FJ VRS Blackbird

[gumby302ho]

 So I have put almost a thousand klicks on the blackbird and still not becoming one with it just yet. Some pros and cons from my personal perception of coarse. First off I find my FJ way more stable coming into hot corners, I feel the bird is a little twitchy like an excited young horse where as the FJ does not spook and complies. The bird has skiny little foot pegs which require a stiffer boot as it feels your feet are folding around the pegs like one is wearing flip flops. The FJ of coarse has proper foot pegs and is normal. On a comfort level the FJ wins again as the bird is a touch more leaning angle and one needs good strong wrists or keep the speed above 145km/hr.(both bikes have bar risers). I was annoyed with heat streaming off the lower right side into my leg constantly, the FJ never bothered me with heat being blasted at me. People say the bird is legendary smooth, I dont feel its as smooth as what has been written about them, the bar ends are whimpy little units using a JIS screw that ties into some rubber mount inside the bars, can never get them tight, I already went with heavy bar ends and it did help. Getting back to cornering, it could be me squeezing to hard and not fully relaxed causing the bird to twitch but I have tried and still would rather be on the FJ when heading into a hot corner. The Blackbird is still a fun motorcycle and I wont praise it to much but it is no ITX!

[fj1289]

I'm assuming for outright power the Blackbird gets the nod .... but put some work into the FJ engine and that may change!

[aviationfred]

Maybe Steve Baumann can weigh in. I know that he had a Blackbird and his FJ1200. He sold the Blackbird a few years ago.

Many owners never appreciate how great the FJ really is. It may not be the fastest, it may not have the best handling, it may not be the most comfortable, and it may not be the lightest in weight.What the FJ is...
Not the best in a single category, but is above average in every category I listed. That is usually the formula that Honda prescribed for their bikes back in the 1990's.

I have never ridden a Blackbird, but I can use my VFR750 as an example. I have handlebar risers and lowered pegs installed. The riding position is now about the same as a stock FJ. There is about 50lbs less weight and down about 25hp. I love the bike as the ride is very much like a miniature FJ with a snarl.


Fred

[FJ1200W]

Thanks Fred -
I had a 2001 XX in Titanium and flat out loved it.
Normal mods - lower footpegs, handlebar risers. Aftermarket cans and a PCIII. Changed the fuel pressure regulator and a few other things, they are awesome machines.
No comparison in power to the FJ, the XX has a warp drive one must experience to believe.
Handling, I found it excellent for what the bike was - and comfort, it was not bad, all day comfy, no worries.
Why did I sell it?
I decided I valued my life.
That bike would cruise comfortably at well over a hundred, would leap to a buck fifty in seconds.
A hundred literally felt like 55.
I like to ride fast and if I had not sold it, I doubted I would last -
I had never been able to break 100 in the 1/8 mile. I did on my 1st pass on the XX. It's that quick and fast, even with my hand on the bars.
Dislikes: More difficult to work on than the FJ, but not asinine in terms of engineering.
If the FJ is a P51 fighter, the XX is exactly what it is - the Blackbird.
Apples and oranges.
Both worthy of owning.

[Ted Schefelbein]

The decade between development of the two bikes is more telling than any comparison of the bikes themselves. Motorcycles of all stripes advanced rapidly in handling, output, and competitive use during that time.
The real story is not that the blackbird is a superb machine. It is. But, this is not the first time an FJ, an older design, has been compared to it. That, is the interesting part of the story.
For me, the blackbird leans far harder into the realm of "sport". The FJ, older bike that it is, is superbly balanced on the razor edge that is the border between "sport" and "touring".
Any engineer will let you know, in no uncertain terms, it is easier to design and build to one standard, rather then two.
The FJ was built to both.

Ted

[Millietant]

Must say, I agree with Ted on a lot of this - to be comparing a FJ and a XX is real testament to the strength of the original FJ design. There's at least 10 years of development between the two bikes, from a period when bikes moved forward an astronimocal amount.

I think though that you might be underestimating the engine development issues Chris - I believe the XX made +160 RWHP as stock and that's a figure that full-race FJ's, with a lot of work (and money spent) are making, not street, reliable, quiet one's. But then again, who needs +160 BHP in a street bike - with the FJ, it's the driveability and torque delivery of the engine that gives it its appeal.

