Hi I posted last weekend about a sudden top end rattle and checked the headpipes-not it-took off valve cover-everything looks allright-I think the cam chain tensioner might not be holding chain tight-looks like carbs will have to come back off to get at it. Anyone have a experience with the Ape YT1000 manual tensioner? Thanks
If you're hell bent on having one, I have a brand new one...
He he, the FJ is a noisy air cooled beast that keeps going regardless of noise...
Before you pull the carbs, you might take an allen wrench and make sure the two bolts that hold the tensioner on are tight. Mine were finger-lose. It's a tight fit but you can get the wrench on them to check.
I would be surprised if it was the cam chain tensioner. But It worth a check. Here is a file to read. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5620.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5620.0)
Comes apart easier than it go's back together... :lol: Just been there, done that..
George
Has anyone ever heard of a stock 86 fj1200 cam chain tensioner backing off a little and allowing some slack in the chain causing a rattle? Thanks
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 08:08:26 PM
Has anyone ever heard of a stock 86 fj1200 cam chain tensioner backing off a little and allowing some slack in the chain causing a rattle? Thanks
If the 12mm main bolt (holding the spring tension) is on tight and the 2 Allen screws holding the whole assembly are on tight then that's it. There is no adjustment. Just spring tension pushing against a piston on to the chain guide.
George
No, it is a ratcheting tensioner and would require the ratchet mechanism to strip to loose tension.
Randy - RPM
No, but I do believe you're halfway to the record for starting multiple threads on the same topic... :pardon:
here is a picture.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3ATensioner (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3ATensioner)
I won't post any more posts on my top end rattle because I DO NOT want to break the record(the record holder might get upset)-but I did forget to mention the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
...... the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
...and a bit more, over and over and over........
Noel
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
I won't post any more posts on my top end rattle because I DO NOT want to break the record(the record holder might get upset)-but I did forget to mention the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
Are you sure it did not spit a valve shim?
Randy. - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on May 17, 2014, 11:34:42 PM
Are you sure it did not spit a valve shim?
Randy. - RPM
Does that happen? :shok:
Quote from: FJmonkey on May 18, 2014, 12:43:54 AM
Does that happen? :shok:
Yep, just had to repair Poker007's 1100 a couple months back from that exact thing. He too was riding the bike pretty hard when it spit out the shim and broke it into a bunch of little pieces.
If it gets spooled up enough to have valve float, the shim losses contact with the cam lobe. Then when the valve slams shut against the seat, the shim can pop out of the bucket.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on May 18, 2014, 10:31:19 AM
If it gets spooled up enough to have valve float, the shim losses contact with the cam lobe.
How "spooled up" do you need to be for that? I'm running around at 6-8K with occasional 9K+ bursts these days... did you make my beasty float proof?
Frank
High revs and old valvesprings aren't a good combination.
....and if your valves are loose to begin with...
Quote from: Flynt on May 18, 2014, 10:44:32 AM
How "spooled up" do you need to be for that? I'm running around at 6-8K with occasional 9K+ bursts these days... did you make my beasty float proof?
Frank
Yes, you have better valve springs and you can run up to the red-line without any issue. The issue is the old, stock 20-30 year old valve springs that loose there seat pressure and let the valve(s) float.
Pat, in my experience, it has nothing to do with valve adjustment but more of the lack of ability of the valve spring to keep the valve seated when it slams closed. The valve actually will bounce back open and the shim which is dislodge from the bucket can now pop out.
Randy - RPM
Okey doke....Spitting shims: is that why racers convert over to shim under bucket?
That tensioner design is pretty good IMO. I have had the rubber tip disintegrate which used up all the travel but it still applied tension on the blade.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 18, 2014, 11:14:30 AM
Okey doke....Spitting shims: is that why racers convert over to shim under bucket?
That's what I did Pat. The real plus is the shim is so much smaller (and lighter) than the original. My uses the 13mm shim but the newest retainers us the 9mm shim. That and the Ti retainer lighten the assembly by quite a bit. The problem I have seen with the SOB Ti retainers is they can "egg" out especially on valvetrains with steep valve angles. You'd think it wouldn't make a difference as the bucket is taking all the side load but that's what I have experienced. I'd recommend getting the retainers Ti nitrided or better yet DLC. These are the best solution as the retainers are steel. They aren't available for the FJ (as far as I know) and are very pricey as you still have to purchase the buckets. http://japan.webike.net/products/9513304.html (http://japan.webike.net/products/9513304.html)
Thanks Mike, that's interesting....
