Being new to street but a former mxer just curious differences between new and older street bikes like our fjs. Reason I ask is a guy i know has been riding forever prefers bikes like fjs. He said the older bikes are just more comfortable. I have the fj cus it was a deal but he told me I am not missing much and my 89 with low original milaege is a gem. Another guy said newer bikes are way way nicer. What says you?
I find the seating position on older bikes more upright, newer bikes seem to have the handlebars too low.
My arms are too short to ride newer bikes, i rode a mates R1 around the block and I was leaning so far forward it was too difficult to lift my head enough to see the horizon.
Lol and the fuel tank shape doesn't leave enough room for my belly :))
I find pretty much anything with an S or R or RR after the model number is more for racing than everyday use, though a blast for short commutes. I did a few 400+ mile trips on an sv650s and it hurt. But slap some bar risers on an r1 and lower the pegs and you have an fz1 with a fairing and better handling.
I don't like the new sport bikes. They make you look like a fat lump sitting on top a gas tank. Not to comforatble. They run like hell and corner on a dime but I would like to see someone ride one for 600 miles or more.
There some real nice sport touring models out there if you want to spend the money. I am cheap so the FJ fits me fine. And thats what it's all about, what makes you happy. That's what counts. If you go down the path of having to own the greatest and latest then you are in for an education.
George :good2:
I am 6'3" and there are many many new comfortable bikes available for me to buy.
Water cooled, fuel injected, even a few with driveshafts and (thanks to RPM) only just a few that are faster than my 1350 FJ.
I am not delusional in thinking that my FJs are the only comfortable, fast bikes available.
Yes, I too do not fit comfortably on sport bikes, but still there are many I do fit.
I fell in love with my FJ in '84 and I still enjoy her, warts and all. Then again I have been married for over 40 years (same wife) and before Klavdy comments, no, she has no warts...... :bomb:.
For a new bike, I would probably go with a FJR1300. But at $15800.00 for a 2013, it is a check that I am not interested in writing.
For our FJ's, there are proven mods and Randy @RPM engineering FJ specific ugraded parts. Our FJ's have always had enough oomph from the motor. A person can do a few mods and purchase a few new upgrades from Randy and have a bike that is better than it was from the dealer and equal to any 2013 bike in the same class. IMO 90% of the riding most people do with their 20+ year old FJ's and FJR's, Concours C14's, and ST1300's, they are all equal.
Fred
I love my FJ and don't ever plan on getting rid of it. This being said if I was to buy a new bike the FZ1 would look real good next to the FJ in my garage, second choice FZ8. I have never ridden them, just looking at them makes me want one. I was at one of the local Yamaha dealers las summer they had some non current FZ8s for a deal, was hard not to take a test ride.
Kurt
Hahaha!
Some of you have no idea.
It's 2013.
I like FJ's and have had a few of them, done a lot of miles on them too.
Modded?
Done just about everything you can with them apart from a huge horsepower engine upgrade.
I don't own one anymore.
Go ride a new FJR or a GTR 1400 then go ride a heavy piece of shit old FJ.
Not just around the block, either.
After that, go ride an upgraded FJ1200, one with brakes, suspension ,engine and ergonomic mods done.
Then compare them to a stock standard GTR or FJR.
Pat and I will expand on this further next week, we'll have a new gadget to try out.
Quote from: Vsekvsek on May 20, 2013, 05:43:53 PM
Being new to street but a former mxer just curious differences between new and older street bikes like our fjs. Reason I ask is a guy i know has been riding forever prefers bikes like fjs. He said the older bikes are just more comfortable. I have the fj cus it was a deal but he told me I am not missing much and my 89 with low original milaege is a gem. Another guy said newer bikes are way way nicer. What says you?
I get to ride modern bikes and a lot of guys here own modern bikes as well as their FJ's.
With a few tweaks, your missing nothing and the FJ's have soul.
New bikes to me are like a hotel room, everything (unlike my house) is modern, clean, tidy and works. The heating and cooling is efficient, the bed's great, the hot water endless, crisp sheets, a pile of thick fluffy towels, bedside controls and so on. Fun to stay at BUT, you wouldn't want to live there.
On a recent trip while riding some long sections of slab I amused myself by making a hypothetical case for a new bike. I considered all the things my bike had done over the last few days and how well it had done them and what part of that would have been better on a new/modern bike. My conclusion was nothing.
The only thing a modern bike offers that I would like is (modern) ABS for safety, although many old timers and young hot shots will tell you it's an invention of the devil and "real men" can outbrake it.
My short list of things to make it ride better are:
17" wheels F&R with modern rubber
Raise the back a bit and lower the front a bit (no cost)
14mm adjustable brake m/c with ss braided lines and EBC HH pads. IMO the standard 4 piston calipers (which I believe your bike will have) with these mods are enough. Most people do their front brake upgrades all at once and I think the improvement attributed to the blue spot calipers themselves is overrated.
After that, everything is icing, and there is LOTS of icing.
Certainly upgrading the suspension will deliver a big improvement but it is not necessary to make it handle or safe.
Don't forget, a new bike will depreciate more each year than best FJ cost. You can fund a lot of improvements for that.
First thing to do is comprehensively check the bike over, service and tune it.
Noel
Having just read Klavdy's post. He is right. An FJ is not a universal alternative to a new bike, it's not for everyone.
To some people motorbikes ARE ONLY the sum of the nuts and bolts that make them up and for them the latest and greatest is best.'
For me, and I guess many others here, the appeal of the FJ goes beyond that.
Unlike many bikes from the era that could only be described in today's world as novelty rides, the FJ equips itself well in the company of FJR's and GTR's and other modern machinery.
I like the fact that it's old, the way it looks, the quality of the finish that no amount of money will buy you on a new bike, the reasons go on.
FJR's and GTR's will be throw away bikes when they get tired, no second life.
FJ v New Bike? It would be like trading your XK120 Jag for a Toyota Camry. After all, they do everything better.
Noel
All good points.
I like Frank Moore's quote: "The RDI on my FJ is so low, as to be almost unmeasurable"
RDI = Relative Duplication Index.
The chance that someone will pull up to you at a stoplight with a bike like yours.
I rode the new Kawasaki ZX-14 last week and with a seat and bar change, I could get real comfy on that bike.
One moment it was quiet, smooth and docile...and the next moment it was piss your pants fast. Scary fast.
I have yet to try the BMW1000RR's. That's next on my list...then the new Tuono V4's...etc, etc.
I still come home to my FJ's though.
Quote from: aviationfred on May 20, 2013, 06:51:08 PM
For a new bike, I would probably go with a FJR1300. But at $15800.00 for a 2013, it is a check that I am not interested in writing.
Fred
Try $25,000 here!
Life's too short to ride old bikes all the time.
Don't get me wrong, the FJ is a classic in the way that few vehicles are.
But, and it's a big but, it's a close to 30 year old bike (probably more when you factor in the design lead time) things changed a lot in that time.
Fuel injection, electronic rider aids like ABS and traction control,aerodynamics,metallurgy,suspension and brake components, electrics, you name it.
The FJ still does it's purpose pretty well but there's no getting away from the fact that it is old.
Mind you, there's not really a modern sporty sport tourer that fills that niche,amongst a few there's the Kawasaki 1000cc Ninja SX
(http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/img/actu/2011/nouveaute/kawasaki-z1000-noir-2012_hd.jpg)
I took one(stupid name, ninja)out as a loaner bike the other week while my 1400 was getting a log book service (I want the log book stamps for the first few services).
The bike shop got a bit snarky when it came back with another 400 + Km's on it but hey, at least it got a good run.
It was quick, no doubt reliable, handled well and sounded horn with the Akrapovic slip ons
Smooth, vibration free,nice rider triangle for good ergos, quiet engine and drivetrain to no doubt pass some arcane Euro III requirement with typical quality Jap switch gear and gauges
(http://cdn.midsarl.fr/photos/articles/akrapovic-silencieux-echappement-dual-so-carbone-adaptable-pour-kawasaki-z1000-z1000sx-2010-2012-39265-800x559.jpg)
but it felt a bit cheap,some of the fasteners were already somewhat furred,its fairings rattled a bit and just didn't really do it for me.
It's no future classic that's for sure, few modern bikes are.
A lot of modern bikes are like that and you wouldn't really expect to see them on the roads after thirty years.
