Slow crank, bike cut out, all 3 needles on clocks bouncing SOLVED!!

[Josh.vesey]

Hi folks picked up my 3cv today.
Rode 50  miles home and during the ride i notice all three needles on the clocks were bouncing. Which irritated me somewhat while i was on the motorway.
Pulled over for fuel, filled up and cranked the engine, and it was slow to turn over and took a few cranks. But started so i carried on. Thinking maybe it maybe the battery needed a good charge. Revved the engine to see if headlight picks up, which it does so alternator is fine.
Pulled off the motorway near my house, pulled up at the lights, and as i set off i acelerated up to 30 and the bike just cut out. Nothing. Dead. Turn the starter. Nothing.
Inspected the sidestand switch and there seems to be some tape around the wire coming off it so wiggled it a bit.
Then cranked the engine. It cranked this time but very slowly, until it got that slow it would crank at all, like a flat battery.
Managed to bump start it and it bumped fine so rode it home.
Messaged the guy when i got home and he said it was a new battery last year and has been kept on optimate.
Do you think it has something to do with that sidestand switch wire or a bad ground from the battery? Do you think the clocks are an unrelated issue? Seeing as its not one needle but all three makes me wonder.
Any advice would be much apreciated. As you can imagine, not the best first experiance with my fj and is a bit upsetting.

[FJmonkey]

Welcome Josh. The speedo is not electrical so if it bounces the damping fluid is gone and or it is on its way out. Mine bounces on my '89 and the one on my '86 bounced, then bounced and hollered like a scalded cat. I made a speedo for an '84 fit. The '89 has a cheap ($40) digital GPS speedo. The tach is likely an electrical ground problem. Fuel gauge bounces when the damping fluid leaks/dries up. My phone covers my fuel gauge and I have always used the miles ridden on my trip meter to plan for fuel. On the left side under the side cover is a reddish connector from the alt. It tends to melt from over charging. Pull it apart, it may look good on the outside.

Looks good eh?
 

The inside

[aviationfred]

I had a similar issue with the starter being real slow to turn the engine after a brief stop. Then it just quit altogether. The culprit ended up being the starter solenoid. Even if the battery is almost dead. You should hear that solenoid click loudly when you push the start button.


Fred

[Josh.vesey]

Thanks guys really apreciate the help. I will look at these when i get home from work. I wonder why the bike completley cut out on me then?

[Josh.vesey]

Come to think it it i didnt hear the solenoid clicking

[Josh.vesey]

Looked at the red co ector this morning. Looks fine. Not melted.

[Josh.vesey]

I did notive the negetive on the battery terminal was not completly tight. It wasnt loose that you can ratle the wires but you could turn them. I will have a play later

[balky1]

You have some good ideas yourself along with the guys that chimed in. You probably found the reason it cut out - that side stand wire. Check it thoroughly.
As for the battery minus - check the other end where it connects to the chasis, too. As for starter, I have FJ 1100 and often a slow crank when hot. This was attributed to two-brush set-up in the starter (correct me someone if I'm wrong) - so maybe some previous owner put older style starter on it or even your brushes need replacing. First of all, check the battery. I had some that lasted less than a year.

[Josh.vesey]

Will an xjr1300 starter be better? If it is that.

[red]

Josh,

As for the battery terminals, you want to dis-assemble and clean all of the mating surfaces, at each end of each cable.  A small wire "toothbrush" is good for that job.  Auto parts stores should have them, or maybe a good hardware store.  Bouncing gauges and poor starting can all be due to dirty battery cable connections (at each end). 

You can install a temporary jumper for the side-stand switch connector, for testing purposes, but do not neglect to repair that problem, whether the wiring or the switch is bad.  The side-stand switch is a good safety feature to have, when it works properly.

The speedometer is mechanical.  Take the top end of the cable loose, pull out the core, and set it aside.  Any sharp bends in the speedometer cable housing can cause the needle to bounce, so work that part to be as straight as possible (gentle bends only).  A "neat" appearance is not what you want there; you want a reliable speedometer.  Lubricate the cable core generously with a lightweight grease (not lithium), then replace the cable core.  If the cable core is damaged, just replace the entire speedometer cable.  They are not expensive.

