Somebody MUST be smart enough to figure this out

chiz · June 20, 2015, 09:07:21 PM

CLUTCH STILL NOT WORKING......I put an extra spring in the clutch from an fjr1300 not before checking if I had lost the clutch push rod ball somewhere in my ordeal it's still there bolted everything up.
Put braided steel line on lever and slave and bled the lot started bike to see what the clutch was doing... Shifted gears and suddenly realized the clutch is disengaged at ALL times with lever squeezed or not... Backed out bolts on slave almost all the way to a point where slave was not acting on push rod. Started bike clutch is disengaged at all times WTF.

I just break out in cold sweats when I try to visualize what is going on.. To make matters even more
kerfuffleing with only one spring installed the clutch will not disengage properly creeps in gear and slips on acceleration I have removed the clutch basket at least twice any ideas anyone.
Thanks Chiz

fj johnnie · June 20, 2015, 09:22:14 PM

Did you also replace your clutch by any chance? I had similar troubles when I replaced my clutch. I had not followed RPM's instructions properly.

chiz · June 20, 2015, 09:43:33 PM

No it's still the original clutch that I have had out a couple of times and a used FJR1300 spring.

Pat Conlon · June 20, 2015, 10:08:18 PM

With the side cover off, look at your clutch pack, now squeeze the lever. Do you see the pressure plate move in and out? You should.

mark1969 · June 21, 2015, 04:35:11 AM

Yes definitely try the above with clutch cover off. It will tell you loads..

If its disengaged all the time sounds there may be a steel or fibre plate missing. Sounds silly, but worth a check.

Also, it's easy when replacing the spring for the pushrod to creep outwards under pressure from the slave cylinder the other end of it...in reality when screwing the springs back on it should go back to normal, but its worth checking..

Strip it back to where the diaphragm springs are off. Undo the bleed nipple on the slave cyclinder. Reinstall the springs and the bolts holding them and when you tighten these with the slave nipple loose the pushrod should go back to its proper position as well as the slave too. Then tighten the slave bleed nipple and put the clutch cover back on. You may at this point want to bleed the clutch slave again just for good measure..

FJ_Hooligan · June 21, 2015, 08:33:10 AM

When I added a second spring to my clutch, I had the same thing happen. Winds up I didn't align the pressure plate properly and it was not applying any pressure to the plates. Remove it and try again.

mark1969 · June 21, 2015, 08:50:39 AM

Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on June 21, 2015, 08:33:10 AM
When I added a second spring to my clutch, I had the same thing happen. Winds up I didn't align the pressure plate properly and it was not applying any pressure to the plates. Remove it and try again.

Yes, that's what happened with me. I'd forgotten...couldn't get the pressure plate lined up and found the pushrod was stopping me being able to do this. When I released the pressure on the pushrod enabling it to retract (by loosening bleed screw on slave) the pressure plate lined up easily.. before I couldn't get the teeth to engage with each other..

chiz · June 21, 2015, 09:23:00 AM

OK I believe I may have solved some of the problem. After disassembling the clutch and carefully reassembling opening the bleed on spring tightening I still have a clutch that is disengaged I can turn the pressure plate by hand and push the bike while it is in gear, with single spring.... Here is my thinking the FJR1300 pressure plate is different enough to cause this problem and if I switch back to the FJ item the problem will be solved. What do you think?
Chiz

Arnie · June 21, 2015, 09:33:30 AM

The FJ12 clutch spring and the FJR13 clutch spring are the same item with different prices.
The addition of a 2nd spring is not your problem. You have some part(s) of the clutch assembled incorrectly.
Try again.

mark1969 · June 21, 2015, 11:02:29 AM

I don't remember being able to turn the pressure plate once it is engaged with the clutch basket.

There are other more experienced people to help, but it sounds like something isn't located properly, or things aren't back in the correct order.

Some pics if you can post them up might help?

movenon · June 21, 2015, 11:15:31 AM

Quote from: mark1969 on June 21, 2015, 11:02:29 AM
I don't remember being able to turn the pressure plate once it is engaged with the clutch basket.

There are other more experienced people to help, but it sounds like something isn't located properly, or things aren't back in the correct order.

Some pics if you can post them up might help?

You should have 8 fibers and 7 steels in the pack plus the FJR or FJ spring. When you TQ down the FJR spring, the pack should be engaged. If all is correct and the pack is not engaged then I would release the pressure in the clutch slave (open the bleed valve) and see what happens.

Here is a link that might help. It has to do with the clutch mod but might be helpful to read. But count the fibers and steels.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0
George

chiz · June 21, 2015, 11:45:26 AM

OK as far as I can tell the FJR pressure plate does not fit the FJ basket the clutch plate side is different.. Everything back together and back to square one with original problem of a month ago Clutch engages a millimeter off the grip and neutral difficult to find.

mark1969 · June 21, 2015, 12:38:58 PM

I think a complete breakdown of what you are using parts wise would be useful..what is new and what is old, and what is what exactly..no-one knew that you were using an FJR pressure plate until a few posts ago..

Is it an FJ master cylinder? How many clutch plates (fibres and steels) do you have installed? Are they new? Can you measure the stack (all plates together) Have you measured the pushrod? Have you pulled the lever with clutch cover off to see how the stack is moving or IF it is moving..?

Because you are not answering peoples previous questions its difficult to get a grasp of whats going on...the goalposts keep moving so to speak. To be honest I'm assuming you are working on an FJ1200 but it could be any bike..

And people are smart enough as many have worked on these bikes for years, but without clear and consistent and methodical information sharing there isn't much anyone can help with.

movenon · June 21, 2015, 02:17:58 PM

Quote from: chiz on June 21, 2015, 11:45:26 AM
OK as far as I can tell the FJR pressure plate does not fit the FJ basket the clutch plate side is different.. Everything back together and back to square one with original problem of a month ago Clutch engages a millimeter off the grip and neutral difficult to find.

The only part you need is the FJR spring. All the plates, steels, and fibers are FJ. The FJR spring diameter is the same as the FJ's.
Go to the link I gave you and look at the parts diagram. Item 14 is the only part of the FJR that you need everything else is FJ.
George

chiz · June 21, 2015, 09:06:51 PM

I believe my problem may lie with a cheap oriental copy of a Honda 800 master. Its a stock clutch that worked fine until the original 1100 master started to leak. Yamaha Canada has suplied a rebuild kit for the original master I had no idea they were still available. That will go on this week I will see if my suspicions about the Honda copy pans out. The master does not cause the pressure plate to move for the first 1/3 of clutch lever movement which must effect overall travel of push rod?
Chiz

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