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General Category => Maintenance => Topic started by: mtc on April 26, 2020, 08:02:05 PM

Title: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 26, 2020, 08:02:05 PM
i noticed it today, i wiped it off, and it came back

it's above the front axle pinch bolt


is there a nut down there, what size?

can i tighten it to make it go away?

thank you
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: balky1 on April 27, 2020, 12:02:06 AM
Not that easy, but there is a bolt.
First drain the oil, from both legs. Because you don't know how much is left in that leg and how much there is in another one from the PO. A good time to change it anyway.
You have to open the top of your forks and hold the damper rod from turning with a special tool. If you don't do that it will either spin or you will end up breaking damper rod locating bolt. You can make the tool yourself, check the files.
Now, when you remove the axle there is an Allen bolt as I remember. Maybe not Allen, might be a hex nut.... Under that bolt is an alluminum crush washer, I think the same size like on the oil drain plug. I would suggest putting a new one and I believe loctite goes on the threads. That should cure it if everything else is OK.
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 27, 2020, 12:35:24 AM
Quote from: balky1 on April 27, 2020, 12:02:06 AM
Not that easy, but there is a bolt.
First drain the oil, from both legs. Because you don't know how much is left in that leg and how much there is in another one from the PO. A good time to change it anyway.
You have to open the top of your forks and hold the damper rod from turning with a special tool. If you don't do that it will either spin or you will end up breaking damper rod locating bolt. You can make the tool yourself, check the files.
Now, when you remove the axle there is an Allen bolt as I remember. Maybe not Allen, might be a hex nut.... Under that bolt is an alluminum crush washer, I think the same size like on the oil drain plug. I would suggest putting a new one and I believe loctite goes on the threads. That should cure it if everything else is OK.

just did the fluid after i found the leak and changed back to stock springs today, so you are saying i can't just remove the axle and snug the allen bolt a little?

thank you for the help!
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: balky1 on April 27, 2020, 01:37:11 AM
Not recommended. You should hold the damper rod from inside to prevent it from turning.
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 27, 2020, 02:21:41 PM
well the right i was able to move, and left no, and i felt no damper slipping,

i had a 3/8 inch allen wrench that worked, thanks very much, hope it holds
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: Sparky84 on April 28, 2020, 01:32:51 AM
Probably copper washer needs replacing,
they only work once
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: balky1 on April 28, 2020, 04:52:25 AM
Well, of course it didn't turn because the damper rod locating screw was holding it. It is a really small screw that you probably screwed up now.  :biggrin:
If you plan to work on the bike, you need metric tools. Allen screws get striped easily with inadequate tools. Let alone Phillips.
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 01:31:06 PM
Quote from: balky1 on April 28, 2020, 04:52:25 AM
Well, of course it didn't turn because the damper rod locating screw was holding it. It is a really small screw that you probably screwed up now.  :biggrin:
If you plan to work on the bike, you need metric tools. Allen screws get striped easily with inadequate tools. Let alone Phillips.

well didn't know much about that part, that is why i am asking here.....where is the set screw, is it the little screw behind the drain screw, but a little higher?, I simply didn't know

if i take that out will forks leak?



the 3/8 felt real tight, i used what i had, i have plenty of metric tools just not that one, it was a perfect fit

it's still leaking now what? thank you again
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: Sparky84 on April 28, 2020, 01:32:51 AM
Probably copper washer needs replacing,
they only work once

can it be tightened without major disassembly?
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
In order to replace the copper washer the fork must be disassemled as you have to hold the damper rod internally to loosen and tighten it. This 10mm (or 3/8") allen that you used is the bolt that is sealed by the copper washer.
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: balky1 on April 28, 2020, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: mtc on April 28, 2020, 01:31:06 PM
Quote from: balky1 on April 28, 2020, 04:52:25 AM
Well, of course it didn't turn because the damper rod locating screw was holding it. It is a really small screw that you probably screwed up now.  :biggrin:
If you plan to work on the bike, you need metric tools. Allen screws get striped easily with inadequate tools. Let alone Phillips.

well didn't know much about that part, that is why i am asking here.....where is the set screw, is it the little screw behind the drain screw, but a little higher?, I simply didn't know

if i take that out will forks leak?



the 3/8 felt real tight, i used what i had, i have plenty of metric tools just not that one, it was a perfect fit

it's still leaking now what? thank you again


Yes and yes. The thing you are doing here is the same like you are trying to tighten the engine oil drain plug some more to prevent leaking. I suppose you wouldn't do that. So no point in doing it here either. As much it is a PIA to do the same thing twice in a row, it is the only course of actions to do it right and be done with it. With a new crush washer.
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
In order to replace the copper washer the fork must be disassemled as you have to hold the damper rod internally to loosen and tighten it. This 10mm (or 3/8") allen that you used is the bolt that is sealed by the copper washer.
any pictures, it's dark down there and far away to see anything

what is the tool to "hold" this damper is this it?
https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder)

how long of an extension to get it down there?
do i need a vise? or just the work bench?

why would the washer suddenly leak?if it's a crush washer, can't i just try to tighten it some more?

i don't want  sound like a stupid person,
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 03:49:38 PM
Yup that is the tool. You need about 17" of extension to clear the top of the fork tube with the tube all the way down.