Then again, I probably wont be on the road in thirty years either so I'll ride modern bikes with the occasional foray on a classic while I can.
I loved my FJ. Put almost 100K miles on her. But after having the FJR for over 4 years and 60K miles, I have no longing for the FJ. I did a Saddle Sore 1K on the FJR, and several 900+ mile days, as well, which I don't think I could do on the FJ (maybe in my younger days). For me, the FJR is more comfortable, has ABS that works, decent fairing, FI, etc. Granted, the FJR is heavier and no where near as nimble, but, overall, I'll take the modern bike for everyday use.
When I get on the FJ, it seems tiny to me, now. And a bit more 'fun'. But its limitations jump out.
I picked up my FJR used, two years old, low mileage, which knocked a considerable amount off the price of new.
If I had a modern bike I would have to find something else to tinker with.
Riding my bike only accounts for about half the pleasure I get from it but I do understand some people just want to ride.
My brother for example does 35,000 km a year of purely recreational riding. His interest in tinkering with his bike is limited to putting fuel in it.
I need a rolling project.
Quote from: ribbert on May 21, 2013, 07:49:11 AM
If I had a modern bike I would have to find something else to tinker with.
Riding my bike only accounts for about half the pleasure I get from it but I do understand some people just want to ride.
My brother for example does 35,000 km a year of purely recreational riding. His interest in tinkering with his bike is limited to putting fuel in it.
I need a rolling project.
+1 on that.
I have a neighbor that has a newer bike (ZX 14) that he can't do to much work on it himself, every time he takes it to a dealer it costs him 200 - 600.00. He has a stack of receipts...... And most of it for stuff you can easliy do yourself on an older bike.
He comes over to my garage and watches me tinker with mine and wishes he could do the same to his. He now has to take his bike back in to the dealer because of something with the "fuel mapping" and some other electronic feature that isn't working correctly. But he has good job and it's good for the economy :lol:
I am pretty happy with the FJ. Lots of good bikes out there, you just have to find one that fits your pocket book, style and needs. Hell if I had a ton of money I would probably have a building full of bikes..... A bike "hoarder".
Rally next week ! :good2: :good2: :good2:
George
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 20, 2013, 11:26:19 PM
All good points.
I like Frank Moore's quote: "The RDI on my FJ is so low, as to be almost unmeasurable"
RDI = Relative Duplication Index.
The chance that someone will pull up to you at a stoplight with a bike like yours.
.
I read all the stuff K-man has to say and there are some points to a new "modern" motorcycle....like ABS..... HOWEVER......
i've never crashed because of a lack of ABS or traction control.
My FJ suits me perfectly.... I made it that way and i enjoy it that way.... it handles as well as any new motorcycle (in its class).... has as much HP and torque (if not more) as most ALL new bikes and i love proving that to the new bike riders every chance i get! :biggrin:
I cant even count how many times conversations have been started with " i used to own one of those" or " my father had one of those" or " my dad had a poster of that bike on our garage wall"
i've ridden a few new bikes..... FJR, ZX14, concours,GSXR1million,R1, FZ1, et al but i still like my FJ that does what i want when i want without having to make payments on it...... heck even including how much money i have in my engine and all the suspension upgrades combined it still cost less than half the price of a "new" sport/touring motorcycle......
the ability to work on the FJ with basic hand tools.... i had a fuel issue on a long trip out west and had my carbs apart and cleaned on the picnic table of the KOA @ Glacier National park...... No laptop or factory service manual required.
Then when you figure in the RDI (as Pat mentioned above) makes my FJ as unique as i am= priceless
yes the FJ is "old" but guess what? I'm "old" too...and i sure wouldnt want to be kicked to the curb just because of that one inevitable progression.....
Yes....you can ride a newer motorcycle than me but ya aint having any more fun than i am on my "old" one! :dance2:
KOokaloo! :good2:
Quote from: Klavdy on May 21, 2013, 05:42:02 AM
Mind you, there's not really a modern sporty sport tourer that fills that niche, amongst a few there's the Kawasaki 1000cc Ninja SX
...but it felt a bit cheap,some of the fasteners were already somewhat furred,its fairings rattled a bit and just didn't really do it for me.
It's no future classic that's for sure, few modern bikes are.
Klavdy-
I test rode one of those myself, at a Kawasaki "Rider Days" event. I was only allowed to put about 20 miles on it, in a fairly sedate, group ride. The one I rode was bone-stock and new, -it had less than a thousand miles on it, but I had a similar impression. It
did feel cheap. Also, I did not like the throttle action, which felt more like an on-off switch, (struggled to modulate it) plus the one I rode would 'hunt' and never seemed to want to settle into a particular RPM/ speed. The ergos were rider-friendly though, and the engine
did have healthy accessible power.
I had ridden the GSXR there, and was actually glad to get back on it after the test ride, for what that's worth.
Dan
The FJ always stands out in a crowd. I'd say at least 80% of the time when I'm getting gas, someone walks over and strikes up a conversation about it. While it's nice at times, there have been a number of times where several people walk up and want to shoot the shit for an hour.. Uhh.. I'm trying to get someplace!!
Yes.. it is old and all that.. I've ridden a number of newer bikes.. ZX14, both FZ1's, GSXR, VFR 800's and of course a turbo 'busa... A newer FUEL INJECTED bike is always on my mind.. epically this week... :mad:
My FJ is setup perfectly for me and I've done some very long trips on it with no complaints. A newer bike is calling..no idea which is calling though..Given the years and work I've put into the FJ, I don't think it will ever leave my garage.. Much easier to replace a newer bike..
I hope to get the local (to me) FJ riders together some evening this summer and invade one of the local bike nights. All of us pulling in at the same time would be a lot of fun.
I think the question is what do you want out of your bike. It's like owning a classic Mustang, almost anybody can go down and buy a new one. When both are at the light together which one is getting the attention. The new one, may bee faster, ride better and out handle. Park your new bike next to a vintage cafe racer, see what people are looking at. If you gave them the choice, what do they want to ride. The comparisons go on and on. The FJ doesn't handle like a modern sport bike but does it need to? The FJR is more touring than sport. A good rider on an old bike that works well can still go fast if or she wants to.
Kurt
Quote from: pdxfj on May 21, 2013, 04:00:36 PM
The FJ always stands out in a crowd. I'd say at least 80% of the time when I'm getting gas, someone walks over and strikes up a conversation about it. While it's nice at times, there have been a number of times where several people walk up and want to shoot the shit for an hour.. Uhh.. I'm trying to get someplace!!
Yes.. it is old and all that.. I've ridden a number of newer bikes.. ZX14, both FZ1's, GSXR, VFR 800's and of course a turbo 'busa... A newer FUEL INJECTED bike is always on my mind.. epically this week... :mad:
My FJ is setup perfectly for me and I've done some very long trips on it with no complaints. A newer bike is calling..no idea which is calling though..Given the years and work I've put into the FJ, I don't think it will ever leave my garage.. Much easier to replace a newer bike..
I hope to get the local (to me) FJ riders together some evening this summer and invade one of the local bike nights. All of us pulling in at the same time would be a lot of fun.
Thats been my experience too. I get a ton of people coming up and checking out and giving me compliments on my fj all the time. I have my fj setup perfect and it purrs. The powerplant on it has me spoiled beyond belief. All bikes going forward will be compared against it
I *love* my FJ1200. I loved it when it was stock (once I got rid of the crap OEM tires) and I love it more now that it has some of the Modifier's Anonymous mods. (YZF600R rear wheel, Penske shock, stiffer fork springs with cartridge emulator valves & thicker fork oil, modern radial tires, FZ1 calipers and master cylinder.)
I will love it more when it's rebuilt and has new cosmetics. And a new seat.
But in terms of quality, yeah, the FJ is frankly disappointing, even by Reagan/Thatcher-era standards. The plastics are brittle. (How many of you have had to replace your front fender? Raise your hands.) Mine have been disintegrating in the sun for 23 years. Consequently, I shit you not, I can outbrake my own turn signals. The fairing panels are a symphony of buzzing. The gauges have vibrated themselves apart; the needles swing wildly and fling damping fluid all over their faces, while the speedo center cap bounces around in the bottom of the gauge. (It has literally worn a spot in the gauge face, which by the way has vibrated itself into two pieces.) The trip odometer reset button sticks and will frequently not allow itself to be reset; the mechanism is jammed, and only sometimes unjams. So, I really never have any good idea how fast I'm going or how far I have gone. This is why I do not care that none of my gauge lights work; I don't need the distraction at night and none of it would be accurate information anyway.