[simi_ed]

Will an xjr1300 starter be better? If it is that.

Probably not.  I'd bet that the loose connection at the battery is the source of your starting issue. I suspect you found the 'run' issue with the side stand switch.
My FJ has always been slow cranking, even after replacing most of the moving parts, adding the XJR starter, cleaning connections, LiFePo battery, etc. I finally reached my personal breaking point after getting hung out to dry at an intersection with a motor that wouldn't crank and I needed the cars to yield so I could paddle off to the side so I could get my bike to run. Hot starts? Nope, not possible! 
Sooooo ... I installed a 24v starter system!  PITA to be sure, but this FJ cranks at almost 900 rpm -- for about 2 revolutions before it is running  24v_FJ_starter (when the choke is on!  I intentionally left it off to demo the starter).
It is an involved installation, with 3-4 relays, 2 LiFePo batteries, a 2nd starter solenoid and a bit of wiring.  But it starts like no other FJ!  Hot, cold, bad gas, when it occasionally tries to kick back--nothing matters!  Someone actually mentioned it might bend a rod if it tries to kick back with the starter active.  All I know is I NEVER have starting issue any longer! 
If there is interest I can document this. 

[Pat Conlon]

......If there is interest I can document this.  

Oh hell yes!
For folks who have higher compression Wiseco aftermarket pistons, or big block engines, this option would be benificial.

I agree that Josh's problems lay elsewhere. Weak battery, bad connections, gummed up starter switch, possibly new brushes on the starter.....along with that pesky side stand switch.

Josh, follow Red's advice and bypass the sidestand switch.....
The switch is Normally Closed, meaning that when the sidestand is raised up the switch is closed, providing power to the ignition box. When the sidestand is down, it pushes the plunger on the switch and opens the circuit, interrupting the 12v power to the ignition box, killing the engine.
It's easy to put in a temporary jumper to close this circuit.
Don't cut any wires, simply follow the wires on your side stand switch up the left side to the plug. Unplug. Then on the engine side of the plug are 2 male prongs. Take a short piece of wire and crimp on 2 female spade connectors, and plug those spade connectors on to the male prongs. You are jumping the switch circuit, bypassing the sidestand switch. This is easily reversible.
Go for a ride and see if the problem goes away.
Be careful not to ride off with your sidestand down (don't ask)

I have bench tested my side stand switch and it tests out fine, but only to give me problems on the road.
Only by jumping the switch circuit (and the problem went away) did I realize that the switch was the culprit.
If so....order a new switch. They do wear out.

Hope this helps..... Eddie, you rock....

[mr blackstock]

G'day,

On my '85 FJ, when I first bought it and getting it in order, I found it very slow to crank despite fresh battery.  The solution was I bought a 4 brush starter off Randy, threw out the original 2 brush starter, and bugger me!  The starter is strong every time, and solved a lot of the starting issues I was having.  My FJ had a Wiseco kit installed, although I think it was only an extra 15cc, so not enough compression in my case to hamper starting.

Cheers, Gareth

[ribbert]

G'day,

On my '85 FJ, when I first bought it and getting it in order, I found it very slow to crank despite fresh battery.  The solution was I bought a 4 brush starter off Randy, threw out the original 2 brush starter, and bugger me!  The starter is strong every time, and solved a lot of the starting issues I was having.  My FJ had a Wiseco kit installed, although I think it was only an extra 15cc, so not enough compression in my case to hamper starting.

Cheers, Gareth

Yeah, I tend to agree with you Gareth, a good starter in good condition with a good battery should do the job.

I have the later starter (later bike) and while it did the job for many years it just didn't have that happy sound of a healthy starter. Last battery change I bought an AGM unit with the highest CCA I could and I reckon now I could drive it down the street on the starter, it made that much difference.

IMO

Noel

[ribbert]

Sooooo ... I installed a 24v starter system!  PITA to be sure, but this FJ cranks at almost 900 rpm -

Ed, how many miles have you put on the bike since this mod?

I've done a few of these (6V > 12V) and while the starter is fine if the cranking is limited to short bursts, what usually fails is the something mechanical.

The harshness of the mechanical engagement with so much extra grunt loads up components beyond there design limits.

IMO

Noel