Shift lever was loose after 29 years of use. So I installed a bushing (teflon coating in the inside, slick as snot and only about $6.00!)
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/SDC10509.jpg)
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/SDC10506.jpg)
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/SDC10508.jpg)
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/SDC10504.jpg)
finished product
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/SDC10517.jpg)
I'll let you know how it stands up!
A thinwall bushing solution that Pat and I can agree on.
Hein.
Dad, where did you get that bushing from? My shift lever is very sloppy and I was thinking of shimming with teflon tape but something off the shelf would be much easier.
Quote from: hein on January 27, 2012, 05:32:18 PM
A thinwall bushing solution that Pat and I can agree on. Hein.
Yes indeedy !! :good2: Very cool John, thank you.
When we get the bushing info, would you mind if I replicated your solution (this post) in our Files section for ease of future reference?
Quote from: grannyknot on January 27, 2012, 06:51:27 PM
Dad, where did you get that bushing from? My shift lever is very sloppy and I was thinking of shimming with teflon tape but something off the shelf would be much easier.
Looks like a DU bushing from Garlock, we use about 24 million of their product every year. Our sizes are mostly in SAE but some are metric, what is the length? I can supply the Garlock part number to the club. McMaster Carr and Grainger carry them in almost any size.
Okay, here's what I got... I went to my local bearing supplier in Rochester, MN: http://www.tecindustrialinc.com/ (http://www.tecindustrialinc.com/) a *very* helpful place, and told them what I was after. Next day he says come on in and check out what he ordered. On the box it it seems to be made by INA with a part number of EGB1220-E40 and/or 70384053. My google search came up with this:
http://medias.ina.de/medias/en (http://medias.ina.de/medias/en)!hp.ec.br.pr/EGB..-E40*EGB1220-E40
I hope this makes sense to all you Machinists... I can go back and get more information if this isn't enough. With the teflon coating on the ID, I can tell this is going to shift like butter! And no problem Pat, x-fer this to a different area.
John
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sleeve-bearings/=fzt90d (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sleeve-bearings/=fzt90d)
McMaster Carr part number 6679K17, $3.38 ea, Grainger sucked for finding it.
I think somebody with a Bridgeport & a 14mm reamer could make a lot of $$. :good:
Quote from: Dads_FJ on January 27, 2012, 08:13:53 PM
I think somebody with a Bridgeport & a 14mm reamer could make a lot of $$. :good:
John, did you hand ream, via drill bit, the hole in the shifter to 14mm?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 28, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: Dads_FJ on January 27, 2012, 08:13:53 PM
I think somebody with a Bridgeport & a 14mm reamer could make a lot of $$. :good:
John, did you hand ream, via drill bit, the hole in the shifter to 14mm?
Well, *I* didn't. But here's where the story gets kind of funny. The bearing was cheap enough... and TEC (where I bought it) said for $30 they could bore the hole in my shifter. Seems cheap enough, Bridgeports are expensive... But I can buy a NEW shifter for about $30 from Yamaha... And so I thought about just eating the bushing and purchasing a new shift lever. I asked a friend of mine who works in the machine shop at work if I couldn't just use a dremmel, and he said bring it over, so I guess first he drilled it then used a 14mm ream, but I'm not sure if it was hand operated or not, I just assumed not... I can ask him next week, I'm taking him out to lunch for the favor :drinks:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 28, 2012, 11:38:09 AM
John, did you hand ream, via drill bit, the hole in the shifter to 14mm?
These bushings have a fairly tight tolerance hole for installation if you follow the manufacturers recommendations. And when you follow them, the bushing needs to be pressed in. If the shaft is also to spec it will not go in or turn very easy. After pressing in the bushing you need to chase it with a burnishing tool that seats and re-sizes it. After that the shaft has a very close fit and smooth wiggle free operation. The PTFE lining makes the joint maintenance free, and for the shift lever, it should last 20 or more years.
Don't worry too much about the shaft size or the burnishing tool. This is required to get the bushing to last under full working load, the shift lever is light duty for the bushing. Good fix.
Quote from: FJmonkey on January 28, 2012, 12:59:59 PM
..... the bushing needs to be pressed in. If the shaft is also to spec it will not go in or turn very easy.