The rubber valve cover bolt grommets and the valve cover gasket have become brittle, leaking oil all over the place. Again. This is in addition to the oil it burns after 106,000 miles. I'm sure the heat contributes to the periodic failure of clutch slave cylinder seals.
The starter does not always. If it's too cold, it doesn't engage but simply spins. If it's too hot, it bogs down. Really guys, a starter? They hadn't figured out starters by 1989?
Still, the FJ is a step above the 1970's crap I had beforehand. It does overcharge its battery, but at least it has never failed to (over)charge. This is my favorite bike ever, simply because it has never required me to say the word "Stator" out loud. All of its wiring still works, and the only trouble I've ever had with it has been due to the alarm I installed in 1992. I removed it in 1994 and it has been good ever since. It does not have points or an ignition condenser.
But there's only so much you can do with old "fuel toilets" (my favorite phrase for "carbuetors") and materials / manufacturing from 24 years ago. Stu's FZ6 was electric-motor smooth and had plenty of torque. My friend Art's YZF1000R felt like it was hewn from a single billet of aluminum, it made the FJ feel like a bucket of loose hardware with a missing handle by comparison. The fuel-injected GTS1000 felt unstoppable. I have never tried anything really "modern" in the current-Japanese-sport-bike sense (the 916 occupies its own place on the spectrum - on a scale of 1 to 10, a 1990's Ducati is a W - for "WIN!!") but I always feel like "I would be as fast as these guys if I had a modern bike like they have."
Still, I love the way the FJ1200 feels - it feels like home. When I let the clutch in and throttle up the driveway, it always feels like the beginning of an adventure whether I'm going to the store or out on an actual adventure. I know I'm going to have fun, and frankly that's not a feeling I got on Ducati Dave's ST1100 or my friend Doug's 'Wing or V-Rod or on Ralph's Sportster. When it feels like I'm going too fast, it's because I'm going too fast.
I'd like to try a variety of things and see what speaks to me. The Ninja 250 was fun, and I've decided I must have a 916/996/998 at some point. I want to try a BMW S1000R, a ZX14, a 'busa, a GSXR, an R1, a V-Strom, a V-Max, a VFR.
But I plan to always have the FJ. Even if I have to make my own fairings for it.
Do you like riding the bike you have?
That's the most important thing in my view, that you dig it, man.
When the romance is over though, it's time to move on.
Yet nostalgia lends a rose tint to most relationships.
I had a really modded FJ as my last one here in Aus, a '93 on model with USD front end, ohlins, 17" wheels, 4-2-1 exhaust, blah blah.
It's a beauty and went to a fellow lister.
Hmmm, I really liked most of the FJ's I've had but yes, time moves on.
You ever ridden one without a helmet?
Sound like a galvanised bucket full of broken glass and rusty bolts.
I also liked messing about with them sometimes, other times it was hatred.
Remember breaking down on the FJ in a deserted boondock or ghetto?
I do,despite near obsessive preventative maintenance I've broken down in Death Valley, been with a mate in one of the dodgiest parts of Las Vegas with a wretched and fucked FJ,having crack heads and freaks importuning us while we tried to fix the damn thing in the dark ,had recurrent fuelling issues despite cleaning the bejeezuz outta the carbs,been tormented by regulators,cracked exhausts, broken plastics, the list is familiar to anyone on this board.
I've also had the most wonderful adventures in Australia and America on my FJ's, met lifelong friends and made a few ill advised decisions as well.
Now I have three bikes, in Australia a Triumph Tiger 1050 that I can work on easily,a Kawasaki GTR 1400 (Concours in the U.S) that is a bit more involved because of the fairings but an OBD-II interface and software that connects to a laptop, tablet or smartphone makes balancing throttle bodies a simple affair,far less hassle than the old style carb balancing with tubes, ATF or mercury,it also gives you all the fault codes etc and other useful stuff like changing the air fuel ratios etc and an Aprilia Tuono in the U.S that is also really easy to work on.
None of them has ever let me down, and if they did I can connect to them via a usb cable and see what's wrong instead of guessing.
One thing that most newer bikes have all over the FJ is weight.
The FJ is a very heavy bike compared to most and I know I enjoy riding the newer bikes and can ride them much better than I ever could ride my FJ's.
Still, I reckon I'll buy another FJ, a basket case or show boat just to do it up and ride on the odd occasion.
TOOL :lol: :sarcastic: :rofl2:
The FJ is a cool bike that I am enjoying that fit into my budget. A brand new bike of any stripe does not, and will not for the foreseeable future. As such, I am going to suck it up and deal with the carbs, and the starter, and the broken plastic.
I do wish it was fuel injected. I haven't had the greatest amount of success working on multiple carbed engines...
My kids cried (really) when I talked of selling my FJ, it's been in the family a long time and has helped create many memories. To me 'new' doesn't last long and before you know it's just 'not as old'. I like the FJ because of its ease of maintenance, and all bikes need maintenance.
Quote from: baldy3853 on May 21, 2013, 08:03:40 PM
TOOL :lol: :sarcastic: :rofl2:
Tool?
Baldy, my FJR1300 crashing mate, you do know that this isn't Facebook where you communicate with your playmates via Smiley's and TXT SPK, indeed you've been told time after time that you are no longer a teenager but in fact a fat, bald, middle aged man yet still you debase these pages with them.
^^^^ HAHAHAHAHAHAHA^^^^^^
Interesting topic you've started here Klav. Me?, I won't be selling the FJ, would love to have a fuel injected bike, preferably a Triumph Sprint or Trophy, but unless I come into a lot of money, its not happening.
I was shaking my head reading your list of problems Bill thinking What The?? The only problem currently I have is a slightly vibrating dash console, but no brittle plastics etc. The sidecovers are still as flexible as they were when new etc, but then again my bike spends 90% of its life in the shed, :biggrin: (still have 115000kms on it though).
A few mods, and the Fjs are fantastic. Having a modern bike would be nice for a change, but do they have the "character" of the late 80s/early 90s Yamahas, not really. But lots of people have a sensible Toyota Camry as a daily driver, and then bring out the "Classic" car on weekends, same deal for bikes I guess. :drinks:
What does it mean to outbrake your turn signals?
Quote from: Klavdy on May 21, 2013, 07:30:27 PM
You ever ridden one without a helmet?
Sound like a galvanised bucket full of broken glass and rusty bolts.
Gotta say, mine has the usual starter chain rattle when cold etc. But what I like doing is when doing highway speeds, duck my head down behind the screen out of the wind and listen, everything sounds turbine smooth, no noise, engine is just spot on, just humming along. :good2:
My guess on the indicators, , if you still have the large non fairing mounted ones, they flop forward when stopping hard :biggrin:,, wouldn't sell the fj,s but would love a 916, , paningale,, mv, ect ect
i cant really comment on this with any knowledge because the fj's the newest bike ive ridden, seems modern to me,even has a digital time piece in the dash, :unknown:
Quote from: X-Ray on May 22, 2013, 01:58:39 AM
Quote from: Klavdy on May 21, 2013, 07:30:27 PM
You ever ridden one without a helmet?
Sound like a galvanised bucket full of broken glass and rusty bolts.
Gotta say, mine has the usual starter chain rattle when cold etc. But what I like doing is when doing highway speeds, duck my head down behind the screen out of the wind and listen, everything sounds turbine smooth, no noise, engine is just spot on, just humming along. :good2:
Yeah, they're ok when you've got your helmet on but without one,it's really noisy and odd for most of us Aussies who don't remember ever not wearing them on a road bike.
I rode for a bit in Arizona sans helmet a few times, didn't like it much.
Same with seatbelts, we just take it as normal to put a seat belt on, don't even think of it.
The first bike I ever rode was an old army BSA in the late sixty's when I was about 10yrs old. A succession of bikes followed, all at least 15 to 20 yrs older than I was at the time.
I think the most modern bike I ever had was a 79 Honda 750 bol'dor in about 1986. I've now got a 1979 Suzuki gt 250 x7 which is 34 yrs old, along with a 1993 fj 1200 which is 20 yrs old.
