ABS line replacement, who here has done it? Any suggestions?

[racerrad8]

Thanks Randy, yea I remember reading that...Horst is in Germany...so shipping would be a bitch.

That looks like a Suzuki wheel...maybe he can advise on the process and what tone ring he used within that wheel.

It might be worth asking...

Randy - RPM

[Pat Conlon]

Horst website no worky...

Lots of Barry's links are broken...

[racerrad8]

Horst website no worky...

Actually; Hier entsteht demnächst eine neue Internetpräsenz

Means...Here is a new website soon

His email is there though; info@hbbike.de

Randy - RPM

[Pat Conlon]

Ok, I have a email into Horst...we shall see...

Thanks Randy

[Capn Ron]

1) We were not able to rotate the ends of the lines to allow the braided sheathing to not have a twist on the kit we received.

The nice thing about the Spiegler, is the ends rotate so you can clock them slightly for a better routing and I was able to turn the lower banjo fitting so that is bolted up well with the blue spots.

Randy - RPM

That's odd...One of my back-and-forth trips to Galfer was because of the clocking.  The lines had undesirable twists in them.  I drove back to Camarillo to see if they had ends that were clocked differently.  He told me to just rotate them!  Did yours look like this one?



By looking at the banjo ends, I didn't imagine they were clockable...never thought of it really...but he just gripped the knurled bit with a pair of pliers and the banjo in an adjustable wrench and turned them.  He went on in great length about how they always use clockable fittings or else you'll get weird twists in the lines.

I just put in a call to them to see if they've changed the fittings, but they're closed for the weekend.

[racerrad8]

That's odd...One of my back-and-forth trips to Galfer was because of the clocking.  The lines had undesirable twists in them.  I drove back to Camarillo to see if they had ends that were clocked differently.  He told me to just rotate them!  Did yours look like this one?



By looking at the banjo ends, I didn't imagine they were clockable...never thought of it really...but he just gripped the knurled bit with a pair of pliers and the banjo in an adjustable wrench and turned them.  He went on in great length about how they always use clockable fittings or else you'll get weird twists in the lines.

Ron, they looked something like that, I have not seen them in some time to know for sure. I do recall looking at the instructions then and again today, and there is nothing about rotating the fittings. The other part of that, I would have a real hard time grabbing a brand new brake line in a pair of pliers and just "turn rotate them".

I have since installed 4-5 sets of Spiegler brake line kits and they provide the tools required to rotate and clock the fitting which will not mar, scratch or damage the fitting. You can see a short video here: http://www.spieglerusa.com/brakes.html

The thing that I find strange is the fact he went into great length to you about rotating the fitting, yet they do not mention it in their instructions.

Things that make you go...hmmmmmm

Randy - RPM

[FJscott]

Hi Ron,

I think if I had your experiences where I felt the ABS saved my bacon I would as you do keep my system in good working order and obviously you do. My green bike has ABS and Traction Control and I have no desire to remove them from that bike however that bikes ABS technology is 22 years advanced. the FJ pump and hoses looks like the head of Medusa, I'm afraid to look at it, something bad will happen. There is a FJ rider on the east coast that complains of;

* leaks
* pulsations in the brake lever even when stopped
*constant battle with air and spongy brakes

essentially instead of a feeling of confidence that he has ABS he feels insecure that it wont work when he needs it or that it compromises his ability to emergency stop.

My reply to his complaints was " fix the fucking thing" he has had a few shops work on it to the tune of hundreds of dollars with no success. he gave up,removed it and upgraded to blue dots, new rotors,HH pads, SS hoses and is happy with his brakes now.

Another friend owns a small bike dealership in Ft. Pierce. He sells Hondas,Kawi's and in the 80's and 90's sold Yamahas. he said he couldn't sell the ABS versions. they had a bad reputation. I don't know if they were getting a bad rap or what.

We all form our own opinions based on our first hand experiences and thru others. If I were looking at $1000 to fix the FJ ABS, for me...I wouldn't. I would take that money and upgrade the suspension and non ABS Brake system upgrades.

with the Moditus epidemic running rampant throuout this forum not once have I heard of a member wanting to put an FJ ABS system into his Non ABS FJ.

again, I am not against ABS, just 22 year old ABS.

