I was wondering if any of you had tips for prepping an engine after 19 years of down time. It ran great before allowing it to sit, other than the float needle seat o-rings being worn, allowing fuel to overflow. I've got new float needle seat o-rings, and a new petcock. Going to remove the rust from tank with Rusteco, will also replace all rubber lines soon. A few years ago I put about 2 tablespoons of Mystery Oil in each cylinder, and cranked it over by hand with a ratchet, it was smooth and easy. I'm replacing the battery, oil and oil filter of course and will clean and oil my stock air filter "K&N" replacement filter. Though I'll probably replace the airbox and K&N with the small pod filters in the near future. I'm also currently cleaning out all the carbs.
For about 8 years it was stored under a 2' deep house soffit with a MC cover & blue plastic tarp. So it was not directly exposed to rain, but is was to atmospheric moisture, dew & humidity (very humid here).
Somewhere I read that it would be a good idea to remove the plugs and valve cover, and crank it a few seconds to ensure oil got to the camshafts/valves; oil pump working/no substantial clogs.
Could crud have built up in the oil cooler, due to no flow?
What tips do you have to ensure that she doesn't break, upon initial attempt to start, a sort of insurance policy against catastrophic failure?
P.S. What do any of you think about the Colortune product?
I'd say you have it pretty much covered.
Clean oil and filter, clean carbs and replace O-rings, clean air filter.
You might want to put a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder through the plug hole and crank it over by hand a couple of revs.
Fresh fuel
Pull the choke out fully and....
Push the starter button.
I wouldn't bother removing the valve cover unless you're going to check and set the valves.
You'll probably have to replace the valve cover gasket and the grommets, but not just to start it.
Good luck,
I remember years ago if we had an engine that had not been run for a long time or there was concern that the rings might be stuck. Putting a little ATF down in the cylinders and letting it sit for a few days really helped. ATF seemed to brake down carbon around the rings. Hope this helps.
Kurt
Thanks for the food for thought guys, it really is helpful.
I guess you can tell that I'm a little stressed about bringing her back to life, it's just that I really can't afford any screw-ups, it's a budget issue. Also we really need backup transportation, as our Honda (car) has got quite a few miles on it. And between my broken down P/U F-150, and the bike, well I definitely get better gas mileage with the bike, of course you're also exposed to the elements. OK let's face it, the bike is a lot more fun! :smile:
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 16, 2014, 06:13:51 PM
A few years ago I put about 2 tablespoons of Mystery Oil in each cylinder, and cranked it over by hand with a ratchet, it was smooth and easy.
G'day,
I simply pulled the plugs out of my '80 GSX 750 (Project Shirley) , cranked it over a few times to make sure all things that should move did, filled the float bowls with fuel, replaced the plugs and started it up ... After 11 years in storage. Wow what a sound. And it went straight to idle when I let go of the throttle.
"Mystery Oil" ?
This is not ther first time I've seen this product mentioned. I was looking for an Australian outlet. I understand it removes surface rust like nothing else.
Be Good.
Macca
Yes Tony, that's one of my main concerns, corrosion, especially uneven corrosion, I'm talking amongst the cylinders. Inevitably, any particular combination of valves were probably open during the time it was outdoors under that soffit and tarp, exposed to the elements. So now there's potential at having corrosion in one cylinder around a particular set of intake valves, and in another cylinder around a particular set of exhaust valves, such that some cylinders may now be stronger or weaker than others, in various ways. I saw a marine applied V8 come apart in this way. Of course upon removing the head, one cylinder looked as though it had actually had water poured into it, that actually stayed there, not seeping past the rings, for an extended amount of time. The operator of the boat was wondering why the engine seemed sluggish, Yeah I know, they sucked at maintenance. They felt they had to immediately entertain at that moment of unexpected guests arriving, even though the boat had sat for some time. If it hadn't been a big block Chevy engine, we probably wouldn't have made it out onto the river. Needless to say we were towed back to the dock. :hang1: The ultimate shame for it's owner.