I love riding both of them for what they are, simple air cooled bikes that give you the buzz when needed, are easy to fix, have a certain soul about them, and attract attention when parked (especially the Suzuki).
Never ridden a modern bike to compere, but for me, old over new anytime.
Quote from: fintip on May 22, 2013, 01:31:15 AM
What does it mean to outbrake your turn signals?
I have an '89, with the front turn signals that are part of the fairing. The fairing has little tabs where steel clips slide on, which the screws screw into to hold the indicators in place. Because Yamaha's plastic age-hardens and gets brittle, all those tabs are broken. The air scoops are the same way. So, there's no way to hold any of these parts onto the bike. The scoops, I have secured with zip ties. (This after losing one on the highway last year.) But there's no good way to get zip ties around the front of the fairing, so consequently the main thing holding my turn signals into my fairing is - wind.
And if I braked hard enough on a bumpy road, the turn signals would fall out the front, and the lenses would hit the ground. I have had to get off the bike at an intersection to retrieve them.
I have since secured the lenses to the housings with non-stock hardware, so now the wires keep the assemblies from leaving the bike entirely. But sometimes they do protrude a bit, like a cartoon character's eyes, under hard braking.
This post has been an interesting read no doubt, I keep my FJ in good shape and still enjoy riding it. I am aware that newer bikes are out there that can out run, out brake and out corner the old FJ with ease. When I first bought my bike back in 1993 is was one of the best bikes on the planet and I was its proud owner touting its ability to anyone willing to listen. Over the years I have made a few nice upgrades that have kept me happy with some of the weaker items on the bike that I could change. Our friendship has grown to the point where no one anywhere would every consider it as special as I do.
After all these years I know I wont ever sell the bike, I may buy something else at some point but its the fact that we have spent so much time together on so many rides, sharing so many miles together building a strong bond between rider and machine. We are just good friends after all these years and I'm not ready to end that just yet. It has also been a bike that has allowed me to meet so many good folks over that time and I would not trade that fact for anything. I remember meeting Bill R on the Blue Ridge parkway and chatting with him long before there was a FJ Owners Group online. I also remember chatting with FJ owners all over the world before I'd ever met them in person. Some of these FJ's owners have become my best friends and for that I am grateful.
To me some bikes are just good enough to hang on to. The FJ is one of those bikes..
Eric M
Quote from: Klavdy on May 21, 2013, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: baldy3853 on May 21, 2013, 08:03:40 PM
TOOL :lol: :sarcastic: :rofl2:
Tool?
Baldy, my FJR1300 crashing mate,
What you forgot to mention was the stupid bitch who crashed into me cause I was OUT RIDING my bike not talking about it!!! Tool
indeed you've been told time after time that you are no longer a teenager but in fact a fat,
Fat I may be but I can always lose weight but ugly you will always be !!!
bald,
Bald I am by choice!!
middle aged man
Middle aged you tosser Im fu##ing old get it right !!!
yet still you debase these pages with them.
At least I own a FJ not an Italian piece of crap or that British junk pile
:good2: :good2: :good2: :good2:
What I find interesting, is that all the comments of why we love the bike, even though it's old, sounds like a tractor, heavy, there's modern technology in newer bikes, we love them because of the memories and character... all these comments could be found on any Harley thread. Maybe we have more in common than we think.
(popcorn)
Quote from: Dads_FJ on May 22, 2013, 11:51:40 AM
.....Maybe we have more in common than we think.
Very true, and not just the Harley's, include the BMW's, Triumph's, BSA's, Norton's, and all the old school UJM Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha's.
If I had to pick any old school bike to fuss over...the winner is the mighty FJ.
Now if I can only figure out how to get fuel injection on it.... Futzing with the carbs and the ethanol gas is getting old.
The one benefit to the FJ is they are a rather simple design which makes for a reliable machine. Even abused engines with burn valves still run fairly well. Given the Japanese track record for making reliable machines, just about any bike could be considered totally reliable. Sure the newer bikes have computes, sensors, etc but all of those items have a very low failure rate compared to the past.
As far as the plastics becoming brittle, it happens with age, heat, gas, oil, etc. Just about all of the issues can be taken care of and improved with a little bit of work. Doing a carb sync, replacing missing foam and such can greatly reduce vibes.
I too have had the issues with the front signals on my '87. A bit of repair work with a product called "Plast-Aid" or "Devcon Plastic Repair" makes things better than new. Repairs I made years ago are still holding strong.
http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?family=Plastic%20Welder%E2%84%A2 (http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?family=Plastic%20Welder%E2%84%A2)
http://www.plast-aid.com/ (http://www.plast-aid.com/)
One example of missing vibration absorbing materials would be on the inner faring panels. I noticed mine were missing a rubber trim piece that isolates the tank from the side panels and missing foam that makes a snug fit from the inner panel to the faring. I found some thin, self adhesive foam and used some black rubber window trim instead of paying for OEM Yamaha parts. I can't remember the last time I heard the 4k buzz.
I look at some motorcycles as fine wines. Certain years represent the era and designs seemed to match accordingly. My 89 was a good year. Soviet union was crumbling, we where riding high off new optimism and wealth. An overall good year.
Being as how I just went through this quandary, I'll offer my thoughts on the subject. First off, I purchased my FJ brand new from the dealer in 1987. My previous bike had been an '85 Honda V65 Saber. I wasn't happy with the Saber as I found it tall, top heavy, and very intimidating in tight corners. To be honest, many of the deficiencies that I found with the bike, were in no small part due to my inexperience. I bought the V65 because I thought that my 700 Saber was too small for me, and that a larger displaced bike would offer better ergos, and that extra HP would never hurt. So there I was at one of the local Yamaha dealers, and there she was. Sitting on the show room floor looking sultry and drop dead gorgeous. Her bright crimson and purest alabaster hues mesmerizing me and filing me with a lust so profound, I knew that I was doomed to slake it in the bosom of her power and the siren's call of her exhaust tone. So, one week later I made an offer, and as a result had 23 years of bliss.
However, life moves on: we grow and change, we learn new things, and end up exploring new possibilities and experiences. Sadly, this means we sometimes grow apart from our loved ones. Over time, I found that many of the roads I used to love riding, just weren't the same any more. I found that I started gravitating to the more tighter and twisty roads. The FJ handled herself well, but I always felt a little uncomfortable asking more of her. Oh, I certainly wasn't pushing her anywhere near her maximum limits, but I was certainly bumping up against mine, and didn't feel comfortable pushing more out of her. I assumed that was all there was to it. Then one day, I was seduced.
A friend and mentor, suggested that I ride his little KLX250SF. Though I balked at first (it's only a small little 250 I thought), I eventually accepted his offer. Though initially a little apprehensive by the thought of a mishap on a friends bike, after just a few curves on Washougal River Road (a local twisty delight in our neck of the woods), I became quickly enthralled by the little minx's agility and quickness in the corners. "What's that baby?" she would purr to me, "You want kitten to lean over a little more? No problem Tiger, I'm going to take good care of you. Just don't be gentle". As I learned the nuances of that little machine, I quickly found out what she meant by that last statement. She had agility and grace, but definitely lacked power. The power that I had taken for granted on the FJ was something the little minx lacked in a huge way. In the twisties that didn't matter, and I quickly learned to manage the power I had. However, in the straits it could be downright frustrating. Especially when I happened upon slower moving traffic and I was already wide open in top gear. Passing definitely became a challenge, and in some cases down right frustrating as I would whip her hard while trying to pass (if I could). Do to this one issue, I knew I would never swap my great lady for the little tramp. Still, through out that day and every subsequent ride on her after, I always ended up with a huge ass grin. The type of grin that only a proctologist could chase off your face.
