I thought I would start a new thread covering the next phase of work being carried out on my 92 FJ12.
Since the Nowra manshed day last year, and to preserve the planet a little longer, I had to plan on removing the cylinder head and replace the worn valve stem seals.
While the head was off it was decided to give it a full overhaul with a very light porting job to blue print what I have been told by tuners are very good cylinder heads.
The work was entrusted to Bruce Woodley at Powerflow in Maude, North Geelong who does all my 2 stroke tuning. The head was despatched before I went to Europe in June and I just picked it up from the post office yesterday. A work of art.
I was going to just re ring the pistons but on advice from others on this forum I shelled out for a 1219 Wiseco piston kit and the block will be dropped off for boring out this weekend, after removing the engine for full strip down and check over. I don't anticipate any other problems but I have a new cam chain and starter parts that I may as well fit while its at this stage.
As usually happens when a bike is this far down, the frame may go and be powder coated, along with the subframe............. :crazy:
So thats where it is at the moment. Photos to follow.
That's why I don't even like to start messing with it. Once you get there, "well, I should replace that also, and that, and that and that...." :lol:
Quote from: FJools on July 20, 2016, 05:03:16 PM
I thought I would start a new thread covering the next phase of work being carried out on my 92 FJ12.
While the head was off it was decided to give it a full overhaul with a very light porting job to blue print what I have been told by tuners are very good cylinder heads.
The work was entrusted to Bruce Woodley at Powerflow in Maude, North Geelong who does all my 2 stroke tuning. The head was dispatched before I went to Europe in June and I just picked it up from the post office yesterday. A work of art.
I was going to just re ring the pistons but on advice from others on this forum I shelled out for a 1219 Wiseco piston kit and the block will be dropped off for boring out this weekend, after removing the engine for full strip down and check over. I don't anticipate any other problems but I have a new cam chain and starter parts that I may as well fit while its at this stage.
As usually happens when a bike is this far down, the frame may go and be powder coated, along with the subframe............. :crazy:
Thanks for the update Jools. Yes, having an engine in bits is a slippery slope.
I take it you have never visited the premises of Bruce Woodley. Maude is a farming area out of Geelong, the post office closed in the 1950's and North Geelong is just it's postal address, . If Arnie was still on the forum he would have jumped on you, it's only 11km's from his place (in the country).
I will get in touch with Bruce, I have a head with valves leaking like sieves and was giving some thought to porting while I was at it (slippery slope) but couldn't find anyone with a reliable referral.
For what it's worth, I have a 1219 engine that I don't use but I remember one cylinder is bored smaller than the others. The machine shop told me this was not uncommon with Wiseco pistons which is why they always measure each piston before they start boring. It came back with texta all over the piston and cylinder just to make sure I didn't put it in the wrong hole.
Can't hurt to mention this to the machine shop.
The first time I picked up a Wiseco piston it's lightness was obvious, the difference so great I had to go and weigh them. I forget the figure now but they are way lighter than original pistons to the point you can feel it in the running motor.
I also found the cam timing to be off a bit and installed adjustable sprockets to return the cam timing to spec. That engine was much livelier than the one I'm running now.
As for the frame, you see so little of it when assembled I don't see the point of going to all that expense and trouble (IMO)
Jools, all this engine talk is fine, but the really important question is will it be going in time for the manshed day in Bermagui?
It would be great to catch up with there. Unlike Nowra, the "dyno" might just be a lonely stretch of road somewhere.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on July 21, 2016, 10:26:05 AM
Jools, all this engine talk is fine, but the really important question is will it be going in time for the manshed day in Bermagui?
It would be great to catch up with there. Unlike Nowra, the "dyno"
might just be is a lonely stretch of road somewhere.
Noel
[/quote]
Quote from: balky1 on July 21, 2016, 07:21:40 AM
That's why I don't even like to start messing with it. Once you get there, "well, I should replace that also, and that, and that and that...." :lol:
I'm a sucker for it............ :dash1:
Quote from: ribbert on July 21, 2016, 10:26:05 AM
Thanks for the update Jools. Yes, having an engine in bits is a slippery slope.
I take it you have never visited the premises of Bruce Woodley. Maude is a farming area out of Geelong, the post office closed in the 1950's and North Geelong is just it's postal address, . If Arnie was still on the forum he would have jumped on you, it's only 11km's from his place (in the country).
I will get in touch with Bruce, I have a head with valves leaking like sieves and was giving some thought to porting while I was at it (slippery slope) but couldn't find anyone with a reliable referral.
For what it's worth, I have a 1219 engine that I don't use but I remember one cylinder is bored smaller than the others. The machine shop told me this was not uncommon with Wiseco pistons which is why they always measure each piston before they start boring. It came back with texta all over the piston and cylinder just to make sure I didn't put it in the wrong hole.
Can't hurt to mention this to the machine shop.
The first time I picked up a Wiseco piston it's lightness was obvious, the difference so great I had to go and weigh them. I forget the figure now but they are way lighter than original pistons to the point you can feel it in the running motor.
I also found the cam timing to be off a bit and installed adjustable sprockets to return the cam timing to spec. That engine was much livelier than the one I'm running now.
As for the frame, you see so little of it when assembled I don't see the point of going to all that expense and trouble (IMO)
Jools, all this engine talk is fine, but the really important question is will it be going in time for the manshed day in Bermagui?
It would be great to catch up with there. Unlike Nowra, the "dyno" might just be a lonely stretch of road somewhere.
Noel
Noel,
I have been privelidged to be invited around Bruce's pristine surgery on a few occasions. The Nth Geelong reference was just to give the "non locals" a rough idea of the area. He is a bit of a special character and lately he has been choosey in the work he takes on. I was going to have him do the overbore but he is unavailable for most of August.
The frame on removing many of the ancilliary parts is showing its life with some rust patches and repairs that will not allow me to just flash them over with an aerosol, plus its a good way of inspecting for any untoward cracks or damage that could get overlooked. Once done I can forget around it for my lifetime with the bike !
Once the cylinders are done it will just be assembly and finalising that front end (still undecided on the R6 set up or the standard forks) ready for Bermagui. If all else fails I'll be down on the RZ350 :good2:
A couple of photos of the head as returned, with a description of the work carried out.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/IMG_0128_zpspfzqksgp.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/IMG_0128_zpspfzqksgp.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/IMG_0127_zpsf9dldrvc.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/IMG_0127_zpsf9dldrvc.jpg.html)
"It looks fine - the stem seals were leaking steadily, guides in good order,and valves also good, subject to finishing inspecting them all. The head is quite 'grotty' and will benefit from a water blast. It has the remnants of black paint on it - are you going to repaint it, or would you like me to clean off the paint when I bead blast the carbon from ports and chambers?
Work carried out - strip completely and check all parts; tape oilways; degrease and water blast to clean oil and grime; bead blast carbon from chambers and ports, and blast paint,etc from outside surfaces; detail port throats, put curve on floor radius, put radius at inlet manifold edge; do multi angle valve seat machining; face valves including 30 degree angle between tulip and seat on inlet valves; dress head gasket face on surface plate; hot, soapy wash; assemble; return post with signature.
The engine had been burning oil, Julian, so if you are freshening up the pistons and rings, etc it will go like a Swiss watch, as the head has come up, and looks, a treat.
Regards,
Bruce"
Removed the cylinder this morning, it released relatively easily but one of the dowels around cylinder 2 is proving stubborn to remove.
The base gasket is well baked on and is going to need some work too.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7230033_zpstnswledc.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7230033_zpstnswledc.jpg.html)
Here it is plainly evident that some oil was being consumed................
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7230034_zpsrlf5jsvy.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7230034_zpsrlf5jsvy.jpg.html)
Quote from: FJools on July 22, 2016, 08:39:35 PM
Removed the cylinder this morning, it released relatively easily but one of the dowels around cylinder 2 is proving stubborn to remove.
The base gasket is well baked on and is going to need some work too.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7230033_zpstnswledc.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7230033_zpstnswledc.jpg.html)
Jools, that is going to be one very sweet engine.
We might have to pull a plug lead to even the playing field at the manshed weekend.
Noel
:biggrin:
I hope so Noel, but you don't need to worry as I'm relatively sedate on the road - using the track to get the speed out of my system works well for keeping my license in tact - but then I was always a sucker for a good country road.................but that was on lightweight strokers!
I don't expect too much of a gain, more of a return to a good std engine. The head is only cleaned up and blue printed really. maybe a bit more torque from the extra 31cc perhaps.
The chap doing the cylinder bores is picking it up tonight so I need to get the motor & my finger out this weekend.
Managed to get the engine out today. :blum1:
I was quite surprised that the 3XW only appears to have half the engine mounts that the earlier models have..............
The lower rear is not used, neither is the lower front so it only appears to be held in by the upper rear, which has a special bracket bolted to the engine upper top mount to mate up a slave mounting tube with the frame, plus a smilar arrangement at the front via the silentbloc style mounts.........
