FJ VRS Blackbird

[fj1289]

You ought to message Bee Johnson (sbikebee) - he used to tune FZ750's in superbike.  Knows a thing or two about them 

He was pretty active on the yahoo site, only popped up here a couple of times.  He converted one of the old racers to a street bike. 

[giantkiller]

You ought to message Bee Johnson (sbikebee) - he used to tune FZ750's in superbike.  Knows a thing or two about them  

He was pretty active on the yahoo site, only popped up here a couple of times.  He converted one of the old racers to a street bike.  

year
The  87 FZR750R I have was the human race team's factory kitted bike. It was the World endurance champion for 2 years. Bought it from Dave Zuppan.
If I remember right the fz's had a different motor. The cylinders were  canted forward more. But tuning was probably about the same. It would be cool to lern from someone like him.

[Millietant]

Dean - I'm not delusional enough (yet!) to think you'd easily match the newer "hyper bikes" HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.

Now you've got me thinking Chris....and dreaming......about the next upgrades for my FJ.....

More power with least expense, don't want pod filters, don't want it overly loud (keeping my Remus exhaust) - how easy ??

I built my FJ1300 (1297cc) with an eye for reliability and daily use. I think the key was .... No fiddling with the cam timing, and I kept the CV carbs.
I had 14,000 trouble free miles on it.

I'm liking the idea Fred - one of my closest friends (and my regular mechanical guru) is an ex FJ Racer, who had +140 bhp out of his FJ 1100 (with a FJ 12 motor) - once he retires from full time work I think I'm going to get him to help me build a FJ 1300 motor too, with "semi-sensible" cams, set to give even more of the gorgeous mid range power I love 

[Mike Ramos]

Gentlemen,

Below is a from post way back in 2012 about an encounter with a Hayabusa & the new Fork Valves.  Without a doubt it out powers the old FJ however the FJ did well in this brief encounter - since then and several hundred thousand miles, a 2nd low mileage FJ (and a suicidal antelope) later, the old FJ still runs well and holds up well when compared to and competes with other motorcycles. 

Local riding or cross country sojourns with the modern updates & tuned as per RPM recommendations, along with the available suspension components it's an excellent all around performer...!

Ride safe & watch out for wildlife...

Midget


 
Hello everyone,

A true tale...

My introduction to a Hayabusa and a rider in full leathers who looked good and fit the bike well...

Soooo, there I am cruising north on Highway 80 on a recent Saturday morning with soft saddlebags & tank bag, minding my own business [favoring the slow lanes] when a headlight appears in the fast lanes in the distance in my mirror. I pick it up a bit and so does the light... I then increase to the high 80's and so does the light... so at 5,500 rpm I am bopping down the road at 95 mph and the headlight still remains distant... well eventually he catches up, you see the Hwy. 505 cutoff is approaching and that is what he is taking, as am I... so after he catches up I pick it up a notch and am indicating 6,000 rpm (105 mph) and we are rapidly approaching the 505 exit and I am thinking "I don't like this" [it is a two lane sky way with a left hand sweeper followed immediately by a right hand sweeper] because at normal speeds it is dangerous as there are no shoulders and both turns are blind with no where to go if there is a stall in either lane. So as I am preparing to [perhaps] meet my demise and saying to myself "Randy, if those Fork Valves don't work under these conditions I suppose I will see you... in the afterlife!" (I kid you not).
Then as we approach the sky way, he quite dramatically down shifts, shaking his whole bike, and slows down a notch or two, I thought he was getting off at the exit at the approach to the skyway when alas I realized (just a tad late) he is just as scared as am I. Initially, I did not down shift because at 6,000 because if I had to shut down rapidly, without a slipper clutch it would be all I could do keep the rear end from chattering uncontrollably without pulling in the clutch and I did not think I had the courage to do so; so as we enter the skyway I do finally downshift as he begins to accelerate and I am accelerating as hard as I can as well, but although he is [naturally] pulling away, he tops out (by choice) and on the right hander I catch him... I do not know the speed as I am busy riding (okay, hanging on for my life) but it is more than I am comfortable with... as we hit the straight we slow and with a wave he exits the first exit.
I then cruise the remaining three hours home thanking Providence, RPM, Randy, the fork valves and the fork brace that holds the front end all together...
Moral of the story? Despite the vaunted upside down forks and the husky large diameter axle, the old FJ attained, momentarily anyway, parity without bending the skinny old axle & slender fork tubes.
The available to all Fork Valves performed under conditions I had not yet encountered.
And finally, based on the advice offered by the gentleman from RPM who has built perhaps more FJ engines than anyone else on the Forum [and certainly has gained more podium & first place finishes and Championships!], and despite the abuse of the high mileage engine, it never pinged, knocked or ran on three cylinders regardless of ambient temperatures and time of day, and performed well without missing a beat...