As a result of my new infatuation, I decided to make my lady more accommodating for my riding style: heavier fork springs here, new Penske shock there, and finally switching over to Avon Azaros. All great improvements, but I still wasn't satisfied. I quickly found myself in the dilemma, of how much did I want to spend to make her more like what I wanted. That also led to deciding how far I wanted to go. If I spend the time and money to improve her handling, should I not also spend the money to have the engine rebuilt when it comes time? As her mileage continued upwards, I kept having to think about this. I finally came to the conclusion that for me, it didn't make sense. After all the money I would have spent, I still wouldn't have what I absolutely wanted. My lady was just too heavy for where I wanted to go with the improvements, and she still would be a twenty plus year old machine with inevitability of having to fix something else that was wearing out. With the money I would have put into modding her, I probably could have bought a decent used bike, that was lighter, more nimble, and with newer technology. So with this realization, I chose to accept my lady for what she was, and put my spare change into saving up for a new machine to eventually replace her. Oh I would still put money into her to keep her running and to solve problems that were important to me, but would forgo performance enhancements that weren't absolutely necessary. For example, Randy's RPM Oil Cooler. When visiting Arizona, I noticed that the FJ really didn't like the heat when we were running in temps well over 100oF. Randy's oil cooler solved that problem, and she ran just fine the following year's trip (last summer).
Flash forward to the beginning of April. An old friend of mine calls and says that he just got a small windfall and wanted to know if I was still thinking about selling my FJ. His question took me a little off guard, as I hadn't really planned on selling the FJ until the following spring. However, since he was serious, I told him I would think about it for a few days and get back with him. So, after thinking about it for awhile, I came to the realization that it just made too much sense to sell the 'Old Girl' off. First off, I had over 86,000 miles on her. If I waited until next spring, she would probably have well over 95,000 on her, and if that was the case, I didn't expect to get as much as I would have liked. Also, I had just spent about $500 on rebuilding my carburetors, and replacing my fork seals. Meaning, that every time I was fixing the FJ, I was taking money out of the new bike fund to fix the old bike. I therefore decided to finally let her go and accept my friends offer. Effective 9 April 2013, I've been FJless. She's now with someone who appreciates her for what she is and what she is capable of doing, and he doesn't place excessive demands on her. I'm OK with this. I've said my goodbyes, and know that she is being well taken care of.
As for me, well this is what I got: 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 (Z1000SX)
(http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab144/FeralG/Carson%20to%20Cougar%2014%20May%202013/DSC00695_zpsdf443200.jpg)
(http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab144/FeralG/Carson%20to%20Cougar%2014%20May%202013/DSC00694_zps24c156b5.jpg)
(http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab144/FeralG/Carson%20to%20Cougar%2014%20May%202013/DSC00700_zps4fc7100f.jpg)
Lighter than the FJ, shorter wheelbase, a little more power, and basically all the new technology. Plus, a 5 gallon fuel tank for just a little more range than some of her contemporaries. Obviously not for everyone, but for me she's everything I wanted in a replacement for the FJ. A lighter more nimbler dance partner, yet with the long legs needed for an all day ride and then some. After 600 miles, I have to agree with Klavdy on most of his assessment. I disagree on the 'cheapness' impression of it, but maybe that's because mine is still so new it hasn't had time to develop the rattles in the fairing. Time will tell of course. On the other hand, one thing I do agree with him unequivocally, is that this machine will definitely not be a 'modern classic'. As some have touched upon already, there is something about the FJ that just sets it apart. I saw it the first time I laid eyes on the FJ in the dealership, and as Garth has mentioned, you see it every time your pulled over somewhere, and someone walks up to you and says something to the effect that they either had one or always wanted one. I will miss that aspect of my old FJ, it did stand out in a crowd. Though the Ninja may never be a modern classic, I'm OK with that as it does do everything that I wanted from a new bike.
One thing that hasn't been touched on much in this discussion is money.
New versus old is not a choice everyone has. I, like many others here I'm sure, ride on a budget.
An FJR cost $25,000 here, a really good FJ maybe $3000
I bought my bike after researching the best bang for buck for the amount of money I had to spend. I had no particular hankering to own an FJ.
At the time if I'd had more to spend I no doubt would have bought a later model bike. If I'd had even more money I would have bought a new one.
Now, If I had the money for a new bike, I would keep the FJ and the spend the money on something else.
Noel
Nice epitaph Feral...but when me tears cleared I realised it was YOU who kicked out the one that honoured and obeyed. It was YOU who went for the younger sleek hussie with all the moves in the curves.
We`ve seen it before...You`ll be left with only an artificial legacy, while tales of chance historical encounters and conquered mountains will diminish as the younger expensive pup sucks all your Soul, to the point of senseless crasse murmerings... Then one day too soon, your pail will seem EMPTY... and it is YOU that will yearn for the Galvanised bucket with it`s heart beating to soul and cymbal.
Quote from: The General on May 23, 2013, 08:15:09 AM
...and it is YOU that will yearn for the Galvanized bucket with it`s heart beating to soul and cymbal.
...and then it will be HIM who will scan (craigslist, kijiji, flea-bay) for a suitable $1,500 to $3,000 replacement FJ!
I test rode my first FJ on the autobahn in Germany about a month after getting my motorcycle endorsement (~ `93). That set the hook for me, and I've been a loyal fan ever since.
I don't have any spare money (never have), so maintaining the FJ just seems like the way to go. She treats me right! (SO comfortable!)
Steve
:shok: When you both put it that way, you both make me feel like such a cheap philandering rider-whore. :blush: When, all I wanted was a little nimbleness in my life. :cray:
Yea, well date a gymnast.
PFFFFFFTTTTT!!
Don't let these grumpy FJ'ers get ya down. You are not the first to move on and you won't be the last. The Aussies are pissed because shit costs so much down there. (popcorn)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 23, 2013, 01:16:00 PM
Yea, well date a gymnast.
Laughing with you.. I needed that today.. Thanks Pat
Eric M
Here is the thing...... many FJ'ers i've known to move on from the FJ have gone from bike to bike to bike .... searching for the elusive perfect motorcycle..... the grass always looks greener and all that jazz.
KOokaloo!
Quote from: FeralRdr on May 23, 2013, 11:04:47 AM
:shok: When you both put it that way, you both make me feel like such a cheap philandering rider-whore. :blush: When, all I wanted was a little nimbleness in my life. :cray:
Remember where you are.. FJ-land! :wacko3:
My FJ has been gone for 8 years. Remember it fondly, put > 40k miles on it and it was a great bike. Man I was freaking out the day I sold it. Could buy another one at anytime but haven't. The times I come closest to "missing" it is at FJ rally's, which I still attend as much as possible. IMO, FJ people are the best thing about FJ's.
Btw, nice bike! :good2: Hope you enjoy it, I think that is as close to a modern FJ equivalent as you're going to find.
Quote from: FeralRdr on May 23, 2013, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 23, 2013, 01:16:00 PM
Yea, well date a gymnast.
OK. Works for me.
Your post on the new machine was great, please write more often.
Quote from: Yamifj1200 on May 23, 2013, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 23, 2013, 01:16:00 PM
Yea, well date a gymnast.
Laughing with you.. I needed that today.. Thanks Pat
Eric M
Pat can I date a Gymnast, can I ,can I Please!!!! :rofl2: :rofl2:
Baldy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EnTgkVnLA
Yes, date the gymnast!!!
Heavy piece of shit old FJ.
Out of context or not, that's just wrong man,
Sorry, I just couldn't let this topic lay.
Picopower
Quote from: Picopower on May 28, 2013, 12:27:58 PM
Heavy piece of shit old FJ.
Out of context or not, that's just wrong man,
Sorry, I just couldn't let this topic lay.
Picopower
(popcorn) (popcorn) (popcorn)
Yeah, frankly, that is hyperbole. An FJ is still at least 80% of any modern production bike, and a modded one is probably more like 90%+...
Bikes just haven't gotten *that* much better.
++1 fintip :good2:
Quote from: fintip on May 28, 2013, 03:52:06 PM
Yeah, frankly, that is hyperbole. An FJ is still at least 80% of any modern production bike, and a modded one is probably more like 90%+...
Bikes just haven't gotten *that* much better.
Right, 'specially when you compare apples to apples. It's really not fair comparing the FJ to an R1 or a BMW S1000RRRRR for example.
This topic has got me thinking about a new bike. I don't like the FJR, too much like a gold wing. Looking for something more sporty but still able to ride for some distance. Looking around the bike that keeps coming up is the Yamaha FZ1. I am NOT GOING TO SELL MY FJ!!!! Just thinking about adding another horse to the stable. FZ1 would look good next to the FJ then the cafe bike. I need to go ride one but that could make this worse.
