and how do you easily free the carb from the throttle cable on this 92?
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3697/811932485_jp53E-L.jpg)
rotate the butterflys by hand until the cable dowel comes around where you can get to it.
take the cables out of the holder (on top of the carbs) and it will make things much easier both for removal and install
Frank
:good2: yep Frank that did the trick (along with a nice pair of clamping forceps from nursy wife which are now part of my tool kit). Somehow I was under the impression that the throttle cable was all one piece and that I needed to remove the whole frame/throttle body pins to loop it out. I'm glad I asked. Now I can proceed to page 2 of 10 in David's instructions...
so Day 1 remove carbs: Since I couldn't easily rotate the subframe and remove the air box due to my Givi side/top racks being all hooked into that subframe, I basically removed the air filter, popped in the rubber carb joints which gave me plenty of room to remove the carb assy. Already I noticed that the air filter needs serious cleaning/replacement and gas line filter was filled with teaspoon of sandy sediment and watery gas; that can't have been good!
Clamping forcepts = Hemostats. Also useful to fishermen.
Just be careful in there. Carbs are actually made of a metal called "butter" and it's easy to break shit.
Thanks for that Andy, and mindful of this
Day 2: David's tome says disassemble 16 screws to remove covers.
Screw 1: won't budge, squirt all screws with loosener; tap all screws; screws 1, 2, 3, 4 ....16 won't budge; squirt again; tap again; won't budge. Tentitavely try impact screwdriver on a few with no effect. And there are what 60+ screws on this suckers? And what happens if I snap the head off these screws? It's going to be a long haul. I need to start twittering on this process so you can get every single important moment of this event....
Maybe I need to be more forceful and less fearful
Quote from: fjrpierre on March 17, 2010, 02:08:45 PM
Thanks for that Andy, and mindful of this
Day 2: David's tome says disassemble 16 screws to remove covers.
Screw 1: won't budge, squirt all screws with loosener; tap all screws; screws 1, 2, 3, 4 ....16 won't budge; squirt again; tap again; won't budge. Tentitavely try impact screwdriver on a few with no effect. And there are what 60+ screws on this suckers? And what happens if I snap the head off these screws? It's going to be a long haul. I need to start twittering on this process so you can get every single important moment of this event....
Maybe I need to be more forceful and less fearful
''
Pierre,
I have had to use vise grips on the soft screw heads to get them out .... you do have David's screw kit ready to replace them all dont cha?
Frank
When I did this, I found that the right screw driver made a huge difference. Of all the screws there were only maybe 2 that needed the vice-grip treatment. You really MUST get David's replacement screw kit though, it'll make doing this again in a few years MUCH easier...
Dan
tweet tweet yep I have Davids' kit beside me, and some "good" screwdrivers. And with a few more squirts AND a little more forceful and careful use of an impact screwdriver, I was able to free all the major stuff and have one carb ready to actually clean. I notice 3 of the 4 diaphrams each have one or 2 tiny piny holes near where they fold a bit near the edge; the rest of the diaphram is nice and solid. Not sure if thats acceptable or needs a repair.
Time for a beer, a Canadian beer eh!
Quote from: fjrpierre on March 17, 2010, 04:57:15 PM
Not sure if thats acceptable or needs a repair.
Time for a beer, a Canadian beer eh!
Using a cotton bud (q-tip I think they are called over your side of the Pacific) apply a couple of coats of a mixture of 1/2 and 1/2 plasti-dip and naptha to the holes to seal them.
http://www.plastidip.com/ (http://www.plastidip.com/)
Moosehead?
Harvy
Harvy,
Where in Oz did you find Plasti-Dip ? I've used it back when I was in the US, but haven't seen it for sale here.
Cheers,
Arnie
Quote from: Arnie on March 17, 2010, 07:58:55 PM
Harvy,
Where in Oz did you find Plasti-Dip ? I've used it back when I was in the US, but haven't seen it for sale here.
Cheers,
Arnie
Arnie....just the one stockist listed for Victoria:
http://www.plastidip.net.au/index.php?module=Website&action=Text&content=1162600277671-8164&parentContent=1160805421953-7851 (http://www.plastidip.net.au/index.php?module=Website&action=Text&content=1162600277671-8164&parentContent=1160805421953-7851)
Harvy
Day 3 (hey I have a life eh!) So I take the float bowl off my first carb and disassemble everything and what a mess.