So that is my story and I am sticking to it. Actually, writing about it still makes me nervous!

All in good humor & keep smiling.

Mike Ramos.

[fj1289]

Ah - I missed the "R" at the end.   The engine cylinder angles are identical - just in the FZR the engine FAA rotated forward a bit - engines swap easily between the frames.  

I forgot about Mike's little encounter - good read again!

[Motofun]

Ha Ha...Who are you kidding Mike?  I rode the Cherahola with you a few years ago.  I was pushing it (said in my best Valentino voice  ).  Looked back and you were giving me the "When are you going to start?" look.

[Alf]

Maybe Steve Baumann can weigh in. I know that he had a Blackbird and his FJ1200. He sold the Blackbird a few years ago.

Many owners never appreciate how great the FJ really is. It may not be the fastest, it may not have the best handling, it may not be the most comfortable, and it may not be the lightest in weight.What the FJ is...
Not the best in a single category, but is above average in every category I listed. That is usually the formula that Honda prescribed for their bikes back in the 1990's.

I have never ridden a Blackbird, but I can use my VFR750 as an example. I have handlebar risers and lowered pegs installed. The riding position is now about the same as a stock FJ. There is about 50lbs less weight and down about 25hp. I love the bike as the ride is very much like a miniature FJ with a snarl.


Fred

Completely agree with Fred, except about the VFR: sweet, handsome and brilliant quality bike, but not in the same league than FJ, starting for the underpowered engine and following for the chassis that make improved FJs so good in first place. VFRs are slow and the chassis start flexing when riding turn a bit inspiring.

Sorry Fred 

[Alf]

Thanks Fred -
I had a 2001 XX in Titanium and flat out loved it.
Normal mods - lower footpegs, handlebar risers. Aftermarket cans and a PCIII. Changed the fuel pressure regulator and a few other things, they are awesome machines.
No comparison in power to the FJ, the XX has a warp drive one must experience to believe.
Handling, I found it excellent for what the bike was - and comfort, it was not bad, all day comfy, no worries.
Why did I sell it?
I decided I valued my life.
That bike would cruise comfortably at well over a hundred, would leap to a buck fifty in seconds.
A hundred literally felt like 55.
I like to ride fast and if I had not sold it, I doubted I would last -
I had never been able to break 100 in the 1/8 mile. I did on my 1st pass on the XX. It's that quick and fast, even with my hand on the bars.
Dislikes: More difficult to work on than the FJ, but not asinine in terms of engineering.
If the FJ is a P51 fighter, the XX is exactly what it is - the Blackbird.
Apples and oranges.
Both worthy of owning.

Living in an curvy environmental where outright power is superfluous, XX are soft, overweighted and not so funny when on secondary roads, being my improved FJs much more flickable, with better handling and capable of riding faster with more confidence.

Something faster than both, with better handling, better brakes, outright engine, better stability... better almost everything is the Hayabusa. At 200 km/h on motorway feels 40, only the sensation that cars are stopped at your sides

I love it. But I would not last too much, assuming that I would not go to jail first

[ribbert]

Living in an curvy environmental where outright power is superfluous, XX are soft, overweighted and not so funny when on secondary roads, being my improved FJs much more flickable, with better handling and capable of riding faster with more confidence.