My friends with modern (under 2 years old) Italian, German and Japanese big capacity "torquey" twins are still shocked by the way my FJ does overtakes with just a twist of the wrist in top gear from 60mph 

[T Legg]

They had 141 rwhp  and weighed about the same as an fj1100. I think the aerodynamics were supposed to help achieve their top speed as well .

[Ted Schefelbein]

Most of us are old enough to realize top speed is irrelevant. But, getting off at the end of 500 miles, without the assistance of a chiropractor, of a bike you are rider, caretaker, and mechanic all rolled into one is bigly satisfying.
Much easier to do on an FJ. Much easier.

Ted

[fj1289]

Dean - I'm not delusional enough (yet!) to think you'd easily match the newer "hyper bikes" HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.

[Waiex191]

The fastest bike I've ever ridden was a ZX11, back in the mid 90s.  It was awesome compared to my FJ with respect to power. I thought about selling my FJ back then and buying that ZX11 when my buddy sold it. I'm glad I didn't.  I really don't need all the performance my FJ offers and it is such a good bike for sport, long distance, or just running errands and commuting.

[Millietant]

Dean - I'm not delusional enough (yet!) to think you'd easily match the newer "hyper bikes" HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.

Now you've got me thinking Chris....and dreaming......about the next upgrades for my FJ.....

More power with least expense, don't want pod filters, don't want it overly loud (keeping my Remus exhaust) - how easy ??

[Millietant]

The fastest bike I've ever ridden was a ZX11, back in the mid 90s.  It was awesome compared to my FJ with respect to power. I thought about selling my FJ back then and buying that ZX11 when my buddy sold it. I'm glad I didn't.  I really don't need all the performance my FJ offers and it is such a good bike for sport, long distance, or just running errands and commuting.

The friend I've ridden with the most on the roads over the last 45 years, had a ZZR 1100 back in the early 1990's. He came touring on it with us and we rode every Sunday around the best riding routes in the UK (Pennines and Lake District). He loved the top end rush at over 140mph, but ended up moving to a FJ after swapping bikes on tour, and then onto a ST 1100, before a Fireblade (over the space of 2 years).

The ZZR just didn't have the comfort he was looking for (too long a reach to the bars), luggage systems made it unbelievably wide and he felt the throttle response just wasn't good enough at the normal speeds and RPM's we ran on the roads for 99% of the time.

To this day he still has a soft spot for the top end hit of the big Kawasaki's and I can understand and appreciate that, just like I love the razor sharp handling of my Aprilia (vs the FJ), but for all round use the FJ still takes some beating and it's my favourite bike to ride good2:

[Motofun]

A friend of mine had Blackbird that he put some money into mostly for suspension.  That was one sweet motorcycle.  I'm very used to the sporting position and actually prefer it for anything under 300 miles.  I think it would easily out perform a FJ in most aspects for daily riding, The biggest problem would be keeping your license intact as 100 mph seemed normal.  Kind of the same reason I parked my R1, just couldn't see why going 125 mph, just to get to work in the morning was a good idea!   

[aviationfred]

Dean - I'm not delusional enough (yet!) to think you'd easily match the newer "hyper bikes" HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.

Now you've got me thinking Chris....and dreaming......about the next upgrades for my FJ.....

More power with least expense, don't want pod filters, don't want it overly loud (keeping my Remus exhaust) - how easy ??

I built my FJ1300 (1297cc) with an eye for reliability and daily use. I think the key was .... No fiddling with the cam timing, and I kept the CV carbs.
I had 14,000 trouble free miles on it.

[giantkiller]

Fastest bike I've owned. Was my 87 frz1000..I had it built. By RES. Out of Arlington Texas if I remember right. Everything that could be done. Even lightened the crank. Flat slides, cams. Only dynoed at 189hp. But holyshit. I slid the forks up in the triples. So it was  more nose down.  It would lift the  front tire aout an inch  and drive you forward with the  back tire smoking.  That was a fun bike. I had stripped everything unnecessary off of it too. Took it past 187mph.
Was still pulling hard. But I just wanted to go past 185.
That's the one I died on. Supposedly less than 35mph. Still have that motor and the human race teams fzr750r. Going to stuff it in there someday.