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7300035_zpsfq2fcvy1.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7300035_zpsfq2fcvy1.jpg.html)
One Engineless frame and...
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7300036_zps3oqkitmh.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7300036_zps3oqkitmh.jpg.html)
A frameless engine :biggrin:
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7300037_zpsrddnj8tc.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7300037_zpsrddnj8tc.jpg.html)
and thirty minutes later....
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7300038_zpsjlg3q2bq.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7300038_zpsjlg3q2bq.jpg.html)
And this is one of the reasons to pull an engine down.....
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7300039_zpswex9pf4f.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7300039_zpswex9pf4f.jpg.html)
Not a good photo but there is a massive chunk of gasket wedged in the strainer :shout:
There was also some smaller bits inside the strainer - not good. And as I haven't changed anything in my ownership that dictated new gaskets its been there a while :scratch_one-s_head:
G'day Jools, good to see that you're making good progress. Pretty simple machines to work on, not too many tricky things to deal with.
Your oil screen looks very clean compared to the state Alf's was in. His was at least 50% blocked with some kind of residue that was very difficult to dislodge.
We have his lower end assembled, head reconditioned, ready to install, just waiting on gaskets and the new timing chain to arrive. His pistons and bores were still well with in the service limits so new std rings and a quick hone were all that it required. About another half day's work on it and it should be ready to roll.
Looking forward to catching up with you in November. Your bike should be a lot more economical and a lot easier to follow once you've finished your rebuild. It'll probably only cost you half as much to ride down here compared to what it cost you to ride to Troy's place. :lol:
Regards. Pete. :drinks:
Hi Pete,
I hope Alf's is a clean assembly.
They are pretty straightforward. I thought I could get away with leaving the oil pump in situ as my circlip pliers were no good for the tiny external clip that holds the gear on but no - The pump shields one of the case bolts :mad: So off to bunnings for a Kingchrome kit but I still had to use the dremel to trim the prongs after all that.
Today the cases got separated. No real issues there just a bit stubborn to separate on the timing side. Triple check all bolts removed and I had to use a light alloy drift up the bolt hole to persuade it to move.
Crank journals are good with no signs of pitting.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7310045_zpsphppvp1c.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7310045_zpsphppvp1c.jpg.html)(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7310045_zpsphppvp1c.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7310045_zpsphppvp1c.jpg.html)
Main bearings shells show some signs of surface wear in places, but no pitting or scoring. So usual dilemma - should I replace these with the same type while I'm in here.......
Top case:
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7310042_zpsabrdu8la.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7310042_zpsabrdu8la.jpg.html)(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7310041_zpsjkpb6wgt.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7310041_zpsjkpb6wgt.jpg.html)
Bottom Case:
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7310043_zpsyneuigxg.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7310043_zpsyneuigxg.jpg.html)(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7310044_zps5ysts43j.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7310044_zps5ysts43j.jpg.html)
Gear clusters on initial inspection look serviceable, but I'll clean them up and do a proper looksee.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P7310047_zpsju4qot6i.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P7310047_zpsju4qot6i.jpg.html)
I was fortunate enough to pick up a NOS camchain for very little dollars from Japan, so this will go in. Looking at the starter chain it should be ok. I have a new damper to fit.
Time to get some Kerosine for the parts washer - stinky day ahead :yahoo:
You're making good progress mate. Looks like it should be ready for the Tathra Dyno test at the end of November.
Keep up the good work rate. Love seeing all those cool pics. :good2: Keep them coming!
Regards, Pete.
Bit of an update to keep this up there....
Top case cleaned and degreased, will probably need a repaint.
Removing one of the engine mount bushes proved troublesome. I resorted to the hydraulic press using several 1/2" extension bars and a clearance socket on the inside, through the RH mount, to provide a support so that the cases were not stressed during the pressing out of the bush. An old piston pin was used between the bush and the hydraulic ram.
It was a fiddly process with only one pair of hands but eventually the pin shifted with a disconcerting bang.
All good though, inner bushes cleaned up and polished and the brass outer bushes lightly cleaned up with an adjustable reamer.
Next is to clean up the bottom crank case.
Having inspected the frame and degreased it I have decided a repaint is not necessary, and will save some time.
The GRP belly pan arrived on Friday. The unit itself looks sturdy and straight but the finish is a bit ordinary - not gel coated as obviously repaired as it came from the mould. some of the underside edge radius are a bit ordinary and will need some dremel work to be 100%.
Its going to be painted so its not a great problem but I was expecting a shiny white gel coat finish for the price.
I won't be able to check exact fit until I have the engine back in and pipes fitted so will reserve further comment.
Quote from: FJools on August 07, 2016, 07:59:51 PM
Removing one of the engine mount bushes proved troublesome......... eventually the pin shifted with a disconcerting bang.
Haha, I know that "bang"
Jools, this is only a couple of minute job with the engine out and well worth while (and cheap)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_z.jpg)
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on August 08, 2016, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: FJools on August 07, 2016, 07:59:51 PM
Removing one of the engine mount bushes proved troublesome......... eventually the pin shifted with a disconcerting bang.
Haha, I know that "bang"
Jools, this is only a couple of minute job with the engine out and well worth while (and cheap)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_z.jpg)
Noel
Did anyone ever installed a grease nipple on a swing arm to ease the needle bearings greasing?
Thanks Noel - you are onto something there...........Is it just a case of drilling through into the void between the brass sleeves ?
Balky
I seem to recall someone doing something like that, the suspension linkage bearings would benefit too as they always seems to be forgotten about......
Quote from: balky1 on August 08, 2016, 09:38:39 AM
Quote from: ribbert on August 08, 2016, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: FJools on August 07, 2016, 07:59:51 PM
Removing one of the engine mount bushes proved troublesome......... eventually the pin shifted with a disconcerting bang.
Haha, I know that "bang"
Jools, this is only a couple of minute job with the engine out and well worth while (and cheap)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_z.jpg)
Noel
Did anyone ever installed a grease nipple on a swing arm to ease the needle bearings greasing?
What engine paint did you use Noel ?? did you "cure" it at all? Not sure if its too glossy for me though.
I bought several cans of PJ1 fast black when it became "non environmentally friendly" and disappeared off the shelves. Its a semi gloss so I may try that first when the Missus is out and the oven is free :yes:
Quote from: ribbert on August 08, 2016, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: FJools on August 07, 2016, 07:59:51 PM
Removing one of the engine mount bushes proved troublesome......... eventually the pin shifted with a disconcerting bang.
Haha, I know that "bang"
Jools, this is only a couple of minute job with the engine out and well worth while (and cheap)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_z.jpg)
Noel
Noel, I am becoming more convinced that you actually have two bikes. One is a garage queen that is polished on a daily basis and the other is identical but you ride it.....ie an FJ doppelganger.
Quote from: jscgdunn on August 08, 2016, 04:21:04 PM
Noel, I am becoming more convinced that you actually have two bikes. One is a garage queen that is polished on a daily basis and the other is identical but you ride it.....ie an FJ doppelganger.
Haha Jeff, I sometimes feel I spend as much time keeping it looking like I don't ride it as I do riding it. It's a sorry sight at the moment though, it's mid Winter, lots of rain, lots of roadworks.
Still, it's a lot easier to clean if you keep it clean.
I don't mind spending half a day cleaning it just to get it dirty again the next day on a decent ride but I hate it when I spend all that time and then get caught in the rain just going down the shops for milk - Grrrrr.
Noel
I have 1/2 mile gravel...I can clean it up good....but a few trips up and down it is back to square 1.
Quote from: FJools on August 08, 2016, 03:38:46 PM
What engine paint did you use Noel ?? did you "cure" it at all? Not sure if its too glossy for me though.
I bought several cans of PJ1 fast black when it became "non environmentally friendly" and disappeared off the shelves. Its a semi gloss so I may try that first when the Missus is out and the oven is free :yes:
VHT engine enamel. My preferred method for curing is riding it, uniform heat and plenty of it. The engine in the previous picture I painted then left sitting in the garage for six months and dust settled on it. When I went to wipe it off, much of it stayed so it has a slightly furry finish on the upper surfaces.
The gloss level settles down after a bit of use and a few washes. It's still glossy but not as much as in the photo. If they made a satin I would try it. Can't speak highly enough about durability of the paint though. Oil, petrol, time, nothing seems dull it.
The only trap if installing the engine with uncured paint is leaving finger prints on it. I now paint them as soon as they're hung in the frame and before I bolt anything else up, just a bit of masking. The only prep I do is clean it with a kero gun then high pressure wash it, that's it. Never had so much as a pin head of paint come off.
In the photo below, the engine is painted with VHT and for comparison, the clutch cover is original Yamaha finish.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7486/15637542064_c4ec47620d_z.jpg)
Noel
Quote from: FJools on August 08, 2016, 03:32:45 PM
Thanks Noel - you are onto something there...........Is it just a case of drilling through into the void between the brass sleeves ?