In addition, I live in an area of a decent amount of rainfall giving rise to many forms of life. True story, I have actually found tiny rodent nests in the air filter box's of two different auto's. These animals actually climbed up my tires, suspension, etc, finding the opening for the air box, climbed in and made nests, and I'm not so sure that I didn't actually start it up and drive around with the nests in place. Thank god they didn't eat through the paper filter, they actually used stuff they brought in for nest building. There were actual small nuts, and seeds in the air box.
Now I don't know of any mammals that could fit through a valve opening, getting trapped in the cylinder and dieing, but insects are quite another story. I found several spider silk nurseries, (then empty), in carburetors and other such parts that were sitting on a shelf, that clogged up ports, etc., and I don't know what insect exoskeletons would/could do to a cylinder/valves, but I don't necessarily want to find out the hard way. Of course I really don't want to crack the head to visually inspect it either, and I own no borescope; cost prohibitive. Even if I could rent one, I could only check the pistons as I know of no borescope that has a remotely articulated probe, so as to inspect all four valves via the plug orifice.
Yeah I know I shouldn't have ever let it sit like that simply due to the need of a set of o-rings and possibly needle valves, but I easily got sidetracked with the dramas of the day, rearing a child on a tight budget. The joke is that now at this age, half-heimer's seems to be setting in. :wacko1:
Oh, and thanks for your help; see what I mean? :wacko1:
Sorry wrong thread!
Ok, you're worried about UN-equal corrosion in the cylinders.
So? If it starts and runs then it works and will gradually become more evenly worn over time.
But, like that small block chevy... This is an FJ 1200 and even running at 1/3 to 1/2 its original output, it will still outrun 90% plus of all the other vehicles on the road. Without doubt, you'll have "enough" power to be as safe as you are on any bike.
If it doesn't start, or runs too poorly for your taste, then start worrying about what you're willing, and able, and can afford to do to fix it.
Waiting another week or month or year is only going to make however bad it is, worse. So, go change oil, filters, fuel, and spark plugs (and jump the battery from your car) then try to start it. Tell us how it goes.
Quote from: Arnie on July 18, 2014, 10:45:15 AM
Ok, you're worried about UN-equal corrosion in the cylinders.
So? If it starts and runs then it works and will gradually become more evenly worn over time.
But, like that small block chevy... This is an FJ 1200 and even running at 1/3 to 1/2 its original output, it will still outrun 90% plus of all the other vehicles on the road. Without doubt, you'll have "enough" power to be as safe as you are on any bike.
If it doesn't start, or runs too poorly for your taste, then start worrying about what you're willing, and able, and can afford to do to fix it.
Waiting another week or month or year is only going to make however bad it is, worse. So, go change oil, filters, fuel, and spark plugs (and jump the battery from your car) then try to start it. Tell us how it goes.
My current engine was sitting outside with a tarp over it that had blown off when I bought it. 2 cylinders had water in them and a few valves stems had bubbling rust and were stuck open. When I tipped it over, orange water ran out of the inlet ports and I could see rust on the cylinder wall. I chipped the bulk of the rust off the valve stem with a screw driver, sprayed all sorts of stuff in there and nudged it repeatedly with the piston until it no long hit and would turn a couple of full revolutions by hand.
I didn't have great expectations for it but when I fired it up it only took half a minute or so to kick in on all 4 cylinders. 20,000 kms later it burns no oil, runs like a swiss watch and while I have never bothered with a compression test, the all sound even to the ear, which is good enough for me.
The engine was only intended as a stop gap but it runs so well and so hard I can't be bothered changing it over for the original. If it keeps going like it is I probably never will (I do not like working on my bike)
My loose test for how well the bike's running is if it will float the front wheel from 6000rpm in second on 18/41 gearing, and this motor does.
Noel
Thanks Noel, for the, "This is how tough the FJ engine really is," story, as it has calmed my nerves a bit, as I know my engine is nowhere near that bad.
Obviously, I have never treated a vehicle this bad before, or I wouldn't be so nervous. Questions are all about experience, which are in fact unique with every individual, they're arbitrary, unable to be accounted for.
Thanks to all those that have shared their experiences, as this is what I'm looking for, meters so as to compare my particular situation.