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3715/814006340_8K5HP-L.jpg)
Tell me this is normal please!!! (how can the bike even run with this crap there? Talk about clogged arteries!?)
Also how do I get the throttle spring assy off. My inclination is to remove the butterfly, remove the circ clip and slid shaft out?
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3716/814006488_6D6gA-L.jpg)
and what is that brass screw beside the assy I've not yet touched (and what about that brassy long tube still sticking out?)
Pretty normal stuff.
The stuff at the filter screen is from the tank. The chalky deposits on the emulsion tube are from fuel deterioration as there is a small amount of fuel that is trapped in that area and cannot go anywhere.
No need to remove the spring. If you were to remove the spring you would have to remove the throttle plate like you stated, which is not necessary.
The screw is the W.O.T. stop, not need to remove. The brass tube is part of the choke enrichment circuit; also no need to remove.
Randy - RPM
Nah.. that's nothing..Try working on these.. Bike sat for 10+ years with a full tank of fuel..which was just a small amount of varnish by the time we got it.. Amazing enough after cleaning the carbs, bike started and ran.. but the piston rings were stuck with varnish also..
(http://www.fjrally.com/picgallery/gallery%2FMisc%5FFJ%5FPhotos%2Fcarb3%2Ejpg)
(http://www.fjrally.com/picgallery/gallery%2FMisc%5FFJ%5FPhotos%2Fcarb4%2Ejpg)
(http://www.fjrally.com/picgallery/gallery%2FMisc%5FFJ%5FPhotos%2Fcarb2%2Ejpg)
Garth, Im pretty sure thats the worst looking carb I have ever seen.
Eric M
An ultrasonic cleaner will bust all of the junk out of your carbs and loosen a lot of stuck hardware. I wish I had taken pictures of some carbs that were brought to me. Ugly nasty things. Rotten gas smelled up my shed for weeks. The cleaners will bust up the junk in even the smallest passages and the solutions will not eat up the throttle shaft seals. Harbor Freight has a good selection of inexpensive units, go for the most powerful and largest capacity unit.
If you get one cozy up to one of the Amway folks and get some L.O.C. and use that for your bath.
Then blow out everything with compressed air and reassemble.
Day 4 everything clean and being reassemble. couple of questions...
Q1 My kit comes with 6 larger fuel o rings and i have the following fuel connectors between carbs ( total 12 on the three metal connectors and and total 4 on the two plastic connectors). Am I missing something or should I just go buy some more?
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3719/818751121_SiZ7r-L.jpg)
Q2 on removing one of the idle screw assy needles the tiny gasket at the bottom is partialy damaged. Any thoughts? (like use gasket goo to glue the little broken piece back on or ???
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3722/818750978_674QB-L.jpg)
Dunno Eric, we've heard stories from you east coast folks about Dean's old FJ.....
Quote from: Yamifj1200 on March 21, 2010, 09:59:43 AM
Garth, Im pretty sure thats the worst looking carb I have ever seen.
Eric M
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 24, 2010, 10:20:08 PM
Dunno Eric, we've heard stories from you east coast folks about Dean's old FJ.....
Well, this one time at the FJ Rally...
(http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu159/rktmanfj/DeanhavingCarbproblemsagain.jpg) (http://s643.photobucket.com/albums/uu159/rktmanfj/?action=view¤t=DeanhavingCarbproblemsagain.jpg)
Pierre,
How old is your carb kit? In the last few years, I have included new o-rings for the idle mixture screws. Send me your address and I'll put a set in an envelope for you.
The transfer tube and breather o-rings are usually in fairly good condition. Since the fuel transfer tubes have double o-rings, and to keep cost down, I only include 6 o-rings and recommend that if any of them need replaced to use the new o-rings in the first groove on the tube. The breather (plastic) tees are not that critical. If any of them need replacement, then move one from the transfer tube and replace with a new o-ring.
Or, I'll gladly add 6 more to the envelope if you want to wait on it.
DavidR.
d-raforth@raytheon.com
Thanks Dave that explains the o rings and yes I now notice the little tiny o rings for the idle mixture screws that you did include! (whew that saves me some heartache) :i_am_so_happy:
And those bits I had left over, the tiny headless hex bolts; on closer inspection I now figured out are to replace the 4 little choke screws!