Balky
I seem to recall someone doing something like that, the suspension linkage bearings would benefit too as they always seems to be forgotten about......
Yes, the sleeve has rebate in the centre. Install the nipple over that and the grease will ooze out evenly right around the bush.
Balky, I did give that some thought when it was in bits once and can't recall exactly why I decided it wouldn't work very well. Other than the wall of the swing arm not being thick enough (the nipples are metal threads) to tap into, I think I figured you would just end up with a big blob of grease in the wrong spot, nothing to push it all the way around and as the arm only moves through a small arc it would not get distributed.
Might be worth revisiting if someone is bored next Winter.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on August 09, 2016, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: FJools on August 08, 2016, 03:32:45 PM
Thanks Noel - you are onto something there...........Is it just a case of drilling through into the void between the brass sleeves ?
Balky
I seem to recall someone doing something like that, the suspension linkage bearings would benefit too as they always seems to be forgotten about......
Yes, the sleeve has rebate in the centre. Install the nipple over that and the grease will ooze out evenly right around the bush.
Balky, I did give that some thought when it was in bits once and can't recall exactly why I decided it wouldn't work very well. Other than the wall of the swing arm not being thick enough (the nipples are metal threads) to tap into, I think I figured you would just end up with a big blob of grease in the wrong spot, nothing to push it all the way around and as the arm only moves through a small arc it would not get distributed.
Might be worth revisiting if someone is bored next Winter.
Noel
I've heard that newer bikes have the nipple, but I never actually bothered to check how it's made. I am not bored enough, though. :lol:
if the shafts were solid, like in the older jap bikes, they could probably be drilled in from the ends then cross drilled with a counter sunk end at the bearing center. The grease nipple would then be installed on the end of the shaft. Repeat for the other side. a bit more work thats all.
Slowly the parts are arriving that are required for the engine rebuild.I'm looking at some of the POR15 chassis paint for the centre & side stands, front & rear engine mount bars and the fairing bracket. It can be thinned for spraying and is pretty hard wearing stuff though a bit pricey.
I'm going to try the PJ1, since I have it, on the engine. It gives a very similar finish to the RD250/350 cases which are semi matt. Its not going to be a concourse bike so more concerned with practicality.
Not much happening for the next week though as convalescing from surgery and under orders not to strain. I think the doc mentioned lifting X0kg engines was not a good thing yet. he must have been reading my mind !
As most of the parts have arrived through the post, and the weather was a tad warmer I set to on rebuilding the engine.
All was going well, gearbox and selectors back in to the lower case.,Idler gear installed to the upper case and a new starter chain pad. New cam chain & starter chain fitted to crank together with a new oil seal. This oil seal supplied didn't have the lip. Note sure about this - do I order an OEM lip style or use this on.........
Anyhow, I figured it would be ok as it was from Randy :yes:
Then after dropping the crankshaft in the top case and getting all the chains in place I found I couldn't get the starter clutch and shaft to line up. Having my suspicions I removed the crank and checked the new starter chain against the old one - as I suspected it was too short.
Checking on line where I ordered it locally here in Oz I found what may be the reason - The chain is listed in the FJ1200 section but is shown as a 2006 XJR item and number, now occasionally some parts are superceded and its taken for granted (at risk) that being listed under FJ1200 it might be the case but in this case my assumption was wrong. I've contacted the supplier to see if he has the correct one but until this is rersolved it all comes to a halt again.
The replacement seal does not have a lip, that is the right seal.
Sorry to hear about the trouble with the starter chain. FYI, the starter chain is the same for the fj1100, fj1200, xjr1200 and xjr1300.
What part number was the chain you received from the other vendor?
Randy - RPM
Hi Randy
thanks for replying re the seal info.
the chain part number is 12R-11456-01-00
That part number fits a XS400
Randy - RPM
So, I did a little more research this morning and learned that Yamaha might have changed the tooth count on the starter gear. I found one source that say this 12R chain works on the 2007 - 2016 XJR1300 engines with 21 tooth count gears. It also indicates the 12R chain is 24 links
Well, that is confusing to me. I have two FJ1200's that are torn down for rebuilding right now and they both have 21 tooth gears. There is a different part number associated for the 07-16 XJR1300. Unfortunately I cannot find a photo of the new part number to count the teeth.
This does shed some light on another issue that cropped up earlier this year and involved a recall of certain XJR1300 engines. The starter chain was rubbing the starter chain oil squirter off. The piece would fall down into the chain & gear and brake the chain.
http://yamahaxjr1300.com/invision/index.php?/topic/46360-current-yamaha-recall-info/ (http://yamahaxjr1300.com/invision/index.php?/topic/46360-current-yamaha-recall-info/)
The wear on the squirter, along with the shorter chain, indicate to me they made the gear smaller which would cause that issue. They also have a different part number for the chain guide. I found one photo which indicates it is thicker which to me also means a smaller gear.
Sorry to hear you got the wrong chain, but I have the 25 link chain you need in stock: Starter Drive Chain (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3A4FM-11456-00)
You should also replace the Starter Chain Guide (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=36Y-11474-00) as well.
I learned something new today, now I have to do some more research to get it totally figured out.
Randy - RPM
Glad to hear I am not going mad Randy ! We never stop learning.
I got the damper elsewhere some time ago (it may have been from you!) so am hoping this is the correct one............(I'll check the wrapping tonight)
I will see how I get on with the supplier before I make alternate plans.
Update:
The supplier of the can chain confirmed that this is a mod that some did on FJ's to give the starter an easier time. He doesn't have any of the correct type so seeing as I was ordering TZ parts from Japan I just got them to add a chain. They notified me it was shipped Friday so should see it today or tomorrow.
I picked up the rebored cylinder block on Friday night. The work was carried out by one of those old guys that knows what they are doing and has worked on anything that you could mention - steam cranes, turbo props, V8 race engines, go karts you name it. It took me me 2 hours to get away !! A very good contact to know :i_am_so_happy:
Yesterday, after upgrading the puppy proof gate protection and fencing around the yard, I got into scrubbing the bores & degreasing before pressure washing ready for a coat of PJ1 fast satin black. i was gonna cure it in the oven for a while but remembered the wife is on nights at the moment and the "aroma" would have had double consequences !
Tonight I may have a go at painting the cylinder head if the weather holds.
Latest update
I got the bottom end all back together ready for the new pistons. It had a coat of Fast Black Semi to tidy it up a little.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P9020051_zpsv2hkmx05.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P9020051_zpsv2hkmx05.jpg.html)
Last night I began to fit the Wiseco's
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P9090052_zpswexfshuz.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P9090052_zpswexfshuz.jpg.html)
You will notice there are only 3 pistons fitted - somewhere I lost a piston pin :dash1: :dash1: :dash1: So today its shed clean time. I checked with the rebore guy
and he is going to have a look to make sure its not knocking around over there.
So all progress halted for now.
After the clean up and providing the pin doesn't turn up I'm going to look at making an engine stand that will fit into the trolley jack spigot for when I refit it to the chassis. She is after all a heavy heart !
Quote from: FJools on September 09, 2016, 06:26:14 PM
...somewhere I lost a piston pin :dash1: :dash1: :dash1:
Just for your information. You cannot use the Yamaha wrist pin in the wiseco piston, it is too short.
Randy - RPM
"You can't use a Lankstrum 7 inch Gangley wrench on a Findley sprocket"
Old Steve Martin "Plumbers Joke"
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on September 09, 2016, 09:44:24 PM
"You can't use a Lankstrum 7 inch Gangley wrench on a Findley sprocket"
Old Steve Martin "Plumbers Joke"
https://youtu.be/yX27AfOEYGc
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 09, 2016, 07:49:53 PM
Quote from: FJools on September 09, 2016, 06:26:14 PM
...somewhere I lost a piston pin :dash1: :dash1: :dash1:
Just for your information. You cannot use the Yamaha wrist pin in the wiseco piston, it is too short.
Randy - RPM
.....and you can not use a Yamaha wrist pin clip in a Wiseco piston......right Fred?
Jools, I feel your pain, my kit came back minus a couple of bits that stopped assembly. Got them back, but the stoppage is irritating!
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 09, 2016, 07:49:53 PM
Quote from: FJools on September 09, 2016, 06:26:14 PM
...somewhere I lost a piston pin :dash1: :dash1: :dash1:
Just for your information. You cannot use the Yamaha wrist pin in the wiseco piston, it is too short.
Randy - RPM
I did look at the old Yamaha pins but they all have a very rough line on them either side of the rod so I didn't even offer one up to consider !
There are some on ebay in the USA but the shipping cost more than the pin FCOL!
Quote from: Troyskie on September 10, 2016, 12:13:10 AM
Jools, I feel your pain, my kit came back minus a couple of bits that stopped assembly. Got them back, but the stoppage is irritating!
Troy
I'm starting to think that may be the case here too as I never took anything out of the boxes until I put the rings on piston by piston.
