Slow crank, bike cut out, all 3 needles on clocks bouncing SOLVED!!

[simi_ed]

Sooooo ... I installed a 24v starter system!  PITA to be sure, but this FJ cranks at almost 900 rpm -

Ed, how many miles have you put on the bike since this mod?

I've done a few of these (6V > 12V) and while the starter is fine if the cranking is limited to short bursts, what usually fails is the something mechanical.

The harshness of the mechanical engagement with so much extra grunt loads up components beyond there design limits.

IMO

Noel

Hi Noel, I have probably put about 3,000 mi & hundreds of starts on this system so far.  I agree that a typical Bendix drive starter (that's what they're called in US) would slam engage due to the 6V solenoid being drive by 12V and cramming the pinion gear into the flywheel.  But as I understand the FJ starter design, it is a sprag type that engages when the motor starts spinning.  I have to say I've never heard any unhappiness from the starter (yet!).  I agree 100% that it is running well outside of design parameters and is only good for short bursts.  So, compression testing is out.  OK!

BTW, these symptoms of slow/poor cranking became really exaggerated when my crankshaft lost about 1/4 of it's mass and the displacement went up to ~1350 AND 10.5:1 compression.  

All these factors have a new master:24V starter takes no prisoners  

[Josh.vesey]

Right. Ive had the side stand switch wire off. There bare wire showing in 3 places and a bit thats been soldered together. All under insulation tape. It seems that water has penetrated tgr tape do was damp unddrneath. Aswell as this the various connectors ive took apart have green on them.  So ive bought a new battery, going to oresdr a new side stand switch and im going to clean all elctrcal connections and see how we go.

[Pat Conlon]

Good deal Josh, remember all that has to happen is to have that sidestand circuit open up (lose continuity) somewhere, anywhere......and you're stopped.

Keep at it....PO's dodgy wiring is annoying.

[ribbert]

......i notice all three needles on the clocks were bouncing. Which irritated me somewhat while i was on the motorway.

Not as much as this guy.....

https://youtu.be/bjFddxU5INY

Noel

[Josh.vesey]

Right. Ive gound lots of electrical connectio s that are green, including the wire for the instrument panel. Ive took them all apart and cleaned them. Temporarilly joined the sidestand switch wires together and put a new battery on. Cranks fine, and the battery is charging at 14.7 v. So so far so good. Glad i took the bike apart because ive noticed the choke cable is starting to fray. Going to give it a test ride in the morning. Thanks fornthe help guys. Very very much apreciated!!!!

[Josh.vesey]

Bikes still cutting out lol. So im gunna take the switch gear off and check the kill switch and the wiring for the ignition.

[red]

Bikes still cutting out lol. So im gunna take the switch gear off and check the kill switch and the wiring for the ignition.

Josh,

I might just hot-wire the ignition for a test ride, and see if there really is an electrical problem.  Run a can of Seafoam (or other good fuel system cleaner) through two tanks of gasoline, and see if the carbs were causing the problem.  With an electrical fault, sure the engine would cut out, but there should be some back-firing when the ignition gets together again.  No back-firing would make a fuel problem more likely than a failure of the ignition system.

[Josh.vesey]

Ive found more green connections behind the front fairing. Its mainly tge red wire from the clock. I did find it strange this morning that the clock had changed time itself. Looking at the wiring diagram , this red wire on the diagram is also connected to main switch, main 30amp fuse, starter relay and reg rec.

[Josh.vesey]

Come to think of it. When i pull off you can hear the bike 'searching'. If you spin the clutch a bit its ok. Its idling around 800rpm which i think is a little slow. I wonder if when i change gear and the revs drop, it doest like it? Im gunna clean everything. Probaby have the carbs off and inspect those, then set the idle speed at 1000rpm.the valves have been checked as its had new stem seals and rings and gaskets etc.

[Josh.vesey]

Right ive cleaned up those horrible connections on the wiring and have nice low resistance of 01.2 all the way from the clock right through to the main fuse across the bike. All the horrible green stuff has gone. So im going to reassemble her and see how she runs. Turn the idle up and put some good fuel system cleaner through as well. Hopefully I've cracked. My god i never imagined i would have to do this after buying a really tidy bike. I just wanna ride man!!! Thanks for your help folks :-)

[aj52]

......If there is interest I can document this. 

Hi Ed

i'm also interested in the 24v starter.

Hannes

[simi_ed]

......If there is interest I can document this.  

Hi Ed

i'm also interested in the 24v starter.

Hannes

Oh, the pressure ...  OK, I need to redraw the schematic so it makes sense to me, then Pat & I will work out the details. I'll also make up the parts list, round up some of the pix from the build. Unfortunately I can't go back & take pix now, I'm still mobility limited at present.
Stand by!

Ed

[Josh.vesey]

Right. Put the bike together and didnt crank. So tried the rest of the electrics. The left hand indicator wasnt flashing, but then all of a sudden started to flash. When it was flashing the engine would crank and fire. So i had to strip the bike down again.

There is a relay at the front of the bike so i took the cover off and it had corrosion on the middle terminal which is the blue and white wire terminal. Said blue and white wire goes to starter switch, igniter unit and starter relay. And also splits to clutch switch.
So im going to order a new relay. Tearing my hair out lol.

[Josh.vesey]

After cleaning wires and checking all switches for continuity. Check for voltage on ignition etc. It was all checking out.
The bike wasnt turning over at all. I took the main relay cover of and inspected it.
While holding the starter button i tapped the relay with a screwdriver and boom, started cranking.
So i turned off the ignition and did it again. Held down the starter button. With no response, but tapped the relay again and boom started turning over.
We have tested the wires going in and out of the relay and they were all checking out fine.
Its the relay and the connections on the board itself that are at fault. Got a new one coming in the post. Just in time for the rally on friday! Haha. Talk about cutting it fine. Also. The relay i have ordered ia off a virago 125.
The numbers are exactly the same. Ive noticed the ones for the fj are getting hard to come by round here.

[balky1]

......i notice all three needles on the clocks were bouncing. Which irritated me somewhat while i was on the motorway.

Not as much as this guy.....

https://youtu.be/bjFddxU5INY

Noel

Almost like the speedo on my FJ.