Front Axle Frustration

[Tuneforkfreak]

WTF is that supposed to mean?  Can you translate that into English? 

I was just saying that when I decided to jump into doing my forks I left the key in the ignition like an idiot and later while working in that area I bent the key over in the ignition on accident. Learn from me, remove the key.

[Yamahammer1200]

Thanks, I will take that advice any day. Usually I can't find my key when working on the bike because it's still in the seat/helmet lock!
I am replacing the fork oil with Bel-Ray 10W, and installing Progressive Suspension springs.
At that time, the steering head bearings will be dealt with.
And a rear brake m/c rebuild.
And a new throttle.
The funny thing is, I enjoy doing these necessary things.
You ride with a bigger smile after a repair or upgrade.

[chiz]

Funny reply when I asked bike shop owner about Belray fork oil. His reply was "good for about one lap around the track"  never used the product since then.
Lez
'

[Tuneforkfreak]

Funny reply when I asked bike shop owner about Belray fork oil. His reply was "good for about one lap around the track"  never used the product since then.
Lez
'

I used Maxima oil in my forks, not because I like that brand but because it was less expensive and I liked the bottle as it had a nice handle molded into it. That and it had enough oil in one bottle to do both forks. I really wanted to try the 10 wt and see if it was to my liking, I had it in my mind I might be draining it if I didn't care for it so price was a factor. So far I'm digging it but it's just a tad rigid. I have my springs loaded to the stiffest setting so I'm going to drop a notch and try that. One thing I noticed right off the bat is that after I fixed the forks I'm feeling the rear needing adjustment now, never felt that before.

[Yamahammer1200]

Removed fork legs, drained exactly 400 ml of oil from left and right. 
Springs are progressively wound. Normal?  Haynes manual not very clear.
Oil kind of grey, glad I am replacing it, Mark Olson, thanks for the kick in the pants about maintenance.
I weigh 210 lbs soaking wet, will 120-130 mm from top of tube work for fork oil level?
Next question, how do I remove and retorque crown nuts on yoke so I can inspect and lube steering head bearings?

[Mark Olson]

Removed fork legs, drained exactly 400 ml of oil from left and right. 
Springs are progressively wound. Normal?  Haynes manual not very clear.
Oil kind of grey, glad I am replacing it, Mark Olson, thanks for the kick in the pants about maintenance.
I weigh 210 lbs soaking wet, will 120-130 mm from top of tube work for fork oil level?
Next question, how do I remove and retorque crown nuts on yoke so I can inspect and lube steering head bearings?

Hey Mike, Your springs are the original factory wanna be progressives.
oil level is a personal preference to be experimented with as well as weight of oil .
for your weight I would recommend 15w fork oil and 130mm from the top of fork .
set preload to middle and try that out.
If you want a softer ride , use a lower oil level of 150mm. with 10w fork oil.

on the "yoke" known as the triple tree , you can use slip joint pliers to loosen the nuts so you can remove it and grease the brgs. Try to save the locking washer if you can.
there is a tool for setting the nut. But you can tighten the nut your self with a little care.
get the front wheel off the ground ... centerstand and some weight on the tail will work.  Now rotate the handle bars from full lock right with one push and it should rotate all the way left and bounce back to center . If it comes all the way back to right side, tighten the nut more... If not far enough left , loosen the nut.  you get the idea.

[ribbert]

.....get the front wheel off the ground ... centerstand and some weight on the tail will work.  Now rotate the handle bars from full lock right with one push and it should rotate all the way left and bounce back to center . If it comes all the way back to right side, tighten the nut more... If not far enough left , loosen the nut.  you get the idea.

There is a universal method for tightening tapered roller bearings, regardless of the application. I don't know who originally introduced the above method to the forum but it has too many variables to be accurate (and you can bet Randy doesn't do it that way)

Ask "Cutter Bill" he knows how to do it. The only thing I would add to his description, is "tighten, then back off" rather than just tighten.

Noel

[Mark Olson]

.....get the front wheel off the ground ... centerstand and some weight on the tail will work.  Now rotate the handle bars from full lock right with one push and it should rotate all the way left and bounce back to center . If it comes all the way back to right side, tighten the nut more... If not far enough left , loosen the nut.  you get the idea.

There is a universal method for tightening tapered roller bearings, regardless of the application. I don't know who originally introduced the above method to the forum but it has too many variables to be accurate (and you can bet Randy doesn't do it that way)

Ask "Cutter Bill" he knows how to do it. The only thing I would add to his description, is "tighten, then back off" rather than just tighten.

Noel

Well after you use the above method , Ride over to RPM and have Randy check it with the ring nut torque tool he has at the shop. That should remove all doubt if it is set correctly.
Noel is correct in the tighten up first to set the load then back off and snug it up.  Kinda just like wheel brgs on a car.