I can remember seeing the pins in the small compartment in the box for the first couple but was getting too preoccupied to remember if the last piston had one.
Anyone else had missing bits from Piston kits I wonder ??
Just found a supplier on ebay that is realistic
S278 Pin = US$7.91
Shipping = US$6.93 12 days USPS Int First Class - Compare that with the US$40+ that some robber wanted !!
Hallelujah
What!!?? Sounds like Dick Turpin is flogging bike parts then :sarcastic:
I'm pretty sure I have them in stock as well.
But they are not on the website for some reason.
I'll have check when I get back to the shop.
Randy - RPM
(popcorn)
As I crawl out from under Pat's bus...... :hang1:
Yes, be very mindful when installing the wiseco wrist pin clips. They seem to be made of spring steel and will definitely launch themselves if you let one get away. OEM Yamaha clips are NOT a suitable substitute.
Fred
Everything is in stock...
Wrist Pin Parts (http://www.rpmracingca.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=cir+clip&sprice=&stype=&scat=&sfil0=)
Randy - RPM
Latest update...............
in between other projects and injuries I have managed to get the top end together ready to fit the cams.
while installing the valve lifters/buckets I double checked the shim sizes as these will all need to be re adjusted after the head service.
The only worry I have now is that the new cam chain is too short...............before I panic I need to double check its not bunched up, but on initial inspection
with the exhaust cam sitting on its journals there is no way the inlet cam is going to take up its correct location.
At this point I stopped and went for a cuppa, but then sat watching the Moto GP from Sepang and never returned to the workshop.
I find a few days away allows me to read and absorb the process hopefully finding something that will assist me.
Jools, check that the rear camchain guide is located in the correct place. A recent rebuild, that a mate of mine did, ended up with the same problem. It turned out that he hadn't fitted the rear guide in the proper place.
Regards, Pete.
P.S See you at the end of November. :drinks:
On my engine assembly attempt # 43 the cam chain certainly did bunch at the tensioner at one point, but lifting the cam shaft off again and having a back & forth with the cam chain released it.
Note, yes, I did screw up the assembly sequence that time as well. :dash1:
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 30, 2016, 04:41:56 PM
Jools, check that the rear camchain guide is located in the correct place. A recent rebuild, that a mate of mine did, ended up with the same problem. It turned out that he hadn't fitted the rear guide in the proper place.
Regards, Pete.
P.S See you at the end of November. :drinks:
Thanks Pete, I'll double check. I'm sure the chain is correct for length.
156 links if I remember correctly. And NO you can't use this for an excuse to miss the Manshed weekend!
Regards, Pete. :drinks:
I just remembered I have the carbs to clean & set up yet too...................
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 31, 2016, 12:31:20 AM
156 links if I remember correctly. And NO you can't use this for an excuse to miss the Manshed weekend!
Regards, Pete. :drinks:
Well I found the problem the "new chain" part number 94591-05156 is 6 links shorter than the one I took out...................... :dash1: :dash1: :dash1:
So its either a full strip to replace or split the chain and put a link in. either way I need to order a new chain FFS.
My problem is - is the part number correct ??? and if so why is the one I got incorrect.....................???
Tripped up again by those @##$# demons !!
Quote from: FJools on November 01, 2016, 01:35:40 AM
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 31, 2016, 12:31:20 AM
156 links if I remember correctly. And NO you can't use this for an excuse to miss the Manshed weekend!
Regards, Pete. :drinks:
Well I found the problem the "new chain" part number 94591-05156 is 6 links shorter than the one I took out...................... :dash1: :dash1: :dash1:
So its either a full strip to replace or split the chain and put a link in. either way I need to order a new chain FFS.
My problem is - is the part number correct ??? and if so why is the one I got incorrect.....................???
Tripped up again by those @##$# demons !!
That really is rotten luck Jools. If you build enough engines you eventually have strip one down again, I've had to do it and it's heartbreaking. I suppose the fact that's it not a quad cam V8 already back in the car in no comfort to you at the moment.
If it was mine, I'd be looking into a spit chain, the rest of the chain is only riveted links anyway and it's under constant and consistant load - what could go wrong?
Noel
Possibly an order from RPM is called for. I have never heard of someone ordering a part as critical as this and having the wrong part show up.
Here is the direct link for the cam timing chain
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3A94591-05156&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3A94591-05156&cat=39)
According to Partzilla the part number you ordered is correct. This link shows that it is used for all of the FJ1100/1200 years.
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-94591-05156-00.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-94591-05156-00.html)
Fred
Are you sure the chain is not bunched at the bottom of the crankshaft?
Remove the cams and front chain guide. Hold up moderate upward tension of the chain with your hand. Rotate the crankshaft and see if the missing links don't magically show up. The chain can bunch at the bottom. Wwhen you just lift the chain by hand it will engage the crank and leave loose links hanging underneath. Turning the crank will release them.
After that you need to keep the tension on the chain so they cant fall back down there. Also. make sure your front chain guide is not bent at the bottom. It shuld have only a nice radius to it. If it is bent it will be down at the bottom and have a significant curve there.
(http://www.rpmracingca.com/prodimages/large/36Y-12251-00-2.jpg)
That is the correct part number for the timing chain.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: aviationfred on November 01, 2016, 09:38:44 AM
Possibly an order from RPM is called for. I have never heard of someone ordering a part as critical as this and having the wrong part show up.
Here is the direct link for the cam timing chain
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3A94591-05156&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3A94591-05156&cat=39)
According to Partzilla the part number you ordered is correct. This link shows that it is used for all of the FJ1100/1200 years.
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-94591-05156-00.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-94591-05156-00.html)
Fred
That what I assumed Fred. It came from Japan and is obviously unused. I can only assume someone along the line has put the wrong chain in the wrong packaging, probably not from the factory, and i'm the one holding the baby !
I think I'll stick to 2 strokes...!!
Quote from: racerrad8 on November 01, 2016, 10:54:22 AM
Are you sure the chain is not bunched at the bottom of the crankshaft?
Remove the cams and front chain guide. Hold up moderate upward tension of the chain with your hand. Rotate the crankshaft and see if the missing links don't magically show up. The chain can bunch at the bottom. Wwhen you just lift the chain by hand it will engage the crank and leave loose links hanging underneath. Turning the crank will release them.
After that you need to keep the tension on the chain so they cant fall back down there. Also. make sure your front chain guide is not bent at the bottom. It shuld have only a nice radius to it. If it is bent it will be down at the bottom and have a significant curve there.
That is the correct part number for the timing chain.
Randy - RPM
yep, been through all those possibilities and double checked guide locations. I rigged up a top support for the chain so that I could rotate the engine freely. I marked one side plate with tippex and counted the number of plates for a full revolution of the chain - 75 x 2 =150
Then I checked the old chain marked similarly with tipex - 78 x 2 = 156.
So I put everything away and went for a coffee..........
I have opted for the split link chain and and now that Wemoto has a branch in Australia they list a DID split timing chain for the FJ which should be here this week.
Mate, if it's any consolation, when you flash it up for the first time the satisfaction for overcoming all this irritation will be that much better.
At least you don't have to fight through paperwork and drip-fed bureaucratic road blocks.
Fingers crossed she's ready for Bermi end of month. Should be a nice distance to run-in a new motor :good2:
Quote from: Troyskie on November 03, 2016, 02:56:43 PM
Fingers crossed she's ready for Bermi end of month. Should be a nice distance to run-in a new motor :good2:
He'll be here Troy. He's run out of excuses. :mail1:
Quote from: oldktmdude on November 03, 2016, 04:09:50 PM
Quote from: Troyskie on November 03, 2016, 02:56:43 PM
Fingers crossed she's ready for Bermi end of month. Should be a nice distance to run-in a new motor :good2:
He'll be here Troy. He's run out of excuses. :mail1:
Ya got me there old dude !
Any luck with the parts Jools?
Yes & No.................
The Chain arrived in damaged packaging and the link was missing !! FFS :dash1:
I contacted the supplier who were most apologetic but is wasn't necessarily their fault.
They are shipping me a link at no cost but that's likely to be another week minimum.
I'm beginning to think someone is trying to tell me something, and to honest it will be a rush to get this done now, which I didn't want.
Its a long way to run in an untested engine :nea:
WOW! :diablo:
If you need a spare pair of only slightly incompetent hands I can come up :sarcastic:
I think you can do it if the link arrives in time.....
here is a typical example of how the gods are not aligning....................
Last night I got home from work planning to clean and jet the carb bank and do as much as I could to the motor
Only to find the swimming pool pump screaming its head off, so I spent 2 hours stripping and sorting that out.
Then I settled in to watch the MotoGP testing and that was it.................
Maybe tonight, although I may have to go down the vets to recover the cat, that I had to rush in Sunday night with a massive chunk out of its leg.
Should have been reasonably straight forward surgery (if expensive) except they accidentally overdosed him on anti inflammatories (6x) and had to keep him in on a drip under observation for 72 hours - add their expense thank god.