I guessing the major draw back on the shim under bucket design (for street bikes) would be that every time you do an adjustment, you have to remove and reinstall the cams...and all that involves.
Also... I've always wondered....To distribute the wear from the cam lobes, with the shim under the bucket, do the buckets rotate as freely as the shims do (when the shims are over the bucket)
Good stuff...
Honestly, it takes less time to pull the cams than you'd think. Just shimmed mine (mostly, have to order an oddball size apparently), and found it vastly faster to just measure everything and pull the cams.
Once you've got the crap out of the way, same as if you were using the normal tool hold-down thing, ziptie the camchain tightly to the sprockets, remove the tower (four bolts), remove the tensioner (two bolts) and then pull the camcaps off. Easy, and means that you can cruise through the swaps very rapidly, though I had to change a rather high number of shims. If I was doing just one or something, it'd probably have been the hard way to do things.
Quote from: andyb on May 18, 2014, 02:58:55 PM
Honestly, it takes less time to pull the cams than you'd think. Just shimmed mine (mostly, have to order an oddball size apparently), and found it vastly faster to just measure everything and pull the cams.
Once you've got the crap out of the way, same as if you were using the normal tool hold-down thing, ziptie the camchain tightly to the sprockets, remove the tower (four bolts), remove the tensioner (two bolts) and then pull the camcaps off. Easy, and means that you can cruise through the swaps very rapidly, though I had to change a rather high number of shims. If I was doing just one or something, it'd probably have been the hard way to do things.
I agree especially on the FJ as there is plenty of room to work. The method you describe is spot on. :good:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 18, 2014, 12:26:48 PM
Thanks Mike, that's interesting....
I guessing the major draw back on the shim under bucket design (for street bikes) would be that every time you do an adjustment, you have to remove and reinstall the cams...and all that involves.
Also... I've always wondered....To distribute the wear from the cam lobes, with the shim under the bucket, do the buckets rotate as freely as the shims do (when the shims are over the bucket)
Good stuff...
Yes Pat...the buckets still rotate. The very small angle ground into the cam lobes is what cause the spinning. Yoshimura has always made nice mechanical pieces. They are hooked up with the same Japanese manufactures that produce OEM equipment.
Yea but....to get to the cam chain tensioner you have to pull the carbs and heat shield off......
I agree....you can say that everything's out of the way..... Everything.
Thanks for the answer Mike...
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 18, 2014, 04:16:12 PM
Yea but....to get to the cam chain tensioner you have to pull the carbs and heat shield off......
I agree....you can say that everything's out of the way..... Everything.
Thanks for the answer Mike...
Very true my friend. :yes: BUT...if you have ever had to work on a modern CBR, GSXR or R1 you would change your mind. Those things absolutely blow to work on starting from removing the body panels Pat. :negative: No room once you are in there too. The FJ is like working on the Ponderosa.....big and rangy. And I know you know what the Ponderosa is. :biggrin:
Quote from: JMR on May 18, 2014, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 18, 2014, 04:16:12 PM
Yea but....to get to the cam chain tensioner you have to pull the carbs and heat shield off......
I agree....you can say that everything's out of the way..... Everything.
Thanks for the answer Mike...
Very true my friend. :yes: BUT...if you have ever had to work on a modern CBR, GSXR or R1 you would change your mind. Those things absolutely blow to work on starting from removing the body panels Pat. :negative: No room once you are in there too. The FJ is like working on the Ponderosa.....big and rangy. And I know you know what the Ponderosa is. :biggrin:
Just like the Australian's like it judging by "Whole Lotta Rosie". :rofl2: Love that song. :good:
I think I found the cause of my rattle. The tensioner is fully extended and there's still slack in the chain. Bad news
How do know the tensioner was fully extended?
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on May 18, 2014, 08:56:12 PM
How do know the tensioner was fully extended?
Randy - RPM
I could see from the top down the tunnel
If you really want to know, remove the center bolt and spring before carefully removing the tensioner. Them you can determine if it is fully extended.
Where is there slack in the chain?
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on May 18, 2014, 09:15:15 PM
If you really want to know, remove the center bolt and spring before carefully removing the tensioner. Them you can determine if it is fully extended.
Where is there slack in the chain?
Randy - RPM
I removed it and it was fully extended-before I removed it I spun the engine in both directions with a wrench and I could hear a rattle at certain spots on both sides of the tunnel
Quote from: Ront on May 18, 2014, 09:29:13 PM
I removed it and it was fully extended-before I removed it I spun the engine in both directions with a wrench and I could hear a rattle at certain spots on both sides of the tunnel
Did you remove the center bolt and spring prior to the removal? If not it ratcheted all the way out as you unbolted it.