I'll let you guys know how it goes, when it goes, even if it's south.
Thanks again, and have a good one!
JoBrCo
Quote from: Arnie on July 18, 2014, 10:45:15 AM
So, go change oil, filters, fuel, and spark plugs (and jump the battery from your car) then try to start it.
Not over thinking this too much I hope, but I'd pull the valve cover and spark plugs and then spin it with the starter until oil is pumping to the top of the engine. You've done the best thing you can for the cylinders at this point, but getting oil to the journal bearings using the slow spin of the starter will make them much happier when she fires up.
Frank
Key for me would be, along with a cylinder presoak, turn the crank gently with a socket (on the timing rotor nut) so if you do have a frozen ring(s) you won't snap them by using the starter motor.
Do you think that one could turn the engine fast enough with a wrench, to prime the oil system? I am not taking about bringing it up pressure just refilling all the passages and oil filter. When rebuilding car engines, I like to prime the oil system with a drill. This would be with the valve cover off and plugs removed. Thoughts, is this possible?
Kurt
Remember the direction of the rotation of the engine as it relates to the (left side) ignition rotor bolt.
You could try it....until you end up loosening the bolt when you spin it counterclockwise.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 18, 2014, 03:39:19 PM
turn the crank gently with a socket...
He did this already I thought... with the Mystery Oil in there. If not, absolutely turn by hand a half dozen times or so.
Frank
Oops, yep, he already did that.....
Carry on....
This topic is getting a tad over thought.
The motor ran when it was last used so there's nothing wrong with it.
If you can rotate it freely by hand, nothing that matters is stuck.
It hasn't been disassembled so there will be oil everywhere.
FJ's get oil to the top end almost instantly, even when they have been in bits (It spends more time running without oil pressure when you change the filter)
The extent to which rust in the cylinders or on the valves is a problem can only be determined after you start it.
9 minutes, 9 months, 9 years......there is virtually nothing (exposure to moisture excluded) in an engine that deteriorates with time alone. Even modern seals seem to last well.
Leave the old oil filter on, it's already full of oil, and fire it up, keep the revs low for few minutes. After the oil is warm and any sediment dislodged, change the oil and filter.
I have a motor on my bench at the moment that hasn't run in 80 years. It's worth a lot more than an FJ motor, it's not mine and I'm certainly not going to risk any thing.
After determining it turns over freely, has compression and oil pump drive isn't sheared ( not something to worry about on the FJ) I will attempt to start it. That's it.
Any damage caused by rust will manifest itself with oil burning, poor compression and so, but that comes after you start it.
Good luck
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on July 18, 2014, 11:50:01 PM
This topic is getting a tad over thought...
Good luck
"fire it up and hope for the best" ...not exactly the Milspec approach. I'm sure you won't do that anyway, but think about the worst case scenario. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.
I'd invest an few ounces of prevention if for no other reason than to make myself feel better if something did go wrong. I sure wouldn't start her up with 20yo oil in there.
Frank
Quote from: Flynt on July 19, 2014, 01:28:30 PM
Quote from: ribbert on July 18, 2014, 11:50:01 PM
This topic is getting a tad over thought...
Good luck
"fire it up and hope for the best" ...not exactly the Milspec approach. I'm sure you won't do that anyway, but think about the worst case scenario. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.
I'd invest an few ounces of prevention if for no other reason than to make myself feel better if something did go wrong. I sure wouldn't start her up with 20yo oil in there.
Frank
You're absolutely right about the oil Frank, draining off what you can of the old stuff and replacing it is a good idea.
As far as the rest of it goes, it not a case of "fire it up and hope for the best". You have already established that the motor turns over freely and IIRC, this bike is his and he knows there was nothing wrong with it when he parked it up.
My point was, people tend to over rate the effects of a motor simply not having been used for a long time. It's an engine, nothing happens to it while it's sitting there. If carbs and exhaust are fitted, even poor storage (open air) should have a minimal effect.
I am certainly not advocating a cavalier approach to the process, just pointing out its a simple one that doesn't need to be over thought and to quell any fears the owner has that it's going to fly into a million bits just because it's been sitting around for a while.