Now I just heard the bikes are back from New Zealand so that's half Saturday written off while I go and collect it.
Jolly life !
Mate! :empathy2:
I feel your pain, but am glad it's not me.
At least you were able to sort the pump out yourself. I'd be looking down the barrel at some pool dude charging me more than the Vet to fix the pump.
I put a new front tyre on the 11 last night (she now has matched Sport Demons front and back), plus pulled the fairing off and fixed up the fuel guage, ready for you if you need it if the car is fixed (just sayin'... :sarcastic:).
Cheers mate, currently I wouldn't run the car that distance with the ECU light on.
Working full time now is killing me :crazy:
Perhaps you should arrange a meeting to discuss the upcoming meeting :dash1: :sarcastic:
Quote from: Troyskie on November 15, 2016, 04:27:47 PM
Perhaps you should arrange a meeting to discuss the upcoming meeting :dash1: :sarcastic:
don't go there.......................... :nea:
Quote from: FJools on November 15, 2016, 02:07:21 PM
here is a typical example of how the gods are not aligning....................
Jools, you are having a rough trot, even your metaphors are giving you trouble. :biggrin:
Noel
Ha Ha
yeah Noel, it didn't look right when I typed it but WTF.............its probably not far off though!! a black rat must have crossed my path........I believe it is called malapropism ?
How about the good old mixed metaphors :flag_of_truce:
Quote from: ribbert on November 15, 2016, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: FJools on November 15, 2016, 02:07:21 PM
here is a typical example of how the gods are not aligning....................
Jools, you are having a rough trot, even your metaphors are giving you trouble. :biggrin:
Noel
Weren't the planets named after gods (except Earth)? So it was right in the first place, kinda.
Quote from: krusty on November 15, 2016, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: ribbert on November 15, 2016, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: FJools on November 15, 2016, 02:07:21 PM
here is a typical example of how the gods are not aligning....................
Jools, you are having a rough trot, even your metaphors are giving you trouble. :biggrin:
Noel
Weren't the planets named after gods (except Earth)? So it was right in the first place, kinda.
That's drawing a very long straw.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on November 15, 2016, 10:32:40 PM
Quote from: krusty on November 15, 2016, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: ribbert on November 15, 2016, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: FJools on November 15, 2016, 02:07:21 PM
here is a typical example of how the gods are not aligning....................
Jools, you are having a rough trot, even your metaphors are giving you trouble. :biggrin:
Noel
Weren't the planets named after gods (except Earth)? So it was right in the first place, kinda.
That's drawing a very long straw.
Noel
I'll take it though.............. :good2:
Cant believe the last post was almost 12 months ago FFS !!
The FJ had to take a back burner while life and work got in the way, to the extent that by the time I got back to it I had forgotten what I was doing... :Facepalm:
So here is a quick 2017 for me so far:
Christmas till Jan - UK visit to take my youngest (17) to visit her Grandma (84) before she embarks on Uni later this year as we all know what the consequences of not doing that might be.
Jan 2017 - Prepare the TZR 250 3MA race bike for the Island Classic from where it will slip out of the country to blighty for me to use at Spa during my annual visits to the Bikers Classic.
Feb 2017 - Work gets in the way of everything..........
Mar 2017 - Busy month - Prep the TZ250 for the InterFOS at Eastern creek (old Barry Sheene festival of Speed) bumped into Alf and Sparky there if memory serves me right. Contract finishes time to plan everything left to do. 2 days later get a call for work over to Adelaide for briefing. 2 trips to NZ to a) try and get Kwak GT750 working and b) in laws 70th party.
April 2017 - Actually began putting the FJ Motor back together when not working.
NOEL: Decided that Wiseco 1216cc bore cheaper than new rings.
May 2017 - Engine back in the chassis, carbs cleaned & jetted. Delkevic Exhaust fitted without any mods required...????
Carbs on engine fired up oil leaking from oil cooler fittings
May 2017 - Corrective surgery to previous procedure on left ear canal stenosis, hopefully that side will work again
I hear you Jools, similar year for me, without anywhere near as much bike fun.
I did the same for Yummy with the 1219 kit.
Been purring like a kitten.
All good with the surgery?
Quote from: FJools on October 05, 2017, 12:02:31 AM
........NOEL: Decided that Wiseco 1216cc bore cheaper than new rings........
Great to hear from you Jools. I'm with Pete, I thought you'd dropped off the edge of the planet. You've certainly had a busy year and it would be great to catch up with you in Bermagui in December if you can make it.
Did I offer some pearl on the above subject?
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on October 05, 2017, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: FJools on October 05, 2017, 12:02:31 AM
........NOEL: Decided that Wiseco 1216cc bore cheaper than new rings........
Great to hear from you Jools. I'm with Pete, I thought you'd dropped off the edge of the planet. You've certainly had a busy year and it would be great to catch up with you in Bermagui in December if you can make it.
Did I offer some pearl on the above subject?
Noel
Something about being castigated for considering re-using the original rings comes to mind LOL
I hadn't actually finished posting - I had to shoot off to an appointment I'd forgotten about :Facepalm:
So continuing.............
June - finishing up work before I head off on annual jaunt to blighty to see family, especially my new grandaughter, and do Spa. Dyno session with bike and supposedly knowledgeable operator undid all the carb work to date. Track day add Cadwell before Spa saw me reversing all these changes.....gradually.
Spa had me slowly getting it back to rideable and then the heavens opened for 2 days. So unfinished business next year.
July - Back to work and and the FJ. Oil leak at cooler unions fixed. Still leaking somewhere round the sump. Sump off cleaned, new gasket & hylomar, replaced.
Still leaking from that area - could be filter.... cover taken off and a part of the thin wall was missing, tried new O ring, no luck. Ordered spin on filter kit from Randy. Waiting.
Aug - got a call from a mate - Interfos 2018 will have 500/750 GP stroke theme so I need to get my TZ fixed. Made the silly decision to build the second bike up too :empathy: new cases and cranks, searching for parts globally emptied the bank account faster than I could fill it. Got dispensation to build new engine on dining room table....(its still there waiting for parts LOL) Filter kit arrived and fitted still leaking somewhere around that area FFS. Pulled everything off again and there is was staring me in the face - with all the stop, start of this build i had forgotten to fit a clutch pushrod oil seal. :mad:
oil seal fitted, started - no leaks that I can see, but motor is dog rough. Balanced carbs - slightly better but doesn't like blip test. quick road test and it pulls like a train except off idle. Needs a bit of tweaking.
Sep - machining wheels for TZ750 #2 and other related stuff. In between contracts but gotta watch cash as not sure where next one is coming from. Got 3 days a week but again Christmas is coming.......Lathe motor decides to cough up so new motor ordered. Fit DRO to milling machine to make life easier.
Losing interest in FJ again..........
Changed to smaller lock up storage so had to re organise workshoto get in extra shelving and a few bikes including those I need to finish to sell off coz I'll never ride them.
So thats up to date, lathe motor arrived today so fitted that and I can get back to mountain of stuff I have to make for the TZ, but first I'm going to follow Randy's instructions on setting the air screws on the carbs of the FJ so I can at least use it for work.
Quote from: Troyskie on October 05, 2017, 12:11:54 AM
All good with the surgery?
So far so good, but these things are notoriously slow and and I'm not one to take it easy when I should.......
Just posted here but is hasn't appeared..................
In a nutshell; followed Randys' instructions for setting air screws. They needed another 1 turn out after this before the blip test was good. Could probably do another 1/4 out but its much better now on test riding. Just the new Wiseco top end catching me out in low turns on side roads with engine braking. Need to sharpen up after all those 2 strokes :Facepalm:
Clutch is still a little draggy. I swapped over to XJR master cylinders for both front brake and clutch. Clutch has been bled 3 times but another session won't hurt. I don't want to give that 2nd gear any more of a hard time than is necessary and all the changes are pretty clunky.
Next thing is to sort out the slight leak on the LH fork seal, then service the blue spot callipers since I have the special tool and seals.
So barring a monsoon, I should be able to make the manshed day down at Bermagui - save me a spot Pete !
Jools
No worries mate. We'll fit you in. Monsoons won't stop us, as long as there is beer and a BBQ, it's on.
What engine oil are you using? I only ask because the oil type and viscosity can make a big difference in gear changing. If you happen to be using a "running in"
type oil for your new motor, it has very little, if any, in the way of additives to help with smooth gear selection. I say this because I have just been through the same process using a "running in oil" and noticed gear changes improved after an oil change to my usual oil.
I know this is controversial, but tie your clutch lever back to the bar with a cable tie overnight. Report back with the results. It has worked for me in the past for both brakes and clutch. What carb jets are you running? I'm always interested to hear what other's are using when their engines are similar to mine.
Sounds like you've almost got her done, time to put some miles on her.
Regards, Pete. :drinks:
Hi Pete, I'm not using a "running in" oil - just Yamaha mineral 15w50 that I bought before I had to do all the top end changes.
