Deal or no deal: Honda Blackbird

[airheadPete]

Let's see, there's a British motorcycle mag I subscribe to, Classic Motorcycle Mechanics, that focuses on '70s & '80 stuff. They mostly do Japanese with some European. Their cut-off is anything over twenty years old. They just did a nice little review of the Blackbird a couple of months ago, and they quite liked it. It should be available on the web, or current issues at Barnes & Noble.

[andyb]

Or you can troll through the Yew Emm Gee (UMG) site.

http://yewemmgee.blogspot.com/

Makes for some comical reading, splashed with a bit of good information.  Makes me wish I had a good 'breakers' near where I lived that specialized in motorcycles...

[Alf]

1998 was the last year for carburetors. I would get a '99 or later edition.

Sorry, Pat, I can´t agree with you. The carbed models have more power, more torque and spend less fuel

Its important to buy a model with the OE cans: the weight actuate like a vibration damper and with aftermarket cans the bike vibrate a lot

[motohorseman]

I've got a 2000 CBR1100XX and it's the quickest and fastest motorcycle I've ever owned. It literally leaves the FJ for dead.

That being said, apples and oranges in comparison.

Brilliant motorcycles - both of them

[Pat Conlon]

1998 was the last year for carburetors. I would get a '99 or later edition.

Sorry, Pat, I can´t agree with you. The carbed models have more power, more torque and spend less fuel...

You would agree as soon as you see what's involved in pulling the carbs for cleaning. Our FJ's are easy.

Alf, I can't comment on the EU, but stateside, things WILL NOT GET better for carbureted bikes when the EPA bumps up the min. ethanol content to 15% (E10 to E15)

The Blackbird's are great bikes, but given the chance to buy a bike, any bike (fill in the blank:_______) with carbs  vs. the same bike with fuel injection.... the choice is obvious.

At least to me....

[Alf]

It literally leaves the FJ for dead.

Yes... in straight line. Sorry, but compared with a basic modded FJ (rims & brakes) is like an oil tanker on tight roads. The only big bike (we´re speaking about big cc. sport touring models) that I´ve tested  on my island roads that leave the FJ for dead is the Hayabusa. What a bike!

[Alf]

You would agree as soon as you see what's involved in pulling the carbs for cleaning. Our FJ's are easy.

Alf, I can't comment on the EU, but stateside, things WILL NOT GET better for carbureted bikes when the EPA bumps up the min. ethanol content to 15% (E10 to E15)

The Blackbird's are great bikes, but given the chance to buy a bike, any bike (fill in the blank:_______) with carbs  vs. the same bike with fuel injection.... the choice is obvious.

At least to me....

I prefer carbs. Well, no. I prefer my FJ 

[JMR]

It literally leaves the FJ for dead.

Yes... in straight line. Sorry, but compared with a basic modded FJ (rims & brakes) is like an oil tanker on tight roads. The only big bike (we´re speaking about big cc. sport touring models) that I´ve tested  on my island roads that leave the FJ for dead is the Hayabusa. What a bike!

You got that right.

[Alf]

You got that right.

Well, I´m in love with my FJ but I´m not blind

And thinking... even my friend Mingo 1TX with only a different brake master leave a CBR XX for dead here in Tenerife

[novaraptor]

ZARF.. ZARF..hmm..Sounds suspiciously like a VURP. Could you use it in a sentence, please? Oh, and don't mind me, I'm just going to be using the computer over here to, uh, uh, check my uh, email and stuff...

[rusjel]

I'm sure what to make of you Alf, your comment about the OEM cans is insightful but comparing an FJs handling favourably to a 'Bird? Sorry can't agree.

An FJ with good suspension and the 17" conversion on the rear is a very nice beast to ride and a better tourer than the 'Bird but it's not even close in the handling dept. Maybe if it was the modified FJ against a 'Bird with saggy stock suspenders, but with the two bikes in good condition the Bird turns better, handles fast changes of direction better and is better under braking and unexpected line changes into corners.

I like how the FJ holds a stable line wherever you put it, that's very reassuring on fast corners, but that's one of only two places I can see it has an edge. The other is on gravel roads, where the raked out geometry, long wheelbase and separated brakes make the FJ a better bet.

I realise this is a subjective thing but I guess I think of me aboard and 'Bird and me on an my FJ on my favourite piece of road, the Oxley Highway going from Port Maquarie to Walcha in New South Wales. For the non aussies among you it's got everything in the way of corners. Fast, slow, bumpy, smooth, up hill, downhill and fast off camber corners over crests. On that bit of road the me riding the FJ wouldn't know which way the me riding the Bird went.

Some comments on linked brakes. Like anything in moto land, anything that is remotely different attracts it's fair share of uninformed opinion and fear. Here's where linked brakes are a nuisance: (very) slow manoeuvres and braking on loose gravelly downhills. It's harder to utilise the back brake for stabillity in the very slow corners and on loose gravel it's better to be able to separate your braking input. That's it. The rest of the time you hardly know the brakes are linked. So if you do a lot of precision slow speed riding or a lot of gravel roads, maybe it's a problem. I do hundreds of miles on unmade roads every year. At first I worried about the linked brakes, now I hardly ever think of them except for the situations above. 