It would be fun to have a challenge at the next rally. a side by side 40MPH emergency stop and see which stops in the shortest distance. a Modified non ABS FJ like my bike vs. an ABS model.  

Scott

[Capn Ron]

Ron, they looked something like that, I have not seen them in some time to know for sure. I do recall looking at the instructions then and again today, and there is nothing about rotating the fittings. The other part of that, I would have a real hard time grabbing a brand new brake line in a pair of pliers and just "turn rotate them".

The thing that I find strange is the fact he went into great length to you about rotating the fitting, yet they do not mention it in their instructions.

Randy - RPM

Yeah...agreed.  I never noticed that "clocking" wasn't addressed in the instructions until today mostly because the instructions didn't exist when we were making the kit.  Should definitely be mentioned!  Just knowing they were clockable would have saved me the 80 mile drive and an afternoon I suppose.

On the "Pliers"...I'm with you.  Wouldn't want to scratch up something new.  We used a shop rag in the jaws of a pair of pliers and because of the pattern on the crimp part, only had to apply a very soft grip and the banjo turned just fine.

I do have a question though...now that I have read the instructions...  What the hell is an olive inversor???   

[ribbert]

It would be fun to have a challenge at the next rally. a side by side 40MPH emergency stop and see which stops in the shortest distance. a Modified non ABS FJ like my bike vs. an ABS model.  

Scott

The FJ will out brake even a modern ABS equipped bike but only under ideal conditions and proper application and the likelihood of only needing an emergency stop under those circumstances is about nil.

Modern ABS is truely brilliant and as I have said many times, it is about the only thing I crave a modern bike for.
Noel

[wildfire]

Hi Ron,

I think if I had your experiences where I felt the ABS saved my bacon I would as you do keep my system in good working order and obviously you do. My green bike has ABS and Traction Control and I have no desire to remove them from that bike however that bikes ABS technology is 22 years advanced. the FJ pump and hoses looks like the head of Medusa, I'm afraid to look at it, something bad will happen. There is a FJ rider on the east coast that complains of;

* leaks
* pulsations in the brake lever even when stopped
*constant battle with air and spongy brakes

essentially instead of a feeling of confidence that he has ABS he feels insecure that it wont work when he needs it or that it compromises his ability to emergency stop.

My reply to his complaints was " fix the fucking thing" he has had a few shops work on it to the tune of hundreds of dollars with no success. he gave up,removed it and upgraded to blue dots, new rotors,HH pads, SS hoses and is happy with his brakes now.

Another friend owns a small bike dealership in Ft. Pierce. He sells Hondas,Kawi's and in the 80's and 90's sold Yamahas. he said he couldn't sell the ABS versions. they had a bad reputation. I don't know if they were getting a bad rap or what.

We all form our own opinions based on our first hand experiences and thru others. If I were looking at $1000 to fix the FJ ABS, for me...I wouldn't. I would take that money and upgrade the suspension and non ABS Brake system upgrades.

with the Moditus epidemic running rampant throuout this forum not once have I heard of a member wanting to put an FJ ABS system into his Non ABS FJ.

again, I am not against ABS, just 22 year old ABS.

It would be fun to have a challenge at the next rally. a side by side 40MPH emergency stop and see which stops in the shortest distance. a Modified non ABS FJ like my bike vs. an ABS model.  

Scott

My bike too has ABS and I really would not mind if it did not have ABS as none of the bikes I have had
over the last 30 years had ABS.

Having said that ABS is just like any other part of any vehicles braking system in that it needs
to be maintained.

Leaks etc are due to bad worn out seals, pipes etc and would result in all the issues you mentioned that a Cali rider stated  regardless if ABS was on the bike or not.. Air ona  braking system is not good end of story.

The Haynes manual states that if the bikes ABS system  was to fail the braking system would
function just as any non ABS equipped bike. Easy way to affirm is to disconnect both ABS sensors and see what happens.


As you know ABS is really only there to prevent the wheels from locking up. This can almost be replicated( but not as quickly) the old school way with rapid engagement and disengagement of the brake lever/pedal.