The clutch lever does not seem spongy, and the XJR levers are span adjustable with it set at the widest. Don't get me wrong it does'nt drag when sat at lights with the clutch in. It could well be the oil viscosity but I'll try the lever in trick.
Jetting wise I'm using s 6 Sigma Racing jet kit specific for a 92 FJ12. Outer cylinder main jets are 122.5, inner cylinders 120 as a start point (110 originals).
Pilot jets are still original I think (forget what they are!) 42.5 came with the kit but I swapped them back while I was having starting problems.
The other mod was to drill hole in slides out to 5/32 - drill supplied.
It also talks of raising the needle two notches & includes shims and nylon spacers for part needle adjustment if required but I haven't touched these yet.
It also talks of clipping a loop out of throttle valve spring if there is a lazy throttle response.
I was intending to get this set up on the dyno once I was close.
Your main jets sound about right but usually the richer (bigger) jets go into the inner carbs to help with the cooling. I would run 122.5's in all carbs. I think you will also be better off with 42.5 pilots and lifting the needles (oem) with the circlip in the forth groove down from the top. That's just from my experience with my motor, which is fairly similar to yours. I also have drilled out the vacuum holes in the slides but don't remember the size but it was a fair bit larger than standard. If you haven't already done the 4 degree ignition timing advance I also recommend that. Mate , you won't recognise your bike once you get it tuned right. Makes a standard 1200 feel tame.
Regards, Pete.
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 07, 2017, 06:18:19 PM
Your main jets sound about right but usually the richer (bigger) jets go into the inner carbs to help with the cooling. I would run 122.5's in all carbs. I think you will also be better off with 42.5 pilots and lifting the needles (oem) with the circlip in the forth groove down from the top. That's just from my experience with my motor, which is fairly similar to yours. I also have drilled out the vacuum holes in the slides but don't remember the size but it was a fair bit larger than standard. If you haven't already done the 4 degree ignition timing advance I also recommend that. Mate , you won't recognise your bike once you get it tuned right. Makes a standard 1200 feel tame.
Regards, Pete.
Hi Pete
my bad on the main jet locations, they are as you described. I need to check on the pilots because the ones in the bag here are 42.5 but are a bit grubby and don't look like new jets so I'm wondering if they had been changed by the PO and I've just swapped like for like........... memory is a wonderful thing :morning1:
The carbs have been on and off that many times I was losing the will to live.........but I'll see how it performs on Monday when I run a few errands.
Whats involved in the 4 deg mod ? I heard mention of it on here. I could really do with some new diaphragms at some stage - I did get one to replace a holed one but pulled it off when I was having the original problems, and sealed the old one with silicone as someone on here mentioned they had done :biggrin: but more of the type I got will do at some stage.
I may also recheck the shims since its bedded in a little just to be confident. Still have the auto cam chain adjuster which looked good.
Jools, the 4 degree advance is a simple operation, just elongate the ignition plate mounting holes (2) out to the edge of the washer shadow
lines. You must rotate the ignition plate clockwise so make sure that the holes are filed in the correct direction. A 6mm chainsaw file is ideal for this job.
If you can wait, this would be a good job to save for the Manshed weekend as would checking your shims. I have a fairly large selection of shims as well as the valve holder tool. If you decide to do the shims soon, let me know what sizes you need and we can do an exchange, I have lots between 2.70 and 2.90mm.
Regards, Pete.
Cheers Pete, I think the ignition mod has manshed written all over it :good2:
Will let you know about the shims - I did buy a kit and tool off Randy, and I have also bought shitloads of shims since, but you know what that means - probably be one or two short. Now where did I put my installed shim records..........
After using the bike a couple of times since the last post, I noticed the LH fork seal had gotten worse so needed urgent attention as the seepage was nearing the brake caliper.
I ordered genuine seals, dust seals and bushes from Japan which arrived earlier this week so set about doing a service. As happens the offending forks damper rod was spinning and my homemade TZ rod holding tool was too small. after much searching for something the right size to braze on the other end of the tool, I ended up machining a 27mm AF "Nut" from 35mm mild steel on the mill. Drawing it in CAD so I could get the exact amount (2.09mm) to remove from each curved edge. The first 2 cuts were easy enough being diametrically opposite then, not having any angled slips, I had to resort to a small adjustable bevel to set up for the last cuts. Having previously drilled a 10mm hole through the centre I was able to hold it in place on the tool while I brazed it in place. 2 mins later the forks were apart - after 3 hours searching & making the tool up !!
Refilled using 10/30w semi synthetic (not sure about this though as the forks have emulators) and initial test ride seems good.
However the bike started running rough as buggery so on getting back fuel was pissing out the overflow of No 4 carb.........
Carbs removed stripped and cleaned again. Pilots checked and they are indeed 42.5 so have been swapped earlier in its life. I did notice that the ones installed were from the 6 Sigma kit and are slightly different to my eye, so I replaced them with the original Mikuni pilot jets. Carefully reassembled the float valves and the bike now starts and idles perfectly, in fact it seems better so maybe those pilots from 6 Sigma aren't really 42.5...........
Don't you just love it when a straight forward 2 hour job turns into a full day epic. Common occurrence when working on 30+ year old machines.
Great learning experience Jools. I can help you with fine tuning your carbs in December if you like. I've done one or two sets in the past.
We have a bed reserved for you, so hopefully this will entice you down here. Oh yeah, we have beer and food as well.
Stay well mate and see you in December.
Regards, Pete. :drinks:
Hi Pete
yeah, I'd agree with you a few years ago but now I'm finding grumpiness increases with the square root of age.
I'll be down there, I need to try the air hawk seat out ! Any of the local Sydney based guys coming down ?
G'day Jools, Alan mentioned that he may be a starter, Dave and Tony also coming. Troy and Johno are coming, so you blokes should organise a meet up and ride down together.
I've never used an Air Hawk but all the riders I know that do, recommend very little air pressure is the secret to their success.
See you soon. Regards, Pete.
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 26, 2017, 05:30:33 PM
Don't you just love it when a straight forward 2 hour job turns into a full day epic.
I do wish I had that problem Pete,
mine usually take 3+ weeks , pull it apart then find something needs replacing, order it then wait til it comes in. Meanwhile you start something else then find out you need other parts :hang1:
Quote from: FJools on October 29, 2017, 03:59:34 PM
Any of the local Sydney based guys coming down ?
I'm trying to get there Jools.
I got my swing arm back on after greasing all linkages and bearings last Saturday, did the rear wheel bearings also. Next 2 hour job is put carbs back on then headset and front wheel bearings :scratch_one-s_head: I think that should do
Cheers Alan
Quote from: Sparky84 on October 29, 2017, 05:47:00 PM
I'm trying to get there Jools.
I got my swing arm back on after greasing all linkages and bearings last Saturday, did the rear wheel bearings also. Next 2 hour job is put carbs back on then headset and front wheel bearings :scratch_one-s_head: I think that should do
Cheers Alan
Alan, if you get all that done before you come down to the Mashed Day, we'll have nothing to do except drink extra beer and go for a longer ride.
:good2: :drinks:
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 29, 2017, 10:08:23 PM
Quote from: Sparky84 on October 29, 2017, 05:47:00 PM
I'm trying to get there Jools.
I got my swing arm back on after greasing all linkages and bearings last Saturday, did the rear wheel bearings also. Next 2 hour job is put carbs back on then headset and front wheel bearings :scratch_one-s_head: I think that should do
Cheers Alan
Alan, if you get all that done before you come down to the Mashed Day, we'll have nothing to do except drink extra beer and go for a longer ride.
:good2: :drinks:
No worries Pete, I'll make sure it's not washed before then :biggrin: :drinks:
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 29, 2017, 10:08:23 PM
..... we'll have nothing to do except drink extra beer and go for a longer ride.
:good2: :drinks:
This has the makings of the best one yet.
Noel
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 29, 2017, 04:12:37 PM
I've never used an Air Hawk but all the riders I know that do, recommend very little air pressure is the secret to their success.
Yep, if you bum's not touching the seat it's over inflated. I was speaking to the Air Hawk guy a couple of years ago and I could see the frustration in his face as he explained the difficulty they have getting that message through.
Noel
Bloody hell! How did the manshed day sneak up so fast? It's only 5 weeks away.
Some time ago I removed the rear suspension chasing a bit of freeplay. It is only a couple of years since I last had it apart and at that time I replaced the swing arm bearings only. I cleaned, inspected, greased and replaced all the other components.
Over that couple of years I did some trips that took me over the worst corrugations and I ever driven/ridden over and many hundreds of Km's of rough bush roads and it seems to have taken it's toll on the suspension. I also had a carrier bearing fail en route on the last trip.
The shafts have chunks of hardening missing, they are heavily marked by the needles and most of the bearings are shot. After giving it some thought I decided that needle rollers were not the best choice (IMO of course) for this application given the small arc these components move in, the nature of the load on sharp bumps and the small contact area between the rollers and the shafts.