[Mike Ramos]

Good evening rusjel,

Interesting comments re: the Blackbird vs the FJ 1200.

Compared to modern sports bikes, perhaps an R-1 or the CBR et al, how does the Blackbird perform, not so much the power but as it pertains to handling?

How would it perform against the Hayabusa, again as it pertains to handling?

Thank you,

Mike Ramos.

[Flynt]

Compared to modern sports bikes, perhaps an R-1 or the CBR et al, how does the Blackbird perform, not so much the power but as it pertains to handling?

How would it perform against the Hayabusa, again as it pertains to handling?

Somebody's looking for a new toy?  If you want to ride circles around these things in the tight stuff, try a supermoto style bike.  My Hypermotard 1100 is MUCH less powerful than anything you list, even a stock FJ.  But it is so easy to turn fast and so confidence inspiring, I'm routinely leaving the sport bike guys dragging their knees trying to figure out what just happened.  When the straights allow they will blow right on by... but hard to beat a supermoto for tight corners and quick direction changes.

Frank

[Alf]

Rusjel: the Blackbird is ultra-smooth, comfortable and for really fast sport touring is a marvellous piece of kit, but for hard sport riding is like a whale. With the FJ you could take a chance even in a closed track with modern machinery. With the Blackbird not. I´m 2 sgs faster with an MV Augusta in the Los Arcos closed track in Navarra that with a friend FJ (only rims & brakes), and 3 sgs faster with a GSXR 750 K5 but 2 sgs faster with my FJ that with a Blackbird in Las Palmas closed track. It is a super-big and weighted imposing bike with no like for agressive sport riding

Yes, Its perfect for ride all day long even with luggage. And I disagree with you again: its a better solo sport touring that the FJ... apart for that brakes: you can´t rear slide the bike to situate the bike in tight curves, so slow the rhythm is the only solution

And maybe I´m slower with the MV for the more exigent rider ergonomics. But I reckon that the MV have the potential to be the best of the lot

The Hayabusa is in another planet: its like riding a comfortable 600 cc in tight roads, more flickable than my FJ, but without necessity of going more than 5000 rpm and all the time in the same gear. And in a closed track is more composed, more confident and more stable than a R1, only a little more weighted. For the medium rider with only occasional incursions in a closed track it could be faster. The Hayabusa is a camouflaged racer bike. The Blackbird is a camouflaged touring motorbike. 

[rusjel]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Alf. Chasing sports bikes on a tight road course with stock suspenders on the FJ? Hmmmm... I'm a reasonably handy rider but I couldn't stay with moderately well ridden litre sportsbikes at Wanneroo Raceway in Western Australia a few years ago. On a stock FJ I just ran out of clearance, dragging the frame rails while the sportsbike guys had room to move. Also the weight transfer on the FJ made staying with them on rapid changes of direction that much harder. Sure I could round up guys that didn't know what they were doing but the good guys could get away. For mine, the 'Bird is a lot easier to do that sort of stuff on than an FJ!

At Phillip Island which has more fast corners and no chicanes or 'S' bends the FJ is closer because of the good high speed handling, but again a rider of equal ability on a 'Bird would see one off. Sportsbike guys of equal ability are further up the road again. I was only 5 secs faster around PI on my Daytona than the FJ on a fast flowing track like PI, where the lap time done by a good guy on street tires is in the mid 1:50s. ON the much tighter and shorter Wanneroo where the lap time is about a minute the difference is about the same. Which shows up the deficiencies of bad weight transfer, overall weight and clearance. Every flip flop corner or change of direction under brakes the FJ suffers. More than a 'Bird.  

You can still back a Blackbird into a corner (but granted not as easily or effectively), just use only the front lever and you only get one piston on the back brake. On a bike that size that's not the fastest way in all but the slowest corners anyway. It might be that you are a faster rider than I am and just like the cut of the FJ's jib, but physics, and geometry are against you. I look forward to meeting and riding with you one day, you can show me how it's done.....

Mike, the Blackbird suffers in comparison to modern sportsbikes in regard to its weight and geometry. It steers more slowly and is harder to haul around. The Busa is largely as Alf describes it, a bigger heavier sportsbike with a little more room to move. Again at the extremes you can't hide the weight. A couple of local guys here prepared Busas in an unlimited superbike series. They did great down the straight but got burned in rapid changes of direction and ate their tires, falling back the longer the race went.

Now here's where things get interesting: a Busa will out handle a BLackbird, particularly in slower tighter going, but you have to ride it aggressively to get the best out of it. The Blackbird and the FJ have the happy knack of heavier sports touring machines of being able to flow along at a pretty rapid pace without beating their rider up. So in a short sprint up a canyon, you are much better off on the Busa. Over a day in the saddle in a variety of roads, the Blackbird will take less out of you and will get you there faster and with less effort.

So the question you have to ask yourself is: what kind of riding are you going to do and what is the best tool for the job?

For me, half day runs under a couple of hundred miles: Busa. For a fast good handling bike over a day of hard riding: Blackbird.