Kurt
Quote from: racerman_27410 on May 23, 2013, 02:17:59 PM
Here is the thing...... many FJ'ers i've known to move on from the FJ have gone from bike to bike to bike .... searching for the elusive perfect motorcycle..... the grass always looks greener and all that jazz.
KOokaloo!
That happened to me after my 90 midnite blue baby burned down the house. I went to a ZZR1200 and soon realized I was once again taken in by a pretty face. Not near as comfy nor nimble as my old FJ. So I sold it and tried a Suzuki Bandit 1200. A nicer bike than that brute of a Kawi, but still, not my bike.
It took a few months, but my current FJ came on craigslist. Called, made the offer and I got her. I am now happy with my bike again. Especially after all the nice mods.
She is 23yrs old, has her little buzzes and vibrations. But she is sooo much more me than those other 2 21st century bikes.
My FJ, I think I'll keep her.
CraigO
If I were to get a new bike, it would be an early 2000 something 600cc bike like a CBR or an R6. Just for those days I want to carve up the canyons.
I would still keep my FJ though, that one is a keeper.
CraigO
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on May 28, 2013, 05:10:44 PM
Looking for something more sporty but still able to ride for some distance.
Kurt-
Have you looked at the older (800CC) VFR's? They fit the sporty-touring-more-sporty-than-touring bill pretty darn well. The 800CC V4, showcased Honda's engineering prowess for a time. The single sided swing arm is a breeze to do things like adjust the chain and remove the back wheel, and I have personally seen that bike do some amazing [very sporty] riding. The have few failure points (the regulator/rectifiers seem to be made out of paper...) but generally are good strong, do many things well, machines.
Just a thought,
Dan
Thanks Dan. Had not looked at the VFR but I ride with a local group sometimes and one of the fellows rides one. Will give it a closer look. Started out riding Yamaha's, just happened that the first bikes turned out to be and just kind of stayed with them. To this day, over thirty years later I still lean that way. Just sitting on the FZ1 or FZ8 feels like I could say on it for a while. Most of the other bikes I tried, no way. I find my self taking the DRZ400 for short hops around town these days. It's fairly comfortable to me even on an over two hour ride. Quick and light.
Kurt
There is one test new bikes all fail for me.
"If you can walk away from your bike without looking back at it, you bought the wrong bike"
I was racking up so many miles on the FJ just commuting that I purchased an additional bike to keep the miles lower and wasn't actually looking to replace it. Two bikes are nice for when one is being serviced or to 'loan' to a friend. My TDM850 is a nice compliment with it's higher handlebars. Besides I couldn't get enough for the FJ to justify selling it (yet).
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/TDM/100_1575.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/campsimonette/media/TDM/100_1575.jpg.html)
Quote from: Dads_FJ on May 28, 2013, 06:41:59 PM
Besides I couldn't get enough for the FJ to justify selling it (yet).
John,
If you ever do decide to sell the FJ, And would consider removing the belly fairing. I would buy the belly fairing. Of all the pieces and parts for the the FJ. The Lockhart fairing you have is what I am looking for the hardest.
Fred
A rare item indeed Fred, I will keep you in mind. This guy lives in Minnesota (like me), contact him and if he's willing to sell maybe I can help make a love connection.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/mcy/3828243923.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/mcy/3828243923.html)
The lockharts look great,bit more airflow than the fully enclosed style :good2:
We have a 92 VFR in the shop that someone abandoned two years ago, became a side shop project. I've ridden it around a bit; fun little bike, very light. Great launch, not as much torque at the top. Didn't get to use it in any real curves, but the shop owner rode it on some twisties during a shop group ride, and despite being a loyalist for his ZRX1100, he found himself smiling at the end of the day and impressed by it.
I did find my wrists uncomfortable after 20 minutes, but some risers might help that. Different humans will fit differently, of course.
Quote from: Dads_FJ on May 28, 2013, 07:15:16 PM
A rare item indeed Fred, I will keep you in mind. This guy lives in Minnesota (like me), contact him and if he's willing to sell maybe I can help make a love connection.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/mcy/3828243923.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/mcy/3828243923.html)
John,
Thank You for the heads up on that bike.
I gave the guy a call and left a message. I hope I can make a deal with him.
fintip,
the 91'/92' VFR is actually what I was looking to purchase when I came across my FJ. The 91'-93' body style is my favorite among the VFR's.
Fred
Quote from: fintip on May 28, 2013, 08:54:49 PM
92 VFR <snip> I've ridden it around a bit; fun little bike, very light. Great launch, not as much torque at the top. Didn't get to use it in any real curves, but the shop owner rode it on some twisties during a shop group ride, and despite being a loyalist for his ZRX1100, he found himself smiling at the end of the day and impressed by it.
I did find my wrists uncomfortable after 20 minutes, but some risers might help that. Different humans will fit differently, of course.
The 92 (750 CC) was a capable VFR but it was carbureted. The Quintessential VFR, in my humble opinion, was the ~98 or 99 800CC. They have Fuel Injection, and was before Honda decided to introduce VTEC to it. The latest 1200CC VFR is ugly, and is too far afield from what a VFR is to me -plus it's $16K -$17.5K for a new one -a bit pricey for my tastes.
Dan
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on May 28, 2013, 05:10:44 PM
FZ1 would look good next to the FJ then the cafe bike...
I think the FZ and FJ are too close in purpose/capability. Try a supermotard maybe...
Frank
Quote from: Dan Filetti on May 28, 2013, 11:07:35 PM
The 92 (750 CC) was a capable VFR but it was carbureted. The Quintessential VFR, in my humble opinion, was the ~98 or 99 800CC. They have Fuel Injection, and was before Honda decided to introduce VTEC to it. The latest 1200CC VFR is ugly, and is too far afield from what a VFR is to me -plus it's $16K -$17.5K for a new one -a bit pricey for my tastes.
Dan
The 98-99 VFR 800 are my favorite years as well. Last gasp of the wonderful sounding gear driven cams.
Quote from: Flynt on May 28, 2013, 11:19:50 PM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on May 28, 2013, 05:10:44 PM
FZ1 would look good next to the FJ then the cafe bike...
I think the FZ and FJ are too close in purpose/capability. Try a supermotard maybe...
Frank
I do think that that the FZ1 is the modern version of our FJ's. I never understood why Yamaha stopped putting effort into FJ. It would have been so easy for them to put a seventeen inch rear wheel, three and a half inch front wheel, better shock and forks. Guess it was the time of the sport bike and the FJ was yesterdays news.
Kurt
Imo the fjr failed to capture what the fj has,and just dousnt look right, no matter what extra gizmo,s they have, the xjr and fz1 are much closer to the fj,s excellence, , sorry baldy but I just don't like the fjr,s :biggrin:, too much like a goldwing
Quote from: fj11.5 on May 29, 2013, 05:55:27 PM
Imo the fjr failed to capture what the fj has,and just dousnt look right, no matter what extra gizmo,s they have, the xjr and fz1 are much closer to the fj,s excellence, , sorry baldy but I just don't like the fjr,s :biggrin:, too much like a goldwing
I agree. Guy i bought fj from bought a concourse1400. He swears its a god bike and is way way better than an fj. Just seems like a fancy goldwing if you ask me. Fj seems like a nice blend of sport and touring. Not to much of oneor the other.
Quote from: fj11.5 on May 29, 2013, 05:55:27 PM
Imo the fjr failed to capture what the fj has,and just dousnt look right, no matter what extra gizmo,s they have, the xjr and fz1 are much closer to the fj,s excellence, , sorry baldy but I just don't like the fjr,s :biggrin:, too much like a goldwing
Nothing like a gold wing...... its actually an FJ but water cooled, fuel injected and most important its SHAFT DRIVE no frigging chain to worry about, and exactly the same weight as the FJ.
Now I seen both these bikes ridden far harder then I'll even attempt and its not how fast the bike will go its the rider, you can be on the fastest bike there is but if you ride like sh@@ everybody will past you!