The chain is not very tight in relation. When one cam comes over to the heel side of the lobe it can slack the chain while the other side holds it tight.
I have never seen a fully extended timing chain tensioner removed from any running FJ, only ones with broken timing chains.
If you want to try the APE tensioner you can find it here;
Manual Timing Chain Tensioner (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3AManualTensioner)
How is the cam timing?
If the chain was stretched completely out to full extension of the tensioner then both of the cams would be extremely retarded when aligning the TDC timing mark.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on May 18, 2014, 09:43:27 PM
Quote from: Ront on May 18, 2014, 09:29:13 PM
I removed it and it was fully extended-before I removed it I spun the engine in both directions with a wrench and I could hear a rattle at certain spots on both sides of the tunnel
Did you remove the center bolt and spring prior to the removal? If not it ratcheted all the way out as you unbolted it.
The chain is not very tight in relation. When one cam comes over to the heel side of the lobe it can slack the chain while the other side holds it tight.
I have never seen a fully extended timing chain tensioner removed from any running FJ, only ones with broken timing chains.
I'll taker a close look thanks a lot for the advice-before the rattle started the bike ran very well-thanks
If you want to try the APE tensioner you can find it here;
Manual Timing Chain Tensioner (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3AManualTensioner)
How is the cam timing?
If the chain was stretched completely out to full extension of the tensioner then both of the cams would be extremely retarded when aligning the TDC timing mark.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on May 18, 2014, 09:43:27 PM
Quote from: Ront on May 18, 2014, 09:29:13 PM
I removed it and it was fully extended-before I removed it I spun the engine in both directions with a wrench and I could hear a rattle at certain spots on both sides of the tunnel
Did you remove the center bolt and spring prior to the removal? If not it ratcheted all the way out as you unbolted it.
The chain is not very tight in relation. When one cam comes over to the heel side of the lobe it can slack the chain while the other side holds it tight.
I have never seen a fully extended timing chain tensioner removed from any running FJ, only ones with broken timing chains.
If you want to try the APE tensioner you can find it here;
Manual Timing Chain Tensioner (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3AManualTensioner)
How is the cam timing?
If the chain was stretched completely out to full extension of the tensioner then both of the cams would be extremely retarded when aligning the TDC timing mark.
Randy - RPM
I'll take a close look-before the rattle started the bike ran very well-thanks a lot for the advice
I may have been wrong about tensioner being fully extended-I reinstalled the tensioner, rotated the engine a few times(cams are in time)and removed tensioner spring first-It's only about halfway extended. Is it possible that the automatic tensioner just isn't providing quite enough tension? Thanks again
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
I did forget to mention the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
Okay, why on earth would you EVER need/want to do this? Yes, you CAN do it, but you must remember you're doing it to a 25+ year old motor. It's one thing to rev an engine under load to high RPM, but without a load and zinging it to full throttle is something you probably want to avoid doing, and especially on a cold motor.
I've seen/heard squids doing this on their crotch rockets seemingly just to hear the rev limiter kick in (and on a stone cold motor). The technology and reliability of modern motorcycle engines is truely amazing, but treat them like shit and that's what you'll get eventually.
The FJ motor may be fully capable of withstanding this kind of treatment, but from your sample of one, it doesn't sound like it.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on May 19, 2014, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
I did forget to mention the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
Okay, why on earth would you EVER need/want to do this? Yes, you CAN do it, but you must remember you're doing it to a 25+ year old motor. It's one thing to rev an engine under load to high RPM, but without a load and zinging it to full throttle is something you probably want to avoid doing, and especially on a cold motor.
I've seen/heard squids doing this on their crotch rockets seemingly just to hear the rev limiter kick in (and on a stone cold motor). The technology and reliability of modern motorcycle engines is truely amazing, but treat them like shit and that's what you'll get eventually.
The FJ motor may be fully capable of withstanding this kind of treatment, but from your sample of one, it doesn't sound like it.
He didn't say he was doing it on the side stand?
The fuck's the point of having a big motor if you can't use it? Yes, a healthy motor should handle semi-frequent redline excursions.
You need to have a load against it, if you're doing it in neutral in the garage, then yes, you're a moron and should have your fingers chopped off. Ditto on a cold motor... it takes oil quite a long time to get up to operating temp, and you shouldn't abuse the motor until it's warm.
He didn't say he was doing it on the side stand?
No he didn't.
Could be a bad assumption on my part. I got that impression from the phrasing of I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle that he was just grabbing a big handful of throttle in neutral.