Couldn't agree more Alf, my modified FJ in a "curvy environment" is a winner. When looking for something for the same duties and to compliment the FJ a few years back, I found the Blackbird, FJR and GTR to all be in the same boat, all fast in a straight line but hard work in the twisties, the first few corners even a bit scary until you settle in.

As you say, an excess of power in those conditions is superfluous, I chose something with enough grunt but light handling, even though it weighs the same as the FJ, and after a 12 hour day of twisties, that's what you want, 200hp doesn't really improve the ride under those conditions.

Noel

[TomJK]

Hi
I owned 4 ZZR 1100 (ZX11) and a Blackbird, the FJ is a smooth nice ride, compared to the Kawa's and the Honda, Ok when going fast is your only worry, there the FJ looses, but for nice touring the FJ is hard to beat, in 1999 I rode a friends FJ he rode my Blackbird, no contest the FJ wins on smoothness and comfort....
Cheers,
Tom.

[Motofun]

If you're going to do a comparison then at least keep the rules intact.  Throw thousands of dollars at the FJ and compare it to a stock XX?  I think we can all agree that stock suspensions are sh*t (especially those from the 80's and 90's).  They work well enough for most applications but begin to fail when pushed beyond the 80% limit.
Neither bike actually works well in the super tight twisty sections where weight becomes the restraining parameter.  Of course modern tires and suspension go a long way to help either bike but eventually the physics of momentum overcome available traction.  Lets not forget that the deciding factor is the monkey sitting on top of the bike.
The FJ is a superb bike for its time.  Farkle it with modern parts and it's still a capable machine.  Hell, I own 2 of them, one since 1985.  Just don't kid yourself into thinking it is better than some of the modern stuff.  This is where you can talk about Josh Hayes on a FJ at Phillip Island......Not all monkeys are equal!   

[Alf]

If you're going to do a comparison then at least keep the rules intact.  Throw thousands of dollars at the FJ and compare it to a stock XX?  I think we can all agree that stock suspensions are sh*t

Last summer, with a FJ only upgraded with front callipers and Hagon fork springs on Avon Spirit tyres in stock rims and with stock rear shock, no more upgrades. Not thousand euros spent at all. In fact, only with a good revamp to stock set up because the bike was found lying down in a barn. It was much better than a stock XX in sport riding

Just don't kid yourself into thinking it is better than some of the modern stuff.  This is where you can talk about Josh Hayes on a FJ at Phillip Island......Not all monkeys are equal!  

And yes, that humble resurrected FJ is better than a moded Bandid 1250 or FJRs or GTRs, that last two simply too big and ponderous

Have anyone notice that FJs looked big not only in its day, even in 2003 when I bought my 3cv, and now look even minute at the side of big lumps that those mentioned?

[Alf]

The 3CV owner that lent me the bike to our annual meeting was the owner of a marvellous 3XW example. Upgraded with brakes and rims, running on 120/180 sizes Avon Spirits.

Even although I dialed carefully the suspension on both bikes, the 3XW behaved similar to a GSXR 1100 K 1989, wallowing, shaking the head, opening the draw inside a curve with the throttle on and shaking its head when throttled was closed. An emergency improved torque of the head bearings (hard tighten down, then loose up and hand-torque tighten due to our lack of a proper torque wrench, you know) solved the handling problems and the quality of ride was superb.

BUT... even with modern rims in a more cared bike, this 3XW was at the 85% maybe than this near stock 3CV in hard sport riding. Modded 3CVs like mine are even far better

[Old Rider]

Fj is not slow
once up on a time a loud repsol painted honda cbr1000rr came from behind and up on my side the pilot turned his head looking downward at my fj then downshifted and
roaring away i did the same and after some hectic kilometers when he was going to turn off the road he turned his head again to confirm i was gone but what did he
see ? there the old  Queen was right behind him kookalaoo. 

[fj1289]

If you're going to do a comparison then at least keep the rules intact.  Throw thousands of dollars at the FJ and compare it to a stock XX? 

I think three things here really play in the FJ's favor - lower buy-in cost (not counting crazy crack-head deals that aren't the norm), the FJ responds really well to mods - big improvements for moderate investments, and RPM at your disposal for recommendations and bespoke parts