This is the copper washer. http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CopperForkGasket (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CopperForkGasket)

I'm not even going to try and venture to why it is leaking as I don't know what was done and by who. Without having them in hand I wouldn't be able to guess accurately. Was the bolt loose to begin with, is the leg cracked (haven't seen it), who worked on them, did they over tighten it already, was the washer reused previously, did someone put an extra washer in there  (yes I have seen it), is it leaking from somewhere else?

No I would not try and tighten it more. It is a steel bolt into aluminum threads. Keep torquing it tighter and tighter and you are likely to pull the threads out then you are into a whole different can of worms.

You can likely do it on the bench with no vise but we have a special fork tube vise. I would also not put them directly in a standard vice as you are likely to gouge them up and ruin them. Aluminum soft jaws in a standard vise will work but again you need to be very careful about over tightening it to hold it and crushing the tube.

You will lose all the oil so drain them first. If not you will have a mess on your hands.
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 03:49:38 PM
Yup that is the tool. You need about 17" of extension to clear the top of the fork tube with the tube all the way down.

This is the copper washer. http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CopperForkGasket (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CopperForkGasket)

I'm not even going to try and venture to why it is leaking as I don't know what was done and by who. Without having them in hand I wouldn't be able to guess accurately. Is the leg cracked, who worked on them, did they over tighten it already was the washer reused previously, did someone put an extra washer in there  ( yes I have seen it), is it leaking from somewhere else?

No I would not try and tighten it more. It is a steel bolt into aluminum threads. Keep torquing it tighter and tighter and you are likely to pull the threads out then you are into a whole different can of worms.

You can likely do it on the bench with no vise but we have a special fork tube vise. I would also not put them directly in a standard vice as you are likely to gouge them up and ruin them. Aluminum soft jaws in a standard vise will work but again you need to be very careful about over tightening it to hold it and crushing the tube.

You will lose all the oil so drain them first. If not you will have a mess on your hands.


thanks, it suddenly started leaking, i have the bike for a year with minimal riding,


i was reading a little

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=17417.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=17417.0)

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4967.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4967.0)

i was reading but i could not find it again that to install thr dampening adjuster on top has to index with the damper? how is that done?
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
this one has a word document with lots of pics

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0)
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: FJmonkey on April 28, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
The proper alignment starts at the bottom of the forks. The screw/fastener with the pin must have the pin still in place. Some oil will leak out but you can remove the screw and see if the pin portion is still in place. If the pin has been bent or sheared off then time for a new one. With the forks apart, you will see the bottom of the fork internals have a slot. This slot allows the internals to sit with the forks rotated in the proper position over that pin. This is also why you need to hold the fork internals when you tighten the bolt at the bottom. Not holding the fork internals will likely bend or shear off the pin. Do you have a manual to help understand the assembly?
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 05:07:33 PM
Quote from: mtc on April 28, 2020, 04:25:30 PM
this one has a word document with lots of pics

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0)

this one has a word document with lots of pics, so it clearer to me

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1911.0)

remove adjuster cap , preload tube, washer and spring

steady bike on  center stand and jack/ shift weight of bike to rear


i don't have to take it all apart, shove the "tool" which i have the 27mm bolt already to hold it, after draining out fluid.


take nut off, replace washer and hex bolt while assuring the rod rod is indexed via a screw or well fitting drift pin to

27 ft lbs

reverse process and

HOPE

it's not what you call a crack somewhere ( which is hard for me to think happened)
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 28, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
The proper alignment starts at the bottom of the forks. The screw/fastener with the pin must have the pin still in place. Some oil will leak out but you can remove the screw and see if the pin portion is still in place. If the pin has been bent or sheared off then time for a new one. With the forks apart, you will see the bottom of the fork internals have a slot. This slot allows the internals to sit with the forks rotated in the proper position over that pin. This is also why you need to hold the fork internals when you tighten the bolt at the bottom. Not holding the fork internals will likely bend or shear off the pin. Do you have a manual to help understand the assembly?