Mark, I was wondering if freezing the bushing and heating the shift lever would allow the bushing to be seated without a press?
Like using a threaded rod and nut/washer technique like we use on our motor mounts.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 28, 2012, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on January 28, 2012, 12:59:59 PM
..... the bushing needs to be pressed in. If the shaft is also to spec it will not go in or turn very easy.
Mark, I was wondering if freezing the bushing and heating the shift lever would allow the bushing to be seated without a press?
Like using a threaded rod and nut/washer technique like we use on our motor mounts.
Bench vise and some sockets if needed.
Hi Pat, let me take a shot at this.
If you have a bench vice you've already got a crude press. You will require a press plug, a stepped piece of metal that will fit into the id of the bushing with a larger step that will support the end of the bushing, and a set of soft jaws for your vice. Line up the bushing to the lever hole, there should be a chamfer on the bushing, insert the press plug into the bushing and put the whole mess between the vice jaws and close the vice until the bushing is seated all the way in.
As much as I admire and encourage diy solution sometimes the economics don't make sense. I'm fortunate in that I do have a lathe,a mill, a sunnen hone and other assorted equipment. However, if I had to farm out the machining the $30.00 lever becomes a cheaper solution.
If one wants to still attempt it at home there are alternatives. Drilling the lever with a twist drill to an accurate dimension is impossible but "sneaking" up to just under the target dimension using twist drills is. The hole would still have to be finished with a pin hone or a reamer. Now the bushing could be installed using the vice method. A pin hone or something similar would still be required to resize the bushing.
Hein.
Quote from: hein on January 28, 2012, 05:22:10 PM
Hi Pat, let me take a shot at this.
If you have a bench vice you've already got a crude press. You will require a press plug, a stepped piece of metal that will fit into the id of the bushing with a larger step that will support the end of the bushing, and a set of soft jaws for your vice. Line up the bushing to the lever hole, there should be a chamfer on the bushing, insert the press plug into the bushing and put the whole mess between the vice jaws and close the vice until the bushing is seated all the way in.
As much as I admire and encourage diy solution sometimes the economics don't make sense. I'm fortunate in that I do have a lathe,a mill, a sunnen hone and other assorted equipment. However, if I had to farm out the machining the $30.00 lever becomes a cheaper solution.
If one wants to still attempt it at home there are alternatives. Drilling the lever with a twist drill to an accurate dimension is impossible but "sneaking" up to just under the target dimension using twist drills is. The hole would still have to be finished with a pin hone or a reamer. Now the bushing could be installed using the vice method. A pin hone or something similar would still be required to resize the bushing.
Hein.
It is not necessary to press fit and re-size in this case. The shaft size is 1/2 mm under the bushing ID. It will drop in with less slop than before. No reaming or use of pin hone on these bushings. The PTFE will get removed and you are back to steel on steel. The burnishing tool is a polished rod with a slightly wider shoulder that when pushed through the installed bushing it pushes it back into proper diameter without removing the coating.
Pat, if the shaft size was to spec your solution may work. Cheaper than buying or machining the burnishing tool. On most of our applications the shaft is undersized enough that we don't burnish the bushing. Just press in and assemble.
Ok Thanks guys.
Good afternoon FJmonkeyman, I'm responding because I like a good debate.
In a previous post you mentioned " these bushings have a tight tolerance hole for installation" so I think that we can agree on the fact that the hole resizing of the lever is important. Which to me means you still have to finish the re sized bore accurately. Also you stated that the bushing would have to be pressed in. This brings me back to the subject of "home" maching versus "shop" machining. Assuming that the hole is accurate and the bushing installed all that is left is the finishing of the bushing bore. I'm somewhat familiar with PTFE bushings, not even close to what you are, and I agree that honing or reaming will destoy the"slippery surface" However a 1/2 mm. or approx. .020 clearance would be considered a sloppy fit by most machinists.
Bring on the wine and cheese.
Hein.
Quote from: hein on January 28, 2012, 07:34:29 PM
Good afternoon FJmonkeyman, I'm responding because I like a good debate.