I have no problem with running a motor hard when under a load.
Long time ago, there was a guy at work who ask me to come listen to a noise his bike was making. We walked on to the parking lot in the afternoon, the bike had been sitting there all day and was stone cold. He cranks it up and when it catches he twists the throttle into teh rev limiter. I couldn't hit the kill switch fast enough. I told him whatever the problem was, I wasn't interested in fixing it.
Quote from: andyb on May 19, 2014, 02:12:28 PM
The fuck's the point of having a big motor if you can't use it? Yes, a healthy motor should handle semi-frequent redline excursions.
The reason I'm riding around on a 1200cc bike is so I don't have to bounce the thing off of redline to use that big motor. If I wanted to rattle my teeth fillings out, I'd be doing it on a Ninja 250.
I'm sure you're one of the exceptions, Andy, with your performance background. But, aside from those that have done serious rebuilds, how many here truly know the history and health of their used motor?
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on May 19, 2014, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
I did forget to mention the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
Okay, why on earth would you EVER need/want to do this? Yes, you CAN do it, but you must remember you're doing it to a 25+ year old motor. It's one thing to rev an engine under load to high RPM, but without a load and zinging it to full throttle is something you probably want to avoid doing, and especially on a cold motor.
I've seen/heard squids doing this on their crotch rockets seemingly just to hear the rev limiter kick in (and on a stone cold motor). The technology and reliability of modern motorcycle engines is truely amazing, but treat them like shit and that's what you'll get eventually.
The FJ motor may be fully capable of withstanding this kind of treatment, but from your sample of one, it doesn't sound like it.
I would never do it not under load-where did you get that idea? I was on the highway
Quote from: Ront on May 20, 2014, 12:17:45 AM
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
I did forget to mention the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
I would never do it not under load-where did you get that idea? I was on the highway
FWIW, from your first statement, I got the same impression that Hooligan did... that the bike was stationary and not under load. :pardon:
Quote from: not a lib on May 20, 2014, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: Ront on May 20, 2014, 12:17:45 AM
Quote from: Ront on May 17, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
I did forget to mention the rattle started after I revved the bike to 8 grand full throttle but I should be able to do that right?
I would never do it not under load-where did you get that idea? I was on the highway
FWIW, from your first statement, I got the same impression that Hooligan did... that the bike was stationary and not under load. :pardon:
I have seen those morons on youtube revving their bikes stationary to the rev limiter or valve bounce or when it can't suck and blow any more, whatever, and leave it there. Idiots. Do it on a cold motor and they should be shot.
Quote from: andyb on May 19, 2014, 02:12:28 PM
You need to have a load against it, if you're doing it in neutral in the garage, then yes, you're a moron and should have your fingers chopped off.
I'm afraid I don't agree with you on this Andy, a blip to 8 grand stationary, while serving no purpose, will do no harm. It is under load while it is gaining revs and backing off is no different to backing off on the road, except the revs drop quicker and the end of the main straight is where engines most commonly blow up, when the load is taken off them.
Quote from: andyb on May 19, 2014, 02:12:28 PM
The fuck's the point of having a big motor if you can't use it? Yes, a healthy motor should handle semi-frequent redline excursions.
I agree with you on this. The fact a motor is 25 years old and unknown history / condition is irrelevant. Unless there is something specifically wrong with it, that is what it is built to do. There is no shortage of accounts of guys riding these with the throttle pinned to the stop for hours on end. Can't do it these days but I, and every one I knew in 80's, did many trips like that. These engines are not old and fragile.
As Hooligan says, the most frequently used byproduct of big capacity, big power is access to lazy low down power an torque, but it's still fun using it's full potential when the moment takes you.
I never bother revving mine out in 1st gear but 2nd and 3rd regularly get a hiding and 4th probably 3 or 4 times every day ride when I think I can get away with it.
Where I live, redline in 1st will see you at the state speed limit, 2nd will see the bike impounded and loss of licence, 3rd will cost you a LOT of money and lose the bike, 4th will get a mention on the 7 o'clock news and 5th runs a serious risk of getting
yourself impounded and the Police Commissioner himself will comment on it.
So,you sneak it in when you can, I love ripping through the gears but most of the time you just can't but it has nothing to do with mollycoddling the bike.
While we're on the subject, I appear to be the only one running 18/41. I am very happy with that and have just replaced the same.
Noel
Probably the biggest problem with winding a motor up hard without a load is overshooting the target revs. I've heard a racer say that there's a danger to the camchain during high rpm/no load use, but I don't know what the rationale was. He compared doing this with exactly what you describe: rolling out of the throttle at the end of a land speed run instead of pulling the clutch and using the brakes to bring the speed back down.