I thought is would be better served with bushes and grease nipples. So, out with the bearings and .......well, that's where it sits, a recurring hand injury that won't go away making heavy work somewhere between difficult and impossible.
Now that Pete's figured out that working on manshed weekends is just what we tell our wives we do, I don't won't to miss it, I will have to get busy. I have not ordered any parts yet either. Where does the time go? The last time I thought about this I had months up my sleeve.
For those of you unfamiliar with Bermagui, it is a beautiful part of the world (below) and any lucky bastard riding up from Victoria gets 4 days of some of the best roads in the country getting there and back.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5531/31297726516_88bd99433d_b.jpg)
Just South of Pete and Alfs place. Photo taken from the bike.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5690/31226839472_2da1bcbe4a_b.jpg)
How good's this on a work day
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5651/31001760420_d8d236c8c7_c.jpg)
Also taken from the road
Quote from: ribbert on October 30, 2017, 07:09:02 AM
Quote from: oldktmdude on October 29, 2017, 10:08:23 PM
..... we'll have nothing to do except drink extra beer and go for a longer ride.
:good2: :drinks:
This has the makings of the best one yet.
Noel
There was no mention of red wine Noel...................
I gave the old girl her first major ride out since the rebuild, and bar a few niggly little things, ran perfectly.
I had changed the front fork oil from 10/30 to a pucka 15 weight since it has emulators and 0.95kg springs as I discovered on pulling apart. Still not sure about the settings as its fine on smooth or slightly bumpy bitumen, but chronic over the 'standard' Sydney road surfaces. On faster uneven surface corners I had the exhaust touch down when it bottomed out encountering a couple of hollows in the road, so probably need to tighten the rear preload up a bit.
What I am concerned about though is the "backlash" in the drive when rolling off and on the throttle which may just be down to clutch shock absorbers, so a bit of inspection required there.
Air hawk was good, following the inflation advice, for the 2 hour ride which took in Middle Dural, Cattai Ridge Rd (bumpy as!) back through kenthurst and Berowra Waters ferry, a shorth blast up the freeway to Moonee Moonee and back via the old road with a quick coffee at the Pie in the Sky, continuing along the old ride, bypassing Hornsby with the freeway again then the Commenarra back to Lane Cove Road and home. 160km all up. The only pain was the left wrist which must still be grumbling from the stack at Eastern Creek last year.
So this arvo i will be checking it over any loose stuff and looking at the plugs. Carbs setting is pretty close I reckon, but need to look how I can tuck the exhaust in a bit more.
I bought one of these today
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Xenon-HID-Headlamp-Conversion-NEW/380805496780?hash=item58a9c6bfcc:g:hjIAAOSwM8ZZeZPH (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Xenon-HID-Headlamp-Conversion-NEW/380805496780?hash=item58a9c6bfcc:g:hjIAAOSwM8ZZeZPH)
will let you know how good it is on arrival.
I figured I would take this opportunity to carry out the ignition coil feed mod at the same time. The plan being to install a 12v distribution panel at the front of the bike via 4mm cables which are fuse protected directly from battery. This sub panel will be relay enabled by a brown wire switched feed off the ignition switch.
Cool beans Jools....Check to make sure that the 12v current in that brown wire doesn't shut off when the starter is engaged.
Report back....you will notice the added voltage to your coils, absolutely.
Cheers
Quote from: FJools on December 12, 2017, 09:23:13 PM
I bought one of these today
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Xenon-HID-Headlamp-Conversion-NEW/380805496780?hash=item58a9c6bfcc:g:hjIAAOSwM8ZZeZPH (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Xenon-HID-Headlamp-Conversion-NEW/380805496780?hash=item58a9c6bfcc:g:hjIAAOSwM8ZZeZPH)
Planning on more night riding or just to be seen better Jools?
Quote from: FJools on December 12, 2017, 09:23:13 PM
I figured I would take this opportunity to carry out the ignition coil feed mod at the same time. The plan being to install a 12v distribution panel at the front of the bike via 4mm cables which are fuse protected directly from battery. This sub panel will be relay enabled by a brown wire switched feed off the ignition switch.
Jools when you mention 4mm cable, you don't mean 4mm² do you because that is awfully big.
I have run 2 x 15A circuits up to the front,
1 is being switched through relay that is activated by parking light switch that powers GPS and USB and possible LED spot lights.
The other will be run direct from battery for coil relay mod.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 13, 2017, 12:27:18 AM
....you will notice the added voltage to your coils, absolutely.
Is it really that noticeable
Cheers Alan
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 13, 2017, 12:27:18 AM
Cool beans Jools....Check to make sure that the 12v current in that brown wire doesn't shut off when the starter is engaged.
Report back....you will notice the added voltage to your coils, absolutely.
Cheers
Hi Pat
I've not studied the circuit diagram in any great detail as yet but would imagine that the start button feeds off that brown switched live otherwise you could hit the starter with the ignition off.....???
Alan,
Yes, 4mm², as there is a fair bit of load which equates to heat / volt drop through small diameter copper cables and the connections so any help here is not to be sniffed at in my opinion.
2.5mm² would probably do, but since I will be running lights, ignition and ancillary USB sockets from this supply it sort of makes sense, plus I have the cable in the workshop!
As for the night riding - isn't it the best time to be out there ? (cooler, no cars - watch those Roo's and Wombats though)
Jools
Quote from: FJools on December 13, 2017, 04:20:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 13, 2017, 12:27:18 AM
Cool beans Jools....Check to make sure that the 12v current in that brown wire doesn't shut off when the starter is engaged.
Report back....you will notice the added voltage to your coils, absolutely.
Cheers
Hi Pat
I've not studied the circuit diagram in any great detail as yet but would imagine that the start button feeds off that brown switched live otherwise you could hit the starter with the ignition off.....???
What I'm saying is that there are some circuits that are interrupted (e.g. headlight) when you engage the starter.
If you power your coil relay off this type of circuit, your bike won't start.
Thanks Pat, I wasn't aware of that. I will need to study the diagram in depth, but maybe switch the ignition relay from the orange or grey coil feed wire instead. Just a bit more thought required.
I'm thinking of something from this range mounted under the fairing at the front.....
https://www.swe-check.com.au/pages/product_list_product/11/34/158/1043 (https://www.swe-check.com.au/pages/product_list_product/11/34/158/1043)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 13, 2017, 06:51:33 PM
Quote from: FJools on December 13, 2017, 04:20:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 13, 2017, 12:27:18 AM
Cool beans Jools....Check to make sure that the 12v current in that brown wire doesn't shut off when the starter is engaged.
Report back....you will notice the added voltage to your coils, absolutely.
Cheers
Hi Pat
I've not studied the circuit diagram in any great detail as yet but would imagine that the start button feeds off that brown switched live otherwise you could hit the starter with the ignition off.....???
What I'm saying is that there are some circuits that are interrupted (e.g. headlight) when you engage the starter.
If you power your coil relay off this type of circuit, your bike won't start.
Any Reason you can't use the original coil supply as the control for your distribution panel?
Cheers Alan
You can, but I'm not sure I would want to....Depending on the accessories load on the new distribution panel, you may want those switched off while the starter is engaged (just like the headlight)
If you use the existing coil circuit for control of the new distribution panel, that (obviously) does not shut off when the starter is used.
You are safe using the existing coil power lead to control just the new coil relay, that's common.
Personally, I would keep the distribution panel with all the new accessory loads, on a circuit that is interrupted when starting. There's a reason why Yamaha designed the system to disconnect load on the battery when the starter is used.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 16, 2017, 02:34:23 AM
You can, but I'm not sure I would want to....Depending on the accessories load on the new distribution panel, you may want those switched off while the starter is engaged (just like the headlight)
Yes that would be wise but on my 84 lights aren't automatically ON until I switch them ON.
Not sure what else is on while starting, but I have used the parker switch to operate other relays to turn on supply to GPS and USB supplies usually after the bike has warmed up ready to ride.
So maybe a combination of both, not sure what is on yours Jools
Cheers Alan
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 16, 2017, 02:34:23 AM
... you may want those switched off while the starter is engaged (just like the headlight)
....on a circuit that is interrupted when starting. There's a reason why Yamaha designed the system to disconnect load on the battery when the starter is used.
Pat, are you sure about that? I have never seen that function on an FJ (and can't recall seeing it on anything else of that era)
Jools, I would wonder about the wisdom of placing the fuse panel behind the fairing. Things happen and you don't want to turn a 2 sec job into a fairing removal should you need to check/change the fuses. It also gets hot enough under there to fry an egg on a hot day in traffic in Sydney.
Applying the KISS principle, I avoided the wiring diagram, placed the box in the tail, ran 12v direct from the battery (fused as close as possible to the battery) then from the box to the relays and used the original wires as triggers. My whole bike runs on 3 relays with components grouped and piggy backed.