I also notice you included 8 replacement bolts for the slide needle plate bolts w lock washers, but removing these are not mentioned in the cleaning instructions. Is there any "cleaning" reason for me to take that bit apart?
So all is well parts wise and I just need to reinstall on the bike and do the adjustments. Your bench sync instructions taught me what a real sync does...I love it when a plan comes together!
Quote from: fjrpierre on March 25, 2010, 04:42:23 PM
I also notice you included 8 replacement bolts for the slide needle plate bolts w lock washers, but removing these are not mentioned in the cleaning instructions. Is there any "cleaning" reason for me to take that bit apart?
Pierre,
Unless the needles are corroded or extremely dirty, there's no "cleaning" need to disassemble the slide.
However, being that you own a Canadian unit with adjustable slide needles, if you did any needle position experimentation, you'd find that the phillips head screws on the slide plate are just as easy to strip as the others. In fact, they are so small that they appear to be a #1 phillips size. In reality, they are a #2 phillips size and inadvertently using a #1 screwdriver will strip them real quick (not that I ever did it, at least not twice :-)).
So, take a little extra time and install the 8 allen heads (and lockwashers) in there "just in case." Otherwise you'll probably misplace them by next week. :-)
DavidR.
>>>(So, take a little extra time and install the 8 allen heads (and lockwashers) in there "just in case." Otherwise you'll probably misplace them by next week. :-)
done; the misplacing arguement was the clincher. (And the tip on the #2 philips, not a #1 was right on!)
Day 5 I'm reinstalling carb on the bike and have a few question (don't you know). So there are 7 lines to reconnect, the braided fuel line, 4 bundled (vacuum?) lines each connected to a tube at the bottom rear of carb by the lower bracket and two (breather?) lines connected to the plastic tees. I've numbered each on disassembly so I think I know where each goes.
Assuming that's right, where do you eventually connect the vacuum tubes of your carb sync tool? It's looks a pain/impossible to disconnect the vacuum lines/connect the syn lines when the carb is back in its operational position. What am I missing?
Pierre,
You connnect you vacuum guages to the vacuum taps that are on the intake manifolds. Each of them has a rubber cap with a clamping spring around it. First remove the clamp and then pull the rubber cap off. They are very easy to get to once you've removed the fuel tank and seat.
I think the early FJ's may have used one of these for the fuel petcock vacuum supply
Hope that helps,
Arnie
well doh!!! :crazy: Look and ye shall see...
Thanks
Those 4 bundled hoses supply "bleed air" into the choke (enrichener) circuit.
Make sure they are not clogged up. Also make sure all 6 of the hoses are routed SMOOTHLY around the side of the heat shield and DOWN into the hoop on the back of the engine case. If any of these hoses runs "uphill" then fuel or other debris will obstruct them and cause a variety of difficult to diagnose ills.
DavidR.
day 5 1/2 all back together and hooked up to a temp tank. When I cycled the run button several times, to cycle the pump to help it fill up those nooks and cranny in those nice clean carbs, I get fuel running out of one of the six tubes, one of the bigger ones connected to the plastic joints.
So I packed it in for the night. Is fuel coming out like that a natural reaction to cycling the pump half a dozen times or so, or some other worses problem. :diablo:
Float's stuck. Common problem when you put them back on. Just beat them with a mallet a bit and it should clear up.
What Andy said!
I've had that happen a lot after a rebuild. It's just a stuck float. Hopefully it will have fixed itself by the time you try it again.
DavidR.
A good solid wheelie from 3k to 9k, bottle out and let it hit the deck hard, or drive off a curb (speedbumps at speed work in a pinch) will also sort it out.
That can also fix a bike that starts bogging down and running pig rich after a +145mph blast when the slide(s) stick in the raised position.
Don't ask. :crazy:
ah hell you were too late with the wheelie advice; i used a long thin piece of hardword and a mallet and tapped each bowl gently as you suggested and voila no more overflow/leak. she's now idling properly and am about to do the sync.
Now you know for the future!!
While you're at it, you obviously have sticky carbs (you poor sod). It's possible for the slide assembly to stick in an UP position, which causes horrible drivability as the motor goes pig rich and farts and stumbles a lot due to the excess fuel. This condition is caused by a lack of lubricity between the slide assembly and the carberator body. The only good way to check for this condition is to put the carbs in an extended session with the needles fully raised and see if they retract correctly.
In summary, take that bitch out and wind it up until you see 155 on the dial. After you come down to a stop, if it won't idle for crap, you'll need to wheelie it to reset the carbs to a functioning condition.
(maybe once you're home you can put some oil on the slides....)
-andyb
giving unsafe advice since 2005
ok someone walk me through this
bike idles more or less 1k
idle screws 2 1/2 back
homemade syn tool hooked up to 4 ports
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3745/825867595_WYe56-L.jpg)
at rest the liquid sits nicely at th bottom
on startup
#1 tube is full, the rest empty (so much for my bench sync skills)
by fiddling with the syn adjust screws i can get the liquid to move to fill #3 or #4 but i cant get liquid in all 4 tubes...
how do i reestablish a baseline at the syn adjust screws so as to get liquid in all 4 tubes while its running , and then
ok i thought that my homemade sync tool was not holding vacuum properly so i borrowed a morgan carbtune, the queen of the manometers. Hooked it up and presto, strong reading on #1 and nil on rest. played fo several hours with the adjustments and managed to get readings on #1,2 and 3 but nada on #4. Used my last life and called a friend who told me to keep the idle high at all times and keep trying a wide range of adjustments on #4. Finally got a reading on #4 and all the others stabilised suddenly and I was able to sync 1-2 and 3-4 and then the set.
One minute chaos and a weird running bike; the next minute calm and smoothness....
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3746/826883843_Gnzsp-L.jpg)
I kept iterating and it eventually sounded so good I buttoned it up, reinstalled everything, got my gear on and went for a ride (after I took the gas tank off one more time to set the fuel petcock correctly so it would actually start with the tank on :diablo:). It hasn't run this well in years; no surging, no stumble, even the vibes seem less.
Thanks for all your help guys; I couldn't have done it without you (and especially David's kit and instructions)!
Quote from: fjrpierre on April 03, 2010, 09:54:50 PM
One minute chaos and a weird running bike; the next minute calm and smoothness....
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3746/826883843_Gnzsp-L.jpg)
Quote
Well done Pierre,
that right there is the look of satisfaction! :good2:
it's all not so much a mystery now is it ?
KOokaloo!
Frank
Pierre,
Now you know how to sync the carbs, you'll find that you do it every time you remove the tank.
Takes only a couple of minutes and makes so much difference.
Congratulations,
Arnie
(sorry, minor thread hijacking in progress)
holy crap, pierre, you've lost a crapload of weight! you're a lean mean fj machine!
Quote from: fjrpierre on April 03, 2010, 09:54:50 PM
ok i thought that my homemade sync tool was not holding vacuum properly so i borrowed a morgan carbtune, the queen of the manometers. Hooked it up and presto, strong reading on #1 and nil on rest. played fo several hours with the adjustments and managed to get readings on #1,2 and 3 but nada on #4. Used my last life and called a friend who told me to keep the idle high at all times and keep trying a wide range of adjustments on #4. Finally got a reading on #4 and all the others stabilised suddenly and I was able to sync 1-2 and 3-4 and then the set.
One minute chaos and a weird running bike; the next minute calm and smoothness....
(http://fjrpierre.smugmug.com/Other/carb-hell/IMG3746/826883843_Gnzsp-L.jpg)
I kept iterating and it eventually sounded so good I buttoned it up, reinstalled everything, got my gear on and went for a ride (after I took the gas tank off one more time to set the fuel petcock correctly so it would actually start with the tank on :diablo:). It hasn't run this well in years; no surging, no stumble, even the vibes seem less.
Thanks for all your help guys; I couldn't have done it without you (and especially David's kit and instructions)!
actually it's a well known FJ mod; my power to weight ratio went from 1: 7.3 to 1: 6.5 or on increase of roughly 15 HP! So my FJ is running 145HP ! The beauty of this mod is that it carrys over somehow to any bike you ride; my FJR is now running 160HP FJR :yahoo:
Quote from: mst3kguy on April 04, 2010, 09:06:08 AM
(sorry, minor thread hijacking in progress)
holy crap, pierre, you've lost a crapload of weight! you're a lean mean fj machine!
I was thinking exactly the same thing, and we only really met once. The heck with the carb tune, whats the secret to the transformation?
If you still have the carb tune, sync the throttle bodies on your FJR.
tomorrow (along with my other sons YZF1000 :good2:)