Dunno, I use my engines to redline frequently on the dragstrip. Making sure the engine is warm first is key, both to ensure lubrication and to make it carbuerate cleanly at light throttle openings so you can accurately hold your stage rpm where you want it without creeping.
Though I also am a fan of measuring compression and leakdown on used motors when I buy something, along with an oil analysis on the second oil change, so other than metal fatigue and maybe bearing wear... I'd say that they're not unknown anymore after that?
Andy, you would know this.....In the past I have heard that in certain high rpm racing situations the oem cam chain tensioner can fail....the reason the racers use the APE manual chain adjuster.
Can you explain? TIA. Pat
I think mostly it's a problem of the aftermarket tensioners being a fairly cheap "performance" mod, honestly.
Maybe Randy can chime in a bit with more specific FJ information on it.
The only real crap stock CCT's that I know of are limited to a handful of engines. The early Hayabusa went through what, 3 revisions on them? I think they final settled on one that is somehow linked to oil pressure. and I understand they're a bastard to work around. I don't know much about the older KZ/GS stuff, but understand they're popular on those engines; they may or may not be actually necessary. Honda had a reputation for camchain issues with high miles on a number of their motors, but I thought it was the chain itself rather than the tensioner. Dunno, don't see more than a couple machines at the track that aren't Kaw or Suzuki these days.
I'm still surprised that I haven't seen a Ti (or some other exotic material) camchain for popular bikes. Seems like it'd be a natural fit for people trying to reduce rotating mass a bit.
Personally, I prefer having the OEM automatic adjustment to yet another thing that can get screwed up during a major service.
Hi I posted about my '86 fj1200 top end rattle last week-checked the cam chain tensioner, put the carbs back on and started it, ran well, no noise at idle but rattle still there starts at 1500rpm and now oil pouring out between cylinders 2 and 3 front of motor about a half inch above cylinder block base in recesses in cylinder block so looks like major problems. Can you pull head and cylinder block with engine in bike? Also does anyone know the cost to re-ring or would I have to bore cylinders and go to to oversize pistons. Thanks
Did you replace the tensioner gasket after removal?
Where you able to install the tensioner in the proper direction with the one-way cam downward?
Randy - RPM
Bonehead move forgot the tensioner gasket but was able to install with cam down thanks still have the rattle
Quote from: Ront on May 23, 2014, 11:05:18 AM
Also does anyone know the cost to re-ring or would I have to bore cylinders and go to to oversize pistons. Thanks
Hey Ron,
I did a full engine rebuild on my '92 that included new rings. You first have to measure the cylinder bores properly with a cylinder bore gauge in six places in *each* cylinder. You then do a bunch of math with these 24 measurements. This will determine if the cylinder is still within wear specs for bore size and out of round condition. If they are still within spec, you can get away with a "freshening hone" on the cylinder walls (about $80 at my local machine shop) and a new set of standard sized piston rings (about $42 each set x4). If you find the cylinders out of spec, you'll have to consider your oversize boring options.
Remotely diagnosing "noises" is difficult at the best of times. Is it a rattle, a tick, a knock, a light knock, a deep knock, is consistent, does it change with load or temperature, where it coming from and so on.
Contemplating rings and / or re-bore because your running out of ideas is an expensive and not necessarily guaranteed cure. It would cost you about $1300 to re-bore it with machining and piston kit if you did the job yourself. While it is not uncommon for members here to do this job themselves, it would be foolish and asking for more trouble if you under estimate the finesse, dexterity and basic knowledge required for a satisfactory outcome. Leaving out the cam chain tensioner gasket and turning your motor over backwards does not bode well for doing this yourself.
I had a car brought to me many years ago that had just had a top to bottom engine rebuild, at enormous expense (V8), to rid it of a serious engine rattle, THAT WAS STILL THERE! It turned out to be a broken spring in a $2.00 PCV valve. Pull it out of the rocker cover and it was a light "tick", put it back in and it sounded like a serious knock. The owner was standing next to me when I demonstrated this, he was near purple with rage as the motor was not high mileage and had shown no other signs of wear before the rebuild other than the engine knock.
The assumption that if you just replace everything, the rattle must disappear is not always correct.
IMO your best bet at this point would be to try and find an 'old school mechanic' with an experienced ear to have a listen to it. He could probably tell you with about 90%+ accuracy, exactly what it is from listening to it.
Most of the likely causes seem to have been suggested and worked through to no avail, but just throwing parts at it hoping it will disