No
Fuel Pump Inlet Size: 1/8 in. NPT
Inlet Quantity: One
Inlet Attachment: Hose barb
Fuel Pump Outlet Size: 1/8 in. NPT
Outlet Quantity: One
Outlet Attachment: Female threads
Gasket Included: No
Wiring Harness Included: No
Mounting Bracket Included: No
Mounting Hardware Included: No
Pulley Included: No
Quantity: Sold individually.
Derale Universal Inline Fuel Pumps

Derale universal inline fuel pumps are assembled using only the highest quality materials, manufacturing methods and technology in order to ensure maximum performance and reliability. These pumps cover a wide range of low-pressure carbureted fuel system applications. They're also available for a variety of fuel types, including gasoline, diesel, E85, E100, M100, and racing fuel.

Additional product features:

* Compact design
* Constant high-flow rate
* Consistent pressure
* Rotary vane inline pump
* Includes all necessary hardware

My customer wants it wired in, so I'll have to consider a controller, good call, thank you!

[Pat Conlon]

Which ever aftermarket pump you choose be sure it completely shuts off the fuel flow when not powered.
Some pumps do not because they were designed with the pump and fuel tank located below the carb level so they just need to pump the fuel up hill, no need for a check valve, gravity holds the fuel back.

With our FJ's the fuel is above the carbs, so the pump has to hold the fuel back when de-powered.

Cheers

Pat

[Dads_FJ]

Which ever aftermarket pump you choose be sure it completely shuts off the fuel flow when not powered.
Some pumps do not because they were designed with the pump and fuel tank located below the carb level so they just need to pump the fuel up hill, no need for a check valve, gravity holds the fuel back.

With our FJ's the fuel is above the carbs, so the pump has to hold the fuel back when de-powered.

Cheers

Pat

This fits the bill and is the one I used on my '89.

Facet - FPF-40178N   12V, 2-3.5PSI

[FJ1200W]

Which ever aftermarket pump you choose be sure it completely shuts off the fuel flow when not powered.
Some pumps do not because they were designed with the pump and fuel tank located below the carb level so they just need to pump the fuel up hill, no need for a check valve, gravity holds the fuel back.

With our FJ's the fuel is above the carbs, so the pump has to hold the fuel back when de-powered.

Cheers

Pat

This fits the bill and is the one I used on my '89.

Facet - FPF-40178N   12V, 2-3.5PSI

Thank you both - Great info!

Solid State Fuel Pump For 12V 36" / 91.44cm Min Dry Lift 15 GPH; FPF-40178N

Part Number: FPF-40178N
MPN: FPF-40178N
Part Type: Fuel Pump
Warranty: 1 Year

Electrical Aftermarket Parts for Virtually Any Vehicle
DB Electrical is a leading source for rotating electrical products for autos, trucks, motorcycles, ATVs, farm tractors and many other vehicles. We stand behind every product with our total-confidence 1-year warranty. Yes, you have a full year to make sure your order meets your expectations.

SPECIFICATIONS
Description   Solid State Fuel Pump
Fitting Type   1/8-27 Internally Threaded
GPH   15
Includes Check Valve?   Yes
Includes Positive Shutoff Valve?   Yes
Includes Quiet Valve?   No
Max Shutoff Pressure   3.5 PSI
Min Dry Lift   36in / 91.44cm
Min Shutoff Pressure   2 PSI
Negative Leads   0.25" Ring Terminal
Packaging   Box
Voltage   12
OEM(s)   Facet Fuel Pumps
Application   All Carburetor-Equipped Cars, Vans & Light Trucks, Stationary Engines, Gen-Sets, Fuel Priming & Transfer Applications
Features   Compatible - with Leaded or Unleaded Gasoline, Diesel Fuel, Blended Fuels, Pure Alcohol & Fuel Additives. Reliable - No Electrical Contacts, Bearings, Rubber Diaphragms or Valves to Wear Out or Fatigue. Easy to Install & Service. Eliminates Vapor Lock - for Constant, Smooth Fuel Delivery on Hot Days & High Altitudes. Pressure Relief - Eliminates Flooding & Assures Satisfactory Restarting on the Hottest Days. Corrosion Resistant - the All Steel Case Is Plated to Provide Over 100 Hours of Salt Spray Resistance. Self-Priming - to 12 Inches of Fuel Lift.

INTERCHANGES
Arrowhead   FPF-40178N
Facet Fuel Pumps   40178
Federal Mogul   P70090, P70091
Freightliner   FEP480598
Gehl   77663
Kohler   249862, 278490
Tennant   59945, 61961

[ribbert]

Which ever aftermarket pump you choose be sure it completely shuts off the fuel flow when not powered.
Some pumps do not because they were designed with the pump and fuel tank located below the carb level so they just need to pump the fuel up hill, no need for a check valve, gravity holds the fuel back.

With our FJ's the fuel is above the carbs, so the pump has to hold the fuel back when de-powered.

Cheers

Pat

I found this on an FJ site:

Damn shame there's not some way of mechanically shutting off the fuel supply when the ignition is turned off, you would think someone would have come up with a way of doing it by now.

Relying on the pump alone to hold back head pressure is never a good idea, clearly evidenced by the number of FJ's that suffer incontinence at some point in their life and the many for whom it's an ongoing issue because of poor advice.

This is something that Yamaha, or at least their supplier, didn't get quite right. The original pump is no doubt an off the shelf item, in all likelihood chosen without taking into account the unusual application (head pressure)


Noel

[red]

Which ever aftermarket pump you choose be sure it completely shuts off the fuel flow when not powered.  Cheers
Pat

I found this on an FJ site:
Damn shame there's not some way of mechanically shutting off the fuel supply when the ignition is turned off, you would think someone would have come up with a way of doing it by now.
Relying on the pump alone to hold back head pressure is never a good idea, clearly evidenced by the number of FJ's that suffer incontinence at some point in their life and the many for whom it's an ongoing issue because of poor advice.
Noel

Noel,

Amazon is one easy source for a variety of "normally closed" 12Vdc solenoid valves for fuel.  I'm sure there are many out there.  They have various pipe diameters, so you can insure good fuel flow.  A solenoid will usually draw more electrical power than a relay, but still not a lot.  If you power the solenoid from a relay-controlled fuse block, you should be golden.