The bounce back method has been used on motorcycles since god was a boy......  Is it perfect ? no , but it is close enough.

[racerrad8]

I weigh 210 lbs soaking wet, will 120-130 mm from top of tube work for fork oil level?

Did you measure the free length of the springs?

120-130 is closing up the air gap quite a bit and will definitely stiffen the ride. When I build forks here, and add the RPM components I set them all at 6" (152mm). Yamaha recommends, depending on the year, 142-169mm

Next question, how do I remove and retorque crown nuts on yoke so I can inspect and lube steering head bearings?

Here is the proper tool for the job, Yamaha Steering Stem Wrench. It allow the use of the torque wrench as per the GYSM.

Randy - RPM

[Yamahammer1200]

The stock springs were within spec, according to the manual.
The Progressive Suspension springs are 1 inch shorter than stock. Their instructions say no spacer required, so
I put them in after checking if they were correct for the FJ (#11-1126).
Robert suggested adding spacers to make up the difference.  I will add them if needed.
I added 395 ml of oil to each leg- Haynes manual
The bearings and races look good, just lacked grease.  The bottom bearing was bone dry.
My local shop is letting me borrow their wrench for the stem nut.

[Yamahammer1200]

Ok.  The front end was reassembled.
The stem nut was torqued to 36 ft. Lbs, then I relaxed the nut, and retorqued it to 2.2. ft. lbs.
Wobble problem is still there!
1- new tire
2- fresh fork oil
3- new fork springs
4- regreased steering head and wheel bearings
This condition emerged slowly over the last 1500 miles and now head shakes at low speeds so much, I don't want to ride it.
My gut tells me it's the steering head bearing, gonna retorque em.  This time on center stand with the tire touching pavement.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[FJ_Hooligan]

This may not help, but I never trusted the torque then re-torque technique.  I use a pair of channel lock pliars to run it down and take out all the slop, then I loosen slightly and snug the nut back down as I twist the bars to check for binding.  Just like I used to do with the old fashioned front wheel bearings.

[a.graham52]

Just for experiments sake, tight the steering head more and but not enough to cause it to bind. Then take it for a test. Then u will know for sure.

[Tuneforkfreak]

Get on the bike push with your feet and jam the front brakes on, do you feel slop in the head or anything loose? If that stem is not wobbling around but the bike turns freely I'd be taking a good look at that new tire and make sure it didn't throw a weight or something to put it out of balance. You could have started with the wobble from the steering and fixed it only to have it coming from a different location now after you changed other things. Just tossing ideas.

[ribbert]

My gut tells me it's the steering head bearing, gonna retorque em.  This time on center stand with the tire touching pavement.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't do it with the weight of the bike on the front wheel, it will give you an incorrect reading.

I never trusted the torque then re-torque technique.  I use a pair of channel lock pliars to run it down and take out all the slop, then I loosen slightly and snug the nut back down as I twist the bars to check for binding.  Just like I used to do with the old fashioned front wheel bearings.

I endorse what Hooli said. This is one job that I reckon is better down by feel than by numbers (torque wrench) It is how I was taught to do it (in trade school) and I've never found a case for doing it any differently, but it's only hair splitting, if you have torqued it to spec I doubt it is the cause of the problem unless you have missed it by a mile. I can feel a bit excessive play in mine on full lock turns but even that is not enough to cause problems under normal riding conditions.

One of the problems of on-line diagnosis is terminology. You describe it as both "low speed wobble" and "headshake" These are two different things to me.

In my experience, low speed wobble is usually wheel related as the suspension is not working hard enough to set up oscillations that cause shaking and vibrations , the wheel being the only component with enough mass and inertia at low speed to be felt through the bike.

Headshake at low speed so bad you won't ride it suggests something so bad that it should be obvious. If the tyre is new (and the bead is properly seated) and the rim is true and not buckled, I would next check for excessive freeplay or something not tight somewhere, from the handlebars to the front wheel bearings. For example, a crook wheel bearing would fit the progressive onset of the problem and if partially collapsed, a wobble.

Fork springs, oil brand, viscosity and level, suspension settings or even headstem bearings, are all unlikely to cause low speed issues for the above reasons.

If you have eliminated the obvious causes, time to consider the unlikely but possible ones, like have you traded problems. Fixed the problem but created another one during assembly. Left something seriously loose.....

If no solution is found, perhaps you could describe in more detail what's happening - actual speed it starts at, where you feel it, can you ride through it, does it change if you apply the front brake, If you apply the front brake several times rapidly while riding does the lever pump up.etc.

Noel