In a previous post you mentioned " these bushings have a tight tolerance hole for installation" so I think that we can agree on the fact that the hole resizing of the lever is important. Which to me means you still have to finish the re sized bore accurately. Also you stated that the bushing would have to be pressed in. This brings me back to the subject of "home" maching versus "shop" machining. Assuming that the hole is accurate and the bushing installed all that is left is the finishing of the bushing bore. I'm somewhat familiar with PTFE bushings, not even close to what you are, and I agree that honing or reaming will destoy the"slippery surface" However a 1/2 mm. or approx. .020 clearance would be considered a sloppy fit by most machinists.
Bring on the wine and cheese.
Hein.
Hein, your generosity with the wine and cheese is beyond compare. And anytime we can debate is a good time. The bore size, press fit, burnish after, is all to achieve maximum load capacity. A sloppy fit on a shift lever with a PTFE coated bushing is way better than a good fit on steel on steel. The PTFE does not need any additional lubrication during its life. Looking forward to riding with you at the next rally.
I will be interested in this repair after you all get thekinks worked out. I now have a bushing made from a beer can on my shifter.
Monkeyman, I agree, a sloppy fit using a ptfe coated bushing is better than a tight fit steel to steel. Consider oilite bushing material as an alternative, .001-.002 fit, no rattles and long life.
SkyFive, I've used and always liked "beercan" solutions
Quote from: SkyFive on January 28, 2012, 08:05:19 PM
I will be interested in this repair after you all get thekinks worked out. I now have a bushing made from a beer can on my shifter.
The beer can fix Is also quite acceptable, it may not last as long or have a solid feel but it more than makes up for this by being very easy to find materials and installation is easy. Post your pics on the beer can fix for us. We might be on the road without the help of a machine shop or just tighter than a frog's butt on cash for repairs. Lube often and replace the thin shims every 15 6 packs.
Quote from: hein on January 28, 2012, 09:47:07 PM
Monkeyman, I agree, a sloppy fit using a ptfe coated bushing is better than a tight fit steel to steel. Consider oilite bushing material as an alternative, .001-.002 fit, no rattles and long life.
SkyFive, I've used and always liked "beercan" solutions
Yep, oilite will will work wonders with a shot of lube every chain lube and be good for years. I like the PTFE solution cuz you don't need to remember to lube it. It stays dry and does not attract dirt and keeps on working. I guess you could add a lube point if you have a chain oil system and tee off that to keep it lubricated. Seems way too complex for the task. I try to avoid the Gold Ruberg approach to problem solving. But it could be fun......
Quote from: SkyFive on January 28, 2012, 08:05:19 PM
I will be interested in this repair after you all get thekinks worked out. I now have a bushing made from a beer can on my shifter.
Polymer-lined beer can? :biggrin:
Quote from: rktmanfj on January 28, 2012, 10:09:47 PM
Polymer-lined beer can? :biggrin:
WTF are you drinking????
Quote from: FJmonkey on January 28, 2012, 10:12:01 PM
Quote from: rktmanfj on January 28, 2012, 10:09:47 PM
Polymer-lined beer can? :biggrin:
WTF are you drinking????
Not me... some of the 'budget brews' come in poly-lined cans.
Quote from: rktmanfj on January 28, 2012, 10:16:04 PM
Not me... some of the 'budget brews' come in poly-lined cans.
Ok, as long as we don't have any club members drinking any of that cheep ass brew.
Quote from: FJmonkey on January 28, 2012, 09:59:02 PM
.... I guess you could add a lube point if you have a chain oil system and tee off that to keep it lubricated. Seems way too complex for the task. .....
There is a indentation on the shaft to hold grease, how about drill an tap (back side) the shifter for a zerk fitting?
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/SDC10509.jpg)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 29, 2012, 12:02:28 AM
There is a indentation on the shaft to hold grease, how about drill an tap (back side) the shifter for a zerk fitting?
If the PTFE bushing is used then I would not use any lube. It just attracts dirt. The more maintenance free the bike is, the more time we have to keep it polished. :biggrin:
There is always time for lubrication. :yes:
Quote from: Mark Olson on January 29, 2012, 11:38:38 AM
There is always time for lubrication. :yes:
Specially when it's self-lubricating....The bushing that is..... :blush:
Good afternoon Mark.