no manual
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: Sparky84 on April 28, 2020, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: mtc on April 28, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
In order to replace the copper washer the fork must be disassemled as you have to hold the damper rod internally to loosen and tighten it. This 10mm (or 3/8") allen that you used is the bolt that is sealed by the copper washer.
any pictures, it's dark down there and far away to see anything

what is the tool to "hold" this damper is this it?
https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder)

how long of an extension to get it down there?
do i need a vise? or just the work bench?

why would the washer suddenly leak?if it's a crush washer, can't i just try to tighten it some more?

i don't want  sound like a stupid person,
This is how I was able to hold to undo and tighten, I stood on the unistrut and the unistrut held my T bar
Could also tie the T bar to something long and stand on it.
I can post pages of manual showing fork disassembly, if you need them

Fork was inverted of course.
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 05:53:10 PM
Quote from: Sparky84 on April 28, 2020, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: mtc on April 28, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
In order to replace the copper washer the fork must be disassemled as you have to hold the damper rod internally to loosen and tighten it. This 10mm (or 3/8") allen that you used is the bolt that is sealed by the copper washer.
any pictures, it's dark down there and far away to see anything

what is the tool to "hold" this damper is this it?
https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder (https://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=27mmForkHolder)

how long of an extension to get it down there?
do i need a vise? or just the work bench?

why would the washer suddenly leak?if it's a crush washer, can't i just try to tighten it some more?

i don't want  sound like a stupid person,
This is how I was able to hold to undo and tighten, I stood on the unistrut and the unistrut held my T bar
Could also tie the T bar to something long and stand on it.
I can post pages of manual showing fork disassembly, if you need them

Fork was inverted of course.

thank you very much

but i don't want to strip it down that far

just drain the oil and leave the forks on the bike, to just change the leaky washer, everything else on it is fine

if i don't have a helper i could, tie the rachet on top to the frame, just enough to crack the bolt on the bottom,
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 06:15:28 PM
It will literally take you 5 extra minutes to remove and re install the entire fork leg and make it easier to work on, or at least it should only take you that long.

Advice given. I'll slip back to the campfire and enjoy the popcorn.
(popcorn)
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 28, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
The proper alignment starts at the bottom of the forks. The screw/fastener with the pin must have the pin still in place. Some oil will leak out but you can remove the screw and see if the pin portion is still in place. If the pin has been bent or sheared off then time for a new one. With the forks apart, you will see the bottom of the fork internals have a slot. This slot allows the internals to sit with the forks rotated in the proper position over that pin. This is also why you need to hold the fork internals when you tighten the bolt at the bottom. Not holding the fork internals will likely bend or shear off the pin. Do you have a manual to help understand the assembly?
thanks Mark
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 06:42:19 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on April 28, 2020, 06:15:28 PM
It will literally take you 5 extra minutes to remove and re install the entire fork leg and make it easier to work on, or at least it should only take you that long.

Advice given. I'll slip back to the campfire and enjoy the popcorn.
(popcorn)

trying to leave the brake caliper and on and not have to clock the fork afterwards
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on April 28, 2020, 07:20:46 PM
anything i can use here?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=copper+washer&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=copper+washer (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=copper+washer&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=copper+washer)


m10?
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on May 02, 2020, 01:46:13 PM
well i mickey moused a 27mm bolt and was not torque to tight, i looked at the crush washer and it was warped but not crushed at all, i think flipping it the other way would seal it, gone put it back , do a short fill and see if it holds

also

looks like a bit of marring on the bottom of the damper, i think the irregularities and allowing the leak, some yahoo, bounced it on a rough hard surface


copper crush washer, if anyone want to know

20mm os dia.
14mm is dia.
1mm thick

and i have to get a smaller front fender, i took it off and the FJ looks like it lost some weight,( what  a sexy girl!) the old fender was nearly hanging on with all the tabs cracked, bye bye trust me on this one
Title: Re: right fork bottom leaking
Post by: mtc on May 02, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
Quote from: mtc on May 02, 2020, 01:46:13 PM
well i mickey moused a 27mm bolt and was not torque to tight, i looked at the crush washer and it was warped but not crushed at all, i think flipping it the other way would seal it, gone put it back , do a short fill and see if it holds

also

looks like a bit of marring on the bottom of the damper, i think the irregularities and allowing the leak, some yahoo, bounced it on a rough hard surface


copper crush washer, if anyone want to know

20mm os dia.
14mm is dia.
1mm thick

and i have to get a smaller front fender, i took it off and the FJ looks like it lost some weight,( what  a sexy girl!) the old fender was nearly hanging on with all the tabs cracked, bye bye trust me on this one


my bad, it's the tube to washer surface that is boogered