If a motor does have an issue when you start it up it is probably why it was laid up in the first place.
Noel
Thanks again guys!
My plan is to finish the carbs, put some more oil in the cylinders and drizzle some on top of the cams/valves, replace the oil and filter, then start her up, and sync the carbs. After running and testing her for a while, while working on some brake, chain and chassis issues, I plan on changing the oil and filter yet again.
Has anyone used the ColorTune device to set their air/fuel mixture? I was planning on trying one during the initial carb tuning, and was wondering if it's worth the cost.
Here's a story....... not advocating, just telling.
About 20 years ago a mate came across an old IH dozer parked up in the scrub, vines all over it - obviously not moved in many years.
Enquired of the property owner who said he didn't even know it was there, and yes, my mate could have it if he could get it out of there.
We couldn't get near it in a car or even with his tractor, so we walked in the km or 2 with a battery, some oil, fuel and a box of tools.
Hooked the battery up and it wouldn't turn over.
Pulled the head off and with a big block of wood, gave each piston a good whack. Head back on and now it turns over.
Diesel in the tank, water in the radiator and a shot of start-ya-bastard in the inlet manifold........ hit the starter and it starts blowing smoke rings out the exhaust.
As far as i know, that little old dozer is still pulling timber out of the forest and has not even been re-ringed.
So my call on this subject is make sure it turns over. If it does, fire it up and diagnose any problem from there....... as has been said, it was running when it was parked up, so there is no reason to suspect that it will not run again.
Harvy
The Colortune is not required. Start at 3 turns out on the idle mixture screws and go from there using the blip test.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on July 20, 2014, 07:43:27 PM
The Colortune is not required. Start at 3 turns out on the idle mixture screws and go from there using the blip test.
Blip Test??? Please expound, as I'm not familiar with the procedures or required equipment.
TIA
JoBrCo
Found the blip test. When they say blip the throttle do they mean to very rapidly twist it then just as rapidly let it go?
Just blip the throttle off idle. A quick slight twist and release. Don't need to rev it over 3K.
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 21, 2014, 04:47:34 PM
Found the blip test.
Could also be called the "flick" test... I use fingers and thumb to flick the throttle open and then release.
Frank
Not to cause turmoil, but "Flick" does seem to be more descriptive as to what's actually taking place, as in a "flick of the wrist." The only way I've ever heard "Blip" used was in reference to a RADAR contact on a scope, and while they are instantaneously painted, then fade due to the phosphors temporary excitation, the contact is still there waiting for the antennas next sweep. Some actions are just hard to summarize with one word, so as to be concise.
So thanks guys, for the clarification, I'm sure I understand the process now.
Yesterday I was working on remounting the swing arm and ran into a problem, the #37 Seal, Guard (http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport#/Yamaha/FJ1100NC_-_1985/SWING_ARM/FJ1100NC_%281985_MOTORCYCLE%29/SWING_ARM_%28FJ1100NC_-_1985%29) (chain guard) P/N 36Y-22151-01-00 cracked when I reattached it, brittle after all these years, I had cleaned it several years ago with gasoline, but in hindsight I should have then sprayed it with a light to medium oil, before placing it in a plastic bag and setting it aside, as putting oil on plastic tends to make it more supple. Gasoline does the opposite, leaching out the plasticizers. Sometimes I could kick myself in the ass. :dash2:
Has anyone successfully repaired this item? I was thinking about either epoxying/super gluing it to the the side of the swingarm, or manufacturing a part much like #27 WASHER, PLATE (http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport#/Yamaha/FJ1100NC_-_1985/SWING_ARM/FJ1100NC_%281985_MOTORCYCLE%29/SWING_ARM_%28FJ1100NC_-_1985%29) P/N 36Y-22156-00-00 for the upper mounting ear, which is the portion that has cracked almost completely off. I'm thinking that some thin sheet metal could be bent and drilled to sit under that ear/guard, by first heating the metal then pressing it into the bottom of the plastic, making them one, if by looking at the exploded view you can catch my drift. If not I could create a drawing as an attachment.