Me I like my FJR at home its fast enough for me doubles quite well, but I also like coming over too the US and riding my FJ, reminds me when I get home I've actually improved I'm now a greenie, no wastage in air filters, oil filters, only ever changed the plugs 3 times and I have 105000 on the clock :good2: :good2:
aldy
,Your right about the riding part, I easily kept up with an st1100 in the twisties on my very pretty cb250n, thought I was doing marvelous till I found out from the other half a dozen blokes on the ride the guy couldn't ride to save himself and was probably holding me up :biggrin: would scream out of site on the straights :lol: the other guys used to keep pace and leave him a safe distance behind because he was dangerous,, I think its mainly the look of the fjr that I don't like, I'm sure they are a brilliant bike, just not for me :scratch_one-s_head:
Yeah, I'm sure the FJR is fine if that's your cup of tea. I don't want a shaft drive, though, and I like my carbs. And like effie's driver said, it just looks too much like a sporty goldwing.
It's interesting, actually--the FJ divides between two kinds of riders, sport and touring. Fitting, then, that its engine went two directions: XJR and FJR.
By the way, I finally installed that seat latch you mailed to me--brilliant. So glad to have it. When I broke it, I figured I'd never get around to replacing it. Amazing how something so small can bring so much joy.
(And please, if that's something someone's girlfriend here once said, keep it to yourself, yeah? :rofl2: )
Quote from: fintip on May 31, 2013, 12:37:06 PM
It's interesting, actually--the FJ divides between two kinds of riders, sport and touring. Fitting, then, that its engine went two directions: XJR and FJR.
The FJR has a different engine... I'm not sure, but doubtful if it shares any parts at all with the FJ.
Oh, I had no idea. I always assumed that since Doc worked on them and Randy supplied parts for them, they must be related.
I guess they took the name one direction and the engine the other.
That's pretty much it.
The FJR is FI, water-cooled, etc... modern.
Quote from: not a lib on May 31, 2013, 02:55:02 PM
The FJR is FI, water-cooled, etc... modern.
Dunno, I wouldn't necessarily say that water cooling is a sign of modernity. FI, on the other hand...
Quote from: not a lib on May 31, 2013, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: fintip on May 31, 2013, 12:37:06 PM
It's interesting, actually--the FJ divides between two kinds of riders, sport and touring. Fitting, then, that its engine went two directions: XJR and FJR.
The FJR has a different engine... I'm not sure, but doubtful if it shares any parts at all with the FJ.
The only parts that come to mind are the clutch diaphragm spring and maybe other clutch components. Front brake and clutch m/cylinders are other FJR parts that are fairly common on FJ's, due to a condition called moditus. Pete.
Hi,
In my opinion i think just ride whatever fits in budget and makes you happy !
I have just purchased my FJ, went for a ride yesterday and loved it, so stoked !!
I have had a fair few bikes both old and new but prefer the older ones, i like to be different and not be one of the new crowd parked at the cafe or wherever.
The only issue i had yesterday was slightly sore ears from the freeway (which the general warned me of).
The FJ has won me over ! :good2:
Quote from: sean91fj on May 31, 2013, 09:05:54 PM
The only issue i had yesterday was slightly sore ears from the freeway (which the general warned me of).
The FJ has won me over ! :good2:
Sean, I have the same model (and screen)
Engine mount fix and ear plugs and you can cruise all day at any speed in complete comfort.
You'll notice if you stand on the pegs how acceptable the wind noise is. Some go for smaller screens to keep their head in clean air. However, I like the protection of that screen and use earplugs at open road speeds. Other than the buffeting, those screens offer pretty good protection from wind and rain and you're not holding your head against the wind.
Quote from: sean91fj on May 31, 2013, 09:05:54 PM
"The only issue i had yesterday was slightly sore ears from the freeway (which the general warned me of)."
The FJ has won me over ! :good2:
Two words - EAR PLUGS. Unless I'm going for a 10 minute ride in town, I always ride with ear plugs. Hearing loss is a gradual process. Riding for extended periods at freeway speeds WILL result in hearing loss. I just got fitted for a custom set of ear plugs/buds that I'm going to use on the trek to Alaska. http://www.protectear.com/all-sport/ (http://www.protectear.com/all-sport/) Will post my thoughts / feedback once I've gotten some miles on them.
Zwartie
Quote from: Zwartie on May 31, 2013, 09:54:38 PM
Two words - EAR PLUGS. Unless I'm going for a 10 minute ride in town, I always ride with ear plugs. Hearing loss is a gradual process. Riding for extended periods at freeway speeds WILL result in hearing loss. I just got fitted for a custom set of ear plugs/buds that I'm going to use on the trek to Alaska. http://www.protectear.com/all-sport/ (http://www.protectear.com/all-sport/) Will post my thoughts / feedback once I've gotten some miles on them.
Zwartie
+1
I have both the custom-made plugs and earbuds, though in my case it may be too little, too late.
Quote from: Zwartie on May 31, 2013, 09:54:38 PM
I just got fitted for a custom set of ear plugs/buds that I'm going to use on the trek to Alaska.
Zwartie
Zwartie, I have custom earplugs and love them. At the time they suggested getting different colours to make identifying L&R easy. I opted for bright orange (with a coloured wick in the R one) in case I dropped one. Well I can tell you now, a couple of years later, that had it not been for that bright colour, I would be on about my fourth set by now. You would not believe where I have managed to find them.
At $170 a pair I treat them like gold, but things happen.
Noel
I'm a big fan of molded earplugs.... i have a very shallow ear canal which causes issues with over the counter plugs.
My audiologist said inside a person's ear is as unique to them as fingerprints.
on topic we fixed a waterpump from a FJR at a FJ rally... poor design if you ask me.... the good news is this particluar failure turned out to be field repairable (by a group of FJ owners no less) but a bad failure point to be trusting in the middle of a long trip nonetheless.
I wonder if Chris P is still running that repaired pump?
KOokaloo!
How efficient is Randy's oil coiler? Does stop and go traffic become a non-issue?
Quote from: fintip on June 01, 2013, 01:42:54 AM
How efficient is Randy's oil coiler? Does stop and go traffic become a non-issue?
Certainly helps
ok thanks ! I guess i need to invest in some ear plugs asap !
I cant say that ive ever had that issue before, is it the design of the screen or that fact that the fj is so good on the freeway that you ride more of them ?
Still older bikes for me !
Quote from: JPaganel on May 31, 2013, 06:36:38 PM
Dunno, I wouldn't necessarily say that water cooling is a sign of modernity.
Water cooling is indeed a indicator or modernity. Water cooling allows for the creation of higher engine temps. Any engine builder will tell you heat is the enemy. Too much heat will kill any motor. Water cooling allows for higher internal temps, allowing for greater performance while still providing reliability.
While it is (I guess) possible to get the same performance out of a air cooled motor that can be had with an otherwise similar water cooled motor, I contend doing so will result in the loss of reliability for that air cooled motor. Frank M's Brutus (a truly amazing motor) has struggled with Carb issues, and is currently being torn down to suss out an oil leak, by way of example.
Dan
Quote from: Dan Filetti on June 01, 2013, 08:35:11 AM
While it is (I guess) possible to get the same performance out of a air cooled motor that can be had with an otherwise similar water cooled motor, I contend doing so will result in the loss of reliability for that air cooled motor. Frank M's Brutus (a truly amazing motor) has struggled with Carb issues, and is currently being torn down to suss out an oil leak, by way of example.
Dan
I've never had carb issues with Brutus after the initial tuning phase but it is true i am still fighting a oil loss issue.... hopefully this go round with hank Scott will recitify the situation. :good2:
I sitll dont believe my money would have been better spent on a new motorcycle.
KOokaloo!
Quote from: Dan Filetti on June 01, 2013, 08:35:11 AM
While it is (I guess) possible to get the same performance out of a air cooled motor that can be had with an otherwise similar water cooled motor, I contend doing so will result in the loss of reliability for that air cooled motor.
Water cooling adds radiator, hoses, water pump - multiple points of potential failure. I'd say reliability is a wash.
I don't know for sure about performance, you may be right there, although Porsche has been running air cooled for decades and there haven't been that many complaints about their performance.
The one thing water cooling has on air cooling is the ability to adapt to a wider range of ambient temperatures.
Quote from: Dan Filetti on June 01, 2013, 08:35:11 AM
Water cooling is indeed a indicator or modernity. Water cooling allows for the creation of higher engine temps. Any engine builder will tell you heat is the enemy. Too much heat will kill any motor. Water cooling allows for higher internal temps, allowing for greater performance while still providing reliability.