I still agree with you about the teflon coated bushing solution as being a good idea but your numbers confuse me. You stated a.5mm. clearance which converted into inches is approx. .020 Considering that a beer can is .004 and a curly red hair is approx. .002 you would need about 4 beercans or 10 rch to achieve a zero clearance fit. . At a .020 fit, based on a lever approx 4" long with a bushing approx .750 wide and using the half clearance measurement as reference point,.010, you would end up with .283 deviation in either direction at the shifter peg for a total of.566 inches of "slop". This is what we are trying to get rid of.
Ignore my calculations and use Dads FJ's measurements to understand my confusion.
1) id. of bushing 12.02 mm.
2) od. of shaft 11.95 mm.
3) clearance .07 mm. or .0027 thou.
4) allowing for an interferance fit
into the lever of .001 or slightly less the running clearance would be about .002 or 10% of what you call for.
Either you speced out the wrong bushing , used a larger shaft measurement Or just maybe moved a decimal point in the wrong direction.
.5mm.=.0196 in.
.05mm.=.00196 in. pretty close to Dads FJ's measurement.
I would defend the oilite bushing solution as still being practical. Pat's suggestion of adding a grease fitting is still a very commen one in industry and still used on motorcycles. Since your neck bearings are also lubed by grease, and I doubt that you would repack them on the same frequency as the drive chain gets lubed, I think that solution is low maintenance. I do agree that teflon is lower maintenance but in a sloppy fit enviroment the teflon would be gone rapidly.
Now its time to empty more cans and check on the wall thickness consistency.
Nothing like a good debateto bring on thirst. Hein.
Quote from: hein on January 29, 2012, 03:45:34 PM
Good afternoon Mark.
I still agree with you about the teflon coated bushing solution as being a good idea but your numbers confuse me. You stated a.5mm. clearance which converted into inches is approx. .020 Considering that a beer can is .004 and a curly red hair is approx. .002 you would need about 4 beercans or 10 rch to achieve a zero clearance fit. . At a .020 fit, based on a lever approx 4" long with a bushing approx .750 wide and using the half clearance measurement as reference point,.010, you would end up with .283 deviation in either direction at the shifter peg for a total of.566 inches of "slop". This is what we are trying to get rid of.
Ignore my calculations and use Dads FJ's measurements to understand my confusion.
1) id. of bushing 12.02 mm.
2) od. of shaft 11.95 mm.
3) clearance .07 mm. or .0027 thou.
4) allowing for an interferance fit
into the lever of .001 or slightly less the running clearance would be about .002 or 10% of what you call for.
Either you speced out the wrong bushing , used a larger shaft measurement Or just maybe moved a decimal point in the wrong direction.
.5mm.=.0196 in.
.05mm.=.00196 in. pretty close to Dads FJ's measurement.
I would defend the oilite bushing solution as still being practical. Pat's suggestion of adding a grease fitting is still a very commen one in industry and still used on motorcycles. Since your neck bearings are also lubed by grease, and I doubt that you would repack them on the same frequency as the drive chain gets lubed, I think that solution is low maintenance. I do agree that teflon is lower maintenance but in a sloppy fit enviroment the teflon would be gone rapidly.
Now its time to empty more cans and check on the wall thickness consistency.
Nothing like a good debateto bring on thirst. Hein.
I have already jumped off this train. In either case I think we already agree that a properly sized fit between bushing and shaft is best in all cases. Sintered bronze/Oilite with zerc fitting vs. Steel PTFE. both should last another 25 years, one with some additional maintenance to keep lubed. A sloppy fit on either will reduce life by the amount of sloppy fit. My Angelest crest/Bouquet Canyon ride is over for today, 180 odd miles of twisties in this nice cool Kalifornia weather, the chain is lubed, Battery Tender on, cover in place, time for a beer . :drinks:
You know,
It's funny that I will have just completed the same ride Mark mentioned in the last post as we had a conversation about this very topic...