22 year old ABS or modern ABS. Well no question which is better.

Tom

[ribbert]

I do have a question though...now that I have read the instructions...  What the hell is an olive inversor???   

It's the female collar that the olive mates to when joining hoses (for those that like jargon)

Noel

[Capn Ron]

I do have a question though...now that I have read the instructions...  What the hell is an olive inversor???   

It's the female collar that the olive mates to when joining hoses (for those that like jargon)

Noel

Ohhh...that little brass bit?  "Olive inversor"...for lord's sake. 

[Capn Ron]

If I were looking at $1000 to fix the FJ ABS, for me...I wouldn't. I would take that money and upgrade the suspension and non ABS Brake system upgrades.

Couldn't agree more.  Doubt I would have spent much if mine wasn't working just fine.

with the Moditus epidemic running rampant throuout this forum not once have I heard of a member wanting to put an FJ ABS system into his Non ABS FJ.

I can't imagine how intrusive to the FJ AND your wallet that mod would be!     Wheels, sensors, ecu, pump, lines, rear caliper, shock relocation, dash wiring...good lord!  Yeah, no one in their right mind would add it after the fact.  I sure wouldn't.  I guess that's my point.  If all that infrastructure is essentially free with your purchase of an ABS FJ...and operating as well as a well maintained non-ABS setup...even at 22 year old tech...why would you remove it?  Easier bleeding for sure...less spongy lever...yeah, I could see that I guess.  Weight?  I'll give ya that too.   

It would be fun to have a challenge at the next rally. a side by side 40MPH emergency stop and see which stops in the shortest distance. a Modified non ABS FJ like my bike vs. an ABS model.  

Scott

Enough variables in there to make my head spin!  I'll happily watch this from the sidelines.  Actually, I don't think I'd want to watch that...might be too cringe-worthy.  Meet you all back at the fire.   

[Pat Conlon]

Coming from non abs FJ's, I'm looking forward to this bike....I really want to see what the system feels like...
Like braking at the threshold of lockup....how early does the system intervene?
How does the system feel before and after the SS lines are installed? Is it as noticeable as on the non abs brakes?
I wonder what R-1 blue dots will feel like with abs? Worth the upgrade?
If blue dots are installed, I wonder if a 15mm (FJR) m/c or a 14mm m/c will improve the feel or will it cause the system to malfunction? FJR's have abs so maybe a 15mm m/c would not honk up the system (yes, I know, different systems)

So many questions....so many things to experiment with....this will be fun.
I have always heard of the FJ abs second hand...I relish the chance for 1st person experience.
The first thing I'm gonna do is ride the bike to my favorite desert test road... point it straight and step on the brake pedal to get a feel...then move on to the front brakes...and go from there.

No question abs stops cars quicker, this I know...it should be the same for bikes...so the new systems pulse at 64 times per second and the "old" 20 year FJ system pulses at 16 times per second...can I stop faster/shorter on my non abs '92 vs. the '93 w/abs?

[Capn Ron]

Always like your replies Pat...

My take on the ABS "advantage" is only when a wheel is about to lock up.  It will have nothing to do with braking at all other times.  In fact, after reading years worth of "get rid of it" postings, I started wondering if mine even worked.  The rear was easy, but I haven't ever felt the front kick in for 17 years...  Until that ride back from Reno.  I was happy it was working!   

I went through Skip Barber Racing at Laguna Seca several years ago and we spent a good amount of time learning "threshold braking"...  The idea was to modulate the brake pedal...essentially pulsing it with our foot...to bring the tires as close to locking up as possible, then slightly off the pedal and then back on it.  You'd want just a tiny bit of tire slip, but no lockup to get the best grip.  Repeat this pulsing as quickly as you can and you will shorten braking distances.  I'd prefer an ABS system that could pulse at 64 times/second...but I still can't beat 16 pulses/second no matter how much I practice!   

I too wondered about switching components...specifically mis-matching the hydraulic ratios...and if that would mess with the ABS brain in the threshold moment.

Some will say that they like ABS on a bike because it allows you to just focus on keeping the bike upright in a panic stop.  At all other times, you won't even know it's there.