While it is (I guess) possible to get the same performance out of a air cooled motor that can be had with an otherwise similar water cooled motor, I contend doing so will result in the loss of reliability for that air cooled motor. Frank M's Brutus (a truly amazing motor) has struggled with Carb issues, and is currently being torn down to suss out an oil leak, by way of example.
Dan
An interesting subject Dan
There have been production water cooled bikes for over 100 years, I had two in the early 70's. The most popular and reliable high mileage motor ever, the BMW boxer twin, was (until just recently) air cooled. Piston aircraft engines are air cooled without compromising reliability, Volkswagen, Porsche.
There have been many vehicles built over the years with poorly designed cooling systems that are prone to overheating which effects reliability. Loose your coolant any one of a dozen ways and don't catch it quick enough and your reliability ends right there.
On the other hand, there are many advantages to water cooling also. Not having to expose the engine to the airflow allows for all sorts of design flexability for one.
The FJ is not a very good example of efficient air cooling, but designed right, I don't think you could suggest that air cooled motors won't go the distance or are less reliable.
The most common reason for modern bikes changing over to water cooling is emissions. This is the only reason BMW changed.
I've never had an air cooled motor dump its cooling fins on the road and seize.
You could draw up a list of pros and cons for both but I don't think there's a clear winner.
Noel
Quote from: racerman_27410 on June 01, 2013, 09:25:02 AM
I've never had carb issues with Brutus after the initial tuning phase.
Forgive me Frank, I though you had to abandon the big Flat Sides because you could not make them work -no?
Dan
Fun. OK, so if performance (and the related design principles of: weight and compactness/ aerodynamics) are factors, then water cooling is the way the big boys go. F1, WSB, Nascar, Top Fuel, Prostock, the list does goes on. When was the last time an air cooled motor finished anywhere near the top 10 in the: Daytona 500, Jarez, Isle of Man?
Saying that "The most common reason for modern bikes changing over to water cooling is emissions." I believe, illustrated my point -correct me if you disagree please. UN-burned hydrocarbons in one motor, versus fewer in another, indicates at least the real potential for greater performance.
That said, if the question is: do us mere mortals need water cooling? A case could be made that the answer is 'no', depending on what you want, expect and need from your machine. Water cooling is more expensive to make and maintain, more complex (greater entropy), and yes heavier. Nor is it 'new', but it is what the world's motor manufactures have moved to in spades, which does represent modernity, and, unless you buy into engineered planned obsolescence, it represents the very state of reliability.
Dan
I just read this:
"The more heat generated, the more difficult it becomes to get rid of that heat. As you raise compression ratios and run the engine at higher rpm's, at some point with an air-cooled engine, you just can't make the cooling fins any larger, can't fit any more on, and you can't blow enough air over those fins to get rid of the heat faster than it is being produced. This is when the dreaded "piston seizure" usually takes place."
Thought this was as good as any point on the performance comparison point.
Dan
Quote from: Dan Filetti on June 01, 2013, 03:33:18 PM
I just read this:
"The more heat generated, the more difficult it becomes to get rid of that heat. As you raise compression ratios and run the engine at higher rpm's, at some point with an air-cooled engine, you just can't make the cooling fins any larger, can't fit any more on, and you can't blow enough air over those fins to get rid of the heat faster than it is being produced. This is when the dreaded "piston seizure" usually takes place."
Thought this was as good as any point on the performance comparison point.
Dan
Dan, I'm not making a case for one system over the other. Merely refuting the idea that air cooled motors are less reliable.
Horses for courses, different applications suit different systems. Bringing cars into it is mostly irrelevant because their design doesn't allow for airflow. Racing engines can be tuned better when the operating temperature can be limited to a narrow range and independent of ambient temperature. Same applies to achieving emissions targets.
Racing engines of any type have entirely different goals to road bike engines and I don't think can be used in any sort of comparison. Longevity for example is not one of their targets nor is economy.
Top fuel dragsters don't use either!
It is interesting that VW's and BMW boxer engines have probably done more miles in hostile environments over the last 50 years than any other engines ever built to this day.
As far as that quote goes, all he is saying is that a cooling system needs to be matched to the engine, nothing new there. If you can't cool it with air, cool it with water. That's what the manufacturers decide when they design it.
"This is when the dreaded "piston seizure" usually takes place." This is not the sort of terminology used by someone with any sort of technical background.
Aircooled engines don't rely entirely on airflow, there is also radiated heat dissipation. There are millions of stationary motors around the word that have been chugging away for years being efficiently cooled by cooling fins with no air flow.
The call on which is best depends entirely on the end use. Neither one is universally better than the other.
Just so my position on this is clear, I repeat:
I'm not making a case for one system over the other. Merely refuting the idea that air cooled motors are less reliable.Noel
(popcorn)
Quote from: racerman_27410 on June 01, 2013, 12:26:59 AM
I'm a big fan of molded earplugs.... i have a very shallow ear canal which causes issues with over the counter plugs.
My audiologist said inside a person's ear is as unique to them as fingerprints.
on topic we fixed a waterpump from a FJR at a FJ rally... poor design if you ask me.... the good news is this particluar failure turned out to be field repairable (by a group of FJ owners no less) but a bad failure point to be trusting in the middle of a long trip nonetheless.
I wonder if Chris P is still running that repaired pump?
KOokaloo!
Frank,
Yep, still have the repaired pump installed. I have a box with new seals, etc. on the workbench, but haven't seen a need to touch the pump, again. From what I can tell on the FJR Forum, its a fairly rare occurrence, though not unheard of.
I've found the FJR to be almost as easy as the FJ to work on. Whereas, I've seen reports that the new Connie 14 is a nightmare. You have to remove frame rails just to change sparkplugs, with an 8K mile change interval, at that.
The FJR, like the FJ, can be a fast bike, almost completely dependent upon the skills of the rider. Pop the side cases off and it can go pretty well (though not necessarily in my hands).
I think the FJR evolved the concept of the FJ. A bike you can ride all day but still hold its own in the twisties. The original FJ1100 was a 'superbike', but the '93 FJ1200 was more of a sport tourer.
So here is my take on this:
Attribute:
Cost to Acquire: FJ wins. For what you pay it is very difficult to find better value. At this point many are well cared for. A pretty big advantage is that the young guys who are hard on bikes are more interested in the race replicas.
Easy to work on cost to service: This is a key advantage.
Air Cooled: Related to the point above, now water works to break down. Or in our case freeze.
Parts Availability Power Train: As old bikes go the FJ is hard to beat due to Legends racing and the XJR. It is even rumored that some people actually make a living exclusively selling parts and maintaining for these 20-30 year old bikes.
Parts Availability Plastic: Not so great. Finding out that this is the single most expensive thing to keep in good shape on these bikes.
Parts Availability Frame/Etc: Not as bad as plastic but getting rare.
Power/Torque: Not sure what I would do with more...other than win the bragging contest...
Ride Comfort: Rates a B+ with me. I am sure a $20,000 bike could be better with power windshield, heated seats, cruise control, stereo...wait...it's starting to sound like my Caddy.
Easy to Modify/Improve: Biggest weaknesses seem to be the suspension and wheels/tires. That is why GIXXERS, R6's and R1's were invented and sold to young people who tend to fall down after only a few thousand miles. Besides I understand that updating all this stuff is a cure for moditis.
Looks: Well, the FJ is a still great looking bike.
Reliability: Tough to beat.
The ideal bike: Fj1200 powerplant, modern suspension (say R1, R6) and wheels, tires front and back.
Quote from: FJ Flyer on June 03, 2013, 09:25:35 AM
Quote from: racerman_27410 on June 01, 2013, 12:26:59 AM
on topic we fixed a waterpump from a FJR at a FJ rally... poor design if you ask me
Frank,
Yep, still have the repaired pump installed.
The FJR, like the FJ, can be a fast bike, almost completely dependent upon the skills of the rider. Pop the side cases off and it can go pretty well (though not necessarily in my hands).
I think the FJR evolved the concept of the FJ. A bike you can ride all day but still hold its own in the twisties. The original FJ1100 was a 'superbike', but the '93 FJ1200 was more of a sport tourer.
Yeah, I don`t mind the "Replicas", just think the original is better. (Replica`s are like a Youth club for Lions & Rotarians) :bomb:
Hmmm- seems like I struck a nerve with this thread?
I just love my fj and was curious if spending a ton of money on something new was all that. Sounds like maybe not necessarily so.