Since I already do a modification for the Honda guys that replaces the original shifter bushing with a set of ball bearings I figured I would revisit this issue. http://www.v4market.com/Trans-Complete-Shifter-Service_p_178.html (http://www.v4market.com/Trans-Complete-Shifter-Service_p_178.html)
Especailly with the amount of slop I have in the linkage on my bike. The only disadvantage of the modd that I do for the Magnas is that if you go down and whack the shifter hard enough to bend it, you trash the bearings. (Only had it happen once so far. But then again, you usually shear the stock bolt anyway so I guess it's a wash) The point is, I have had several Magna owners tell me that they were having a second gear issue and that after putting the upgraded shifter on the issue went away. Just taking out all the slop in the linkage. There are two places that you get this extra slop. The bushing that the arm rides on, and the worn ball joints. For the ball joints I have some metric ones that were made up for me with nylon lineres and seals. They will last a long time and they'll fit the FJ.
The point is, the bearing that I'm pressing in for the Magnas have a 14mm OD, so I have the tooling to bore the correctly sized hole. I'll give one of these PTFE lined bushings a shot and see if that'll be as tight as doign the bearing thing. If not I'll just put in a set of 12x18mm bearings.
Sounds good mate,count me in
Well, I have to say that I am very disappointed with the precision of the fit with the McMaster Carr part
number 6679K17 Teflon lined bushing. It is just as loose in my opinion as the original assembly.
(I just put the new bushing over the an original shifter stud to check the fit before continuing)
Definitely not worth doing any machining to make it fit. So, bushings are out, full speed ahead on ball
bearings. Well, that and just generally eliminating play from the assembly. Step one was replacing the
worn out ball joins with my improved ones. This was a little more challenging than I expected as the
original studs are swaged in place and special care needs to be taken to avoid damaging the aluminum
components when pressing them out.
Here is the shifter installed with the upgraded ball joints.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/FJ1200%20Rebuild/Modifications/13811809166280_zps4d91108d.jpg)
And wow. Just from doing that, it makes a big difference in the amount of foot travel and crispness of the shift. :biggrin:
As for the bearings are concerned I have devised a method on paper to replace the original shifter bolt
with an 8mm bolt, some washers, a spacer, and a couple bearings. The best part is, if it works out the
way I hope, it'll be a upgrade and replacement for the original shifter pivot bolt. And it won't require and
machine work to be done to the shifter. I'm just EARGERLY waiting for the bearings I ordered from a
company in Canada to arrive to make sure. :dance2: (On a side note, I just can't seem to get stuff
made in the USA anymore. I had to go to Canada for the bearings, England for the washers, and India for the bushing...)
:dash2:
I am sure a new shifter bolt would also help. Just like the inner bushing of the shift lever is worn after 20+ years, the O.D. of the shifter bolt would likely have worn.
New shifter bolt from RPM.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ShifterPivotBolt (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ShifterPivotBolt)
Fred
Would it have been possible to just drill the old ball joint shafts out of the shifter lever and linkage?
Quote from: aviationfred on October 09, 2013, 04:22:36 PM
I am sure a new shifter bolt would also help. Just like the inner bushing of the shift lever is worn after 20+ years, the O.D. of the shifter bolt would likely have worn.
New shifter bolt from RPM.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ShifterPivotBolt (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ShifterPivotBolt)
Fred
Good point, my shifter bolt was only 6 years old when I performed this mod.
Yes it is. Basically what I did was cut off the ball, center punched the swaged stud, drilled it out,
then used a punch with a socket over the part where the ball was cut. I didn't completely drill it out
because the hole wasn't completely on center and I didn't want to damage the shifter.
Here was the shifter that came with the bike.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/FJ1200%20Rebuild/Modifications/13811809173563_zps95d6ff8a.jpg)
You can see that the PO sheared the shifter bolt when he went down and replaced it with an 8mm bolt,
12x25mm bushing, and a nut to hold it in place. I liked where he was going with replacing the "unobtainium"
shifter pivot bolt.
The bolt that Randy came up with is awesome, but my method should be able to completely replace it with
a ball precision bearing supported pivot for less than the price of the RPM part.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/FJ1200%20Rebuild/Modifications/FJ1200Shifter_zpsc4058a00.jpg)
I'm still waiting for my bearings and washer though.