I like the look of the box you linked, I wish I had found one like it before buying mine
Box in tail section...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8082/29965164635_af854a84b5_c.jpg)
Wiring run to the front in semi rigid, high temp, self closing fibreglass conduit (from Jaycar)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8467/29931332966_e438f6a22f_c.jpg)
HID components mounted behind headlight..
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7512/27546499551_501b90ab08_c.jpg)
This what happens over time when you keep adding accessories one at a time (I was only about half done here, it got even worse than this before I redid it all)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7521/26485050634_992a859333_b.jpg)
As the wiring is not colour coded, I keep a legend on my phone should I need to trouble shoot it, which I have not had to do thank goodness!
IMO
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on December 16, 2017, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 16, 2017, 02:34:23 AM
... you may want those switched off while the starter is engaged (just like the headlight)
....on a circuit that is interrupted when starting. There's a reason why Yamaha designed the system to disconnect load on the battery when the starter is used.
Pat, are you sure about that? I have never seen that function on an FJ (and can't recall seeing it on anything else of that era)
On the USA bikes my headlight is on all the time when my ignition key is on....although it shuts off when I engage the starter. The starter relay drops the light circuit out.
I know there are differences between the USA and other FJ's, e.g. Side stand switch, flash to pass, manual on/off headlight controls, etc.... Noel, try this...turn your key on, turn on your headlight now start the engine....does your headlight go out when the starter is engaged? I'm curious. Cheers Pat
Noel,
I am thinking of making the fuses accessible via the "ash tray" as I never use this. The fact that the relays need to be close to the circuits they are switching to negate volt drop dictates this really, so under that side with a heat shield of sorts should be sufficient - lets face it the rest of the electrics including the CDI is under there.....
What i am trying to avoid is having to disconnect a myriad of wires when removing the fairing so it has to be frame mounted really.
If I use the tail section where will I put my sarnies ?
Quote from: FJools on December 16, 2017, 08:20:04 PM
If I use the tail section where will I put my sarnies ?
In a jaffle iron across your headers with bogged beans in em
Had to look up what a sarnie was
It's just a plain old sambo,
Quote from: FJools on December 16, 2017, 08:20:04 PM
Noel,
I am thinking of making the fuses accessible via the "ash tray" as I never use this. The fact that the relays need to be close to the circuits they are switching to negate volt drop dictates this really, so under that side with a heat shield of sorts should be sufficient - lets face it the rest of the electrics including the CDI is under there.....
What i am trying to avoid is having to disconnect a myriad of wires when removing the fairing so it has to be frame mounted really.
If I use the tail section where will I put my sarnies ?
FJools,
The "ash tray" is where I have my accessroy fuse/distribution block located. I removed the tray itself so when you open the door, the fuses are right in front of you for easy access. Eastern Beaver, Fuzeblock, Twisted Throttle & others are noted however I utulize the Cenetech unit because the fuses are not covered and easily accesible - in fact the fuses that are installed light up should they ever blow for quick ID. Also, the unit is rated for 60 amps which readily handles the amps needed.
The main relay to power the panel is located behind the left side panel for easy access.
I should add that the panel itself is attached to a thick nylon piece that is held in place by the fairing hold down bolt.
After quite a few years and many miles, it has worked well.
Re: the tail section - that is where the tool kit, tire patch kit & CO2 cartridges are stored.
Ride safe,
Midget
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 16, 2017, 11:48:07 AM
Noel, try this...turn your key on, turn on your headlight now start the engine....does your headlight go out when the starter is engaged? I'm curious. Cheers Pat
Pat, I know humour can be a fickle thing on the net but I'll assume you were not being serious.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on December 16, 2017, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 16, 2017, 02:34:23 AM
... you may want those switched off while the starter is engaged (just like the headlight)
....on a circuit that is interrupted when starting. There's a reason why Yamaha designed the system to disconnect load on the battery when the starter is used.
Pat, are you sure about that? I have never seen that function on an FJ (and can't recall seeing it on anything else of that era)
Quote from: ribbert on December 17, 2017, 06:51:33 AM
Pat, I know humour can be a fickle thing on the net but I'll assume you were not being serious.
Oh, ok, so you were kidding (you got me).... I have been surprised before on the differences between FJ's from different regions.
With your manual on/off controls on the headlight, it would not surprise me if you did not have the headlight interrupt in the starting mode.
Move along folks....nothing to see here... :pardon:
Quote from: FJools on December 16, 2017, 08:20:04 PM
Noel,
I am thinking of making the fuses accessible via the "ash tray" as I never use this. The fact that the relays need to be close to the circuits they are switching to negate volt drop dictates this really, so under that side with a heat shield of sorts should be sufficient - lets face it the rest of the electrics including the CDI is under there.....
What i am trying to avoid is having to disconnect a myriad of wires when removing the fairing so it has to be frame mounted really.
If I use the tail section where will I put my sarnies ?
The relays don't need to be close to the circuits they are switching to negate voltage drop. At the distances the wires have to run on a bike voltage drop from wire length is very very negligible. Put the relays anywhere it is convenient on the bike. Voltage drop from the battery to the coils is the result of passing through old dirty switches and bad connections. Using the original wires to activate the relay coil will work even with some voltage drop. Wiring direct from the battery to the relay and then to the coils with the relay mod means no lost voltage through the old circuit. A lot of the voltage drop on our bikes is through the old and worn keyed main switch.
Dave--old retired electrician
Dave,
agreed, but I don't want "heaps" of extra copper running all over the place and less is more as they say and every break point creates resistance which will increase with age.
The relay contacts themselves will add to that eventually. The old operating switches used to switch the relays will handle far less current so as you say are will do fine.
So the convenient place for me is under the fairing.
I agree that the ignition switch can be a prime culprit for volt drop and mine is probably due for replacement as I have noticed it needs a positive flick on at times. Maybe a squirt of contact cleaner will help.
Well Jools sounds like you have a good plan.
Dave
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 17, 2017, 11:23:37 AM
Oh, ok, so you were kidding (you got me)....
?????? -
something must have been lost in translation, I was neither kidding nor setting you up.
Pat, I was serious when I asked you if you were sure the headlight cuts out, that's very early for that feature and I thought you were just winding me up by suggesting I don't know how my own bike works (by asking me to check it) After all, suggesting I don't already know what the h'light does when the starter is engaged is a bit like asking if I know how to get air into my tyres! (I just googled that in case you actually asked me :biggrin:)
Some might find that offensive, but not me.
To answer you question, I have a '93 and a couple of others around that vintage. The headlight is not switched and does not cut out when the starter is engaged. It dims from the draw of the starter on the battery, as any similarly equipped vehicle does, but that's it, it definitely does not "switch off" while cranking like later model bikes. I have a bike that does that and one where the headlight won't come on until the engine fires up.
The reason I asked if you were sure about it is that the cut out feature is a later rather than an earlier one and it seems odd that Yamaha would introduce it then discontinue it on the later models such as mine. The dimming light can easily be confused with it switching off. It is not one of those features that you would think would change between markets either, it has nothing to do with regs or emissions.
As always, I am happy to proven wrong (learn something) and I lay no claim to being an expert on FJ model differences.
Pat, to echo your suggestion to me, perhaps you could check yours to make sure it is actually switching off, not just dimming.
Noel
I know that on my 1989, when The start button is pushed, there is a voltage interrupt that kills voltage to the headlight, I will try to verify this on the electrical drawing when I get home. I am about to leave work in 15 minutes. I rode the '95 in and since it is still very dark out, I will check and verify whether or not my particular bike's headlight stays on, dims, or goes out completely when I push the start button.
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on December 18, 2017, 05:48:46 AM
I know that on my 1989, when The start button is pushed, there is a voltage interrupt that kills voltage to the headlight, I will try to verify this on the electrical drawing when I get home. I am about to leave work in 15 minutes. I rode the '95 in and since it is still very dark out, I will check and verify whether or not my particular bike's headlight stays on, dims, or goes out completely when I push the start button.
Fred
Thanks Fred, that would be excellent.
Noel
What I recall from doing the headlight relay mod a bazillion yewars ago:
On the '85, headlight goes out when the starter button is pressed.
On the '93, headlight stays on.
The headlight turning out (on whichever models have it) is a debugging clue to a sticking/dirty starter button. That and the oil light staying on.
Yes, my '84's headlight switches off, for sure...so, it looks like Yamaha discontinued this, (along with self canceling turn signals) in later models. Perhaps when Yamaha went to the bigger battery, they felt the headlight interrupt was unnecessary?
I'll be darned...
You've got me thinking now. I'm pretty sure the 86 cuts the headlight and had self canceling indicators and doesn't leave the oil light on when you press the starter. So long as it starts I'm happy.
Andy, with the key on, flip your handlebar run/stop switch over to the stop position...now thumb the starter button, your red oil level light and fuel light should illuminate.
That's the way the Owners Handbook describes on how to check those light bulbs in your cluster.
My FZ1 turns the headlight off while cranking.
On my BMW, the headlight doesn't come on until the motor is running.