Have to Give Up

[AppleJack]

Hello All
I've given up trying to make this bike run again.  RPM went through the carbs but I spent months trying to figure out no spark condition, to no avail. Bike is complete with 9,000 miles on odometer but will not run.  Local motorcycle shop spent several weeks trying to troubleshoot the problem and nothing.  Some one make me an offer?
What I really would like to do, is somehow get it to California to the guys at RPM so someone there could troubleshoot it for me.  Not sure that's practical however. 

I'm in S Carolina and have exhausted all things I can think of. 

Thanks for all your help in the past, but I don't know what else to do
Jon

[FJ_Hooligan]

Is there a thread about what all you have done?  If not then post a summary of your effort so others can review it. 

Hopefully someone will have an idea that you haven't tried

[red]

Hello All
I've given up trying to make this bike run again.  RPM went through the carbs but I spent months trying to figure out no spark condition, to no avail. Bike is complete with 9,000 miles on odometer but will not run.  Local motorcycle shop spent several weeks trying to troubleshoot the problem and nothing.  Some one make me an offer?  What I really would like to do, is somehow get it to California to the guys at RPM so someone there could troubleshoot it for me.  Not sure that's practical however.  I'm in S Carolina and have exhausted all things I can think of.  Thanks for all your help in the past, but I don't know what else to do
Jon

Jon,

Here is the best help I can offer, from UT to SC:  There is a bare minimum of electrical items that the FJ engine must have, to run.  With thanks to RPM et al, I have attached a copy of their wiring diagram for the "minimum" of items needed.  This diagram cuts out all the extra stuff needed by a bike, it just runs the engine.  I would disconnect any bike wiring that is in the way, and "hotwire" the circuit with outside wiring to complete the diagram.  I am hopeful that any failed part of the "minimum" diagram will become more obvious.  Then you can measure the Voltages at terminals to learn what should be hot, and when.  Some "signals" will be AC (pulsed DC) but a Voltmeter can read AC or DC.  Just do not try to measure the high voltage in the wires to the spark plugs.  Once you get all of that stuff going, you can switch back to the bike wiring, and see if any voltages are missing.  No shop can do this troubleshooting better than you.  The Factory Service Manual (FSM) will have Ohmmeter readings for things like the coils, which the Voltmeter can also measure for you.

You're gonna be the local Ace on this stuff, just hang tough here.      
.

[mtc]

what is it? miles and condition?
did you swap igniters?

part it out, they are worth little intact even lookers and runners

they are a heap if it don't run

[ribbert]

... Local motorcycle shop spent several weeks trying to troubleshoot the problem and nothing. 

I'm highly suspicious of this. On a scale of automotive complexity, FJ's are down the lawn mower end. One of the many skills proper mechanics have is orderly diagnostics, it doesn't matter what the machine is, the process is the same. In 50 years I have never seen a bike or car pushed into the corner of mechanics shop and abandoned because they couldn't get it to run.

Are you assuming it's lack of spark because the carbies have been overhauled therefore it can' t be fuel, or do you actually know there's no spark and if so, how did you determine that?

The low mileage on the bike in itself eliminates the likelihood of many potential culprits.

There is no need to ship it across the country, any half arsed mechanic should have enough trouble shooting skills and experience to home in on the problem and the good news is, on an FJ there is nothing expensive to buy or fit.

Whatever the problem is, it's can't be major if it's spark or fuel related on an FJ.

Find a better mechanic, fix it and ride it.

Noel

[RPM - Robert]

One solution if you would like to get it out to us is a company named haulbikes.com we have used and have customers who have used them on several occasions. They regularly have sales that can ship coast to coast for around $500. We could get it running and then you can fly out and have a cross country trip on your FJ or simply use haulbikes to ship it back.

[red]

Jon,

If the starter cranks the engine, that's a good start (pardon the pun).  While the engine is cranking, spray some ether (elaborately known as "starting fluid") from an aerosol can into the air filter.  Try it sparingly at first, but you can get more generous while the engine cranks.  If you get a (very brief) engine start, then STOP with the ether.  That brief start means that you have a fuel problem.  If it does not try to start with the ether, then you have an electrical problem.  RPM can tell you what those small boxes (on their diagram) really are.  I had all that information here once, but I lost it somehow when I had a motherboard crash.  That electrical box stuff is really much simpler than it may look.  Try the ether first.

Hang tough.  Keep us posted.
.

[ribbert]

Jon,

....While the engine is cranking, spray some ether (elaborately known as "starting fluid") from an aerosol can into the air filter....

Red, don't you need to spray that directly into the carbies, or at the very least, the air box with the element removed? Also, if the engine's cold, wouldn't you need a fairly decent slug of it so, as a highly evaporative mist, it won't condensate on the cold engine parts before it reaches the combustion chamber?


On a light note, for those who haven't seen it before, this is the most common brand of starting fluid in Australia, it's carried by all the major auto shops and hardware stores, it is not photoshopped.



Noel

[big r]

Ether is to dry. I have used WD40 as a starting fluid. Works great and then also lubricates at the same time

[red]

Ether in the airbox (filter or no) has no place to go except where it needs to go.  I have started my FJ after a long winters' nap by spraying ether into the airbox inlet, with no problems.  Excessive ether as a liquid can wash the oil from the cylinder walls (bad news!), so just use enough vapor to make things happen.  I would not spray ether into the carb inlets, because the vapor will do the job safely.

WD-40 is kerosene, and little else.  The oily nature of the stuff may be better for a longer run, but again, we just need to see if the engine will fire up, and not try to be running the engine on kerosene.  WD-40 is not something I would recommend, but it's not my call, there.
.

[AppleJack]

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5013;sa=showPosts

[AppleJack]

The owner of the shop I took it to claims 25 years experience troubleshooting motorcycle issues.  He stated that signal tracing is fine up to the TCI module, but I had bought a replacement that didn't change anything.  Chuck, the shop owner, didn't know that I had done that, so he went on the web and got another TCI module.  Still no spark.

At that point I got another wiring harness, and tried that.  No spark after that too.  And I was out of ideas/money...

[T Legg]

I had a no spark problem with one of my 84 fj1100's two weeks ago. The starter would turn the engine over but no spark. I checked for spark first with my timing light and then again with a spark plug that was know to be good laid against the head. The fact that the starter worked when in neutral showed that the kill switch and the neutral switch were working. The fact that when the kickstand was up and the bike was in gear with the clutch engaged the starter worked but the starter stopped working when the kickstand was down proved the kickstand switch and kickstand relay were operating correctly. I then checked the voltage at the r/w wire at the ignition coils and the tci unit and 11.8 volts was present at both. I then ohmed out both sides of each ignition coil and the plug wires and they were normal. I ohmed out the pickup coils next. the book said they should be 120 ohms but they were both 162 ohms. Luckily I have two 84 fj's so I ohmed the pickup coils of my perfectly running fj and they also measured 162 ohms. This made me suspect a bad tci so I removed the tci from the fj with no sparks and installed it on my perfectly running fj and the tci worked fine eliminating my tci as the problem. Then I looked at the rev limiter. It is a PC board located in the instrument cluster behind the fuel gauge and grounds the y/b wire from the tci. I ohmed it to ground and got no continuity but to be sure I disconnected the plug to the instrument cluster removing the rev limiter and any problems caused by a bad tachometer from the circuit and still no spark. Finally I removed the trigger coil assembly from the fj with no spark and installed it on the perfectly running fj and it ran fine. I turned to my eleven year old niece who had been sitting nearby advising me through the whole process and told her that I had tested every part and I didn't know what to test next. I reinstalled the trigger coil assembly on the fj with no spark and it started. The worst electrical repair is one in which you don't find a smoking gun. I am assuming I had a poor connection where the trigger coils plugged into the tci. I cleaned them up and it has been running well for several hundred miles so far. Time will tell.

[ribbert]

I have started my FJ after a long winters' nap by spraying ether into the airbox inlet, with no problems.  Excessive ether as a liquid can wash the oil from the cylinder walls (bad news!)

Well, firstly Red, if there was a bike on this forum I would bet the house on being in a good state of tune it would be yours. A seasonal nap is not very long in my world, are you sure it wouldn't have started anyway? Even a freshly built, never before started engine will burst into life after a just a few cranks if you fill the bowls, why do you need starter fluid after just a Winter break? You know the story....

 

What does time have to do with any of that?, particularly if you have a prime function on your fuel tap or a fuel pump.

Fuel sucked in while cranking will wash more oil off the cylinder walls than a spray of ether, especially if sprayed on the outside of the filter element, it can't reach the cylinder in liquid form. Even if it did, it doesn't matter, remember how often we used to flood our carby cars?

I am always amused by the surprise expressed here when an engine fires up after a period of storage, be it months, years or decades. Me, I'd be surprised if it didn't, assuming it was running when parked up. Assuming good fuel, nothing else deteriorates by time alone. Some things can deteriorate in carbies but usually not enough to stop it at least starting.

I have for much of my working life had a professional speciality niche that involves pre war vehicles (mostly cars, but some bikes) that are at least 80 years old and many nearer 100. I have engines and cars myself that are over 90. I have started many an engine that has not run for 70, 80, 90 years, on a couple of occasions, more. I had these 93 yo items in for restoration, typical 20's era fuel and spark, these are from an Austin 7. The photo is for Pat.



Red, we'll have to agree to disagree on how best to use starter fluid, but that's OK, we can do that.

Noel

[AppleJack]

FJ Hooligan:
I did find the previous discussion and posted the link for you...