Excellent idea! Very interested as my shifter linkage is kind of sloppy also
I'm telling you, I'm just on pins and needles waiting for my bearings to come in. I really want to see
how this goes together. (I'm already loving just having the old ball joints replaced) :biggrin:
In the mean time, so that maybe you can understand why I am so excited about this, here is some
feedback I got over at the V4 Honda forum about the shift modd for those bikes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/Shifter%20Modd%20Feedback/ShifterModdFeedback7_zps4fdc2e2a.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/Shifter%20Modd%20Feedback/ShifterModdFeedback3_zps3cdd2e72.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/Shifter%20Modd%20Feedback/ShifterModdFeedback4_zpsb3931c84.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/Shifter%20Modd%20Feedback/ShifterModdFeedback5_zps721612e0.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/Shifter%20Modd%20Feedback/ShifterModdFeedback2_zpsf9ba3c12.jpg)
Quote from: skymasteres on October 09, 2013, 02:51:54 PM
(On a side note, I just can't seem to get stuff made in the USA anymore. I had to go to Canada for the bearings, England for the washers, and India for the bushing...)
Mike,
I am not sure why you had to go to Canada for the bearings, those bearings are very popular in the RC car world. I found what looks like the bearing you are looking for, MF128-ZZ readily available in the US as well as highly sold on eBay but mostly by international vendors.
Here is the first US vendor I found; http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/33/8x12x3-5-MR128ZZ (http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Radial-Bearings/33/8x12x3-5-MR128ZZ)
But with pricing as cheap as this it is probably worth waiting on them for 7-10 business day; http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-8-x-12-x-3-5mm-MF128zz-Shielded-Flanged-Model-Ball-Flange-Bearing-8-12-3-5-/180915644963?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-8-x-12-x-3-5mm-MF128zz-Shielded-Flanged-Model-Ball-Flange-Bearing-8-12-3-5-/180915644963?_trksid=p2054897.l4275)
Since the shift pivot bolt is a dual purpose item as it must retain the foot peg rigidly to the frame and the shifter must pivot, are you going to rely solely on the internal spacer of the bearing to hold the bolt tight and keep the foot peg tight? The surface area of the center bearing race as well as the surface area of the spacer might not be enough to keep the foot peg tight.
Also, the foot peg is rubber mounted which allows it to twist and the flange of the O.E. bolt and rubber backed washer limit the travel. That might cause some issues of rubbing the shift lever if you are just using a washer between it and the foot peg.
Also, how are you going to allow for the rubber backed washer on the late model FJ as the washer is recessed.
And finally, see you have both shift levers in your pictures, I just want to make sure you know there are both steel and aluminum shift levers depending on the year of the bike.
I am not sure if you are going to be able to do the mod cheaper than the, as you stated "unobtainium", stainless steel shift bolts I had manufactured. By looking at the price of just the two ball joints you installed, you are just a few bucks cheaper and you still have not addressed the shifter pivot parts and the labor you are going to put into completing the modification.
I hope you get it all sorted, just remember you have different model years and slight differences in the shifter pivot bolt and foot peg mounting.
Randy - RPM
It's all sorted Randy. Check your mail.
The bearings are Stainless outers with a chromoly inner race to handle the load.
It'll hold and I didn't have to resort to cheap chinese crap. :wacko1:
Well shoot, it wouldn't let me modify my post.
I said I can't get stuff "made" in the USA anymore. As in made to my specs.
And you're exactly right. The biggest design issue is just making sure that that shim, bearing race, spacer, and washer stack can bear the required loads reliably without exploding. If you used cheap off the shelf bearings I really doubt that they would hold up.
It is critical that those inner races and the spacer hold because, at 24ft# of torque, that 8mm bolt is generating a compression force of about 4500#. With the hardware in the middle that's about 64,951.72 PSI that needs to be withstood. Mild steel yields at 36000PSI and has an ultimate strength of about 58000PSI. If you torque the bolt to 20ft# you can get away with mild steel. But if you want the full torque you need to use grade 5 or class 8.8 hardware respectively. Especially when you consider the bending loads on the bolt.
The bolt is a simple, commonly available class 12.9 socket head bolt. Just for extra security seeing as it's yield strength is around 159,500 PSI. About $1.75 at the local hardware store. Fortunately some of the bending loads will be mitigated by the arrangement of the washers on the footpeg side. (if the rubber backed washer is retained it's recess will be filled with 8mm id shims.)
The only real critical part fitment wise is the center shim between the bearings. Too big, and it won't grab the shifter bore properly. Too short and it'll put too much side load on the bearings. This is what I have to play around with verify the concept.
I guess the proof will be in the pudding though. When I get my bearings in and bolt it all together I'll be able to see if it works. :yahoo:
(I can't wait)
Quote from: skymasteres on October 11, 2013, 10:00:14 PM
I said I can't get stuff "made" in the USA anymore. As in made to my specs.
And you're exactly right. The biggest design issue is just making sure that that shim, bearing race, spacer, and washer stack can bear the required loads reliably without exploding. If you used cheap off the shelf bearings I really doubt that they would hold up.
It is critical that those inner races and the spacer hold because, at 24ft# of torque, that 8mm bolt is generating a compression force of about 4500#. With the hardware in the middle that's about 64,951.72 PSI that needs to be withstood. Mild steel yields at 36000PSI and has an ultimate strength of about 58000PSI. If you torque the bolt to 20ft# you can get away with mild steel. But if you want the full torque you need to use grade 5 or class 8.8 hardware respectively. Especially when you consider the bending loads on the bolt.
The bolt is a simple, commonly available class 12.9 socket head bolt. Just for extra security seeing as it's yield strength is around 159,500 PSI. About $1.75 at the local hardware store. Fortunately some of the bending loads will be mitigated by the arrangement of the washers on the footpeg side. (if the rubber backed washer is retained it's recess will be filled with 8mm id shims.)
The only real critical part fitment wise is the center shim between the bearings. Too big, and it won't grab the shifter bore properly. Too short and it'll put too much side load on the bearings. This is what I have to play around with verify the concept.
I guess the proof will be in the pudding though. :yahoo:
(I can't wait)
Arnie understands and in fact taught us a lot about the talk rating of the gear lever assembly at the 2012 Aussie Rally. In fact he was an award recipient as a result of his efforts. He may chime in, but I have an idea he would dispute the yield strength requirement... :sorry: :bad: :pardon: :bye2:
Quote from: The General on October 11, 2013, 11:21:57 PM
Arnie understands and in fact taught us a lot about the talk rating of the gear lever assembly at the 2012 Aussie Rally. In fact he was an award recipient as a result of his efforts. He may chime in, but I have an idea he would dispute the yield strength requirement... :sorry: :bad: :pardon: :bye2:
Well, here you get into the nuances of what different engineers are willing to accept.
I make no claims to being smarter than anyone here. That's why I always post everything so that people can make their own determination.
I actually relish learning new things. So if anyone else has input on my perception of what the strength requirements are, do chime in. :pardon:
You're right about my "requirement" for yield strength being on the high side.
When a metal yields it goes through a hardening process. This is why when you look at stress and strain graphs you see a characteristic vertical rise until you get to the yield point (Or elastic limit if you prefer). Then there is a slight drop in stress as the material yields followed by another slanted rise as the metal hardens before it reaches it's ultimate strength. The curve will flatten out when the ultimate strength is met and the strain continues to increase before the metal fails.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/Engine%20Theory/StressStrainCurve_zpscf8b1aed.gif)
A couple factors that influence the shape of this curve are ductility and strength of the material.
I only wanted to stay out of the yielding zone because it would require re-torquing of the pivot bolt after the material yields. (Well that and I don't have a lot of "feel" for how the metal well behave in that range)
Heck, it might still be necessary if a large transient load is experienced. (Like standing on the footpegs. Hence the need for some testing) :biggrin:
On a side note, for the other penny pinchers like myself, an acceptable solution for eliminating a great deal
of play in the shifter pivot is to use aluminum foil to make up the difference. Make sure you clean the bolt
with acetone first then take a 3/4" wide x 2-3" strip of aluminum foil, spray the back with some contact
adhesive, wait for it to dry, and roll it carefully around the pivot bolt counter clockwise. Burnish it well and
grease before reinstalling the shifter.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/skymasteres/Motorcycles/FJ1200%20Rebuild/Modifications/13818598948703_zps6b743823.jpg)
It's lasted a week so far, but I doubt it's a long term solution. But it did serve to demonstrate exactly how
much improvement there was to be had in the mechanism. (The missing strip was inside the shifter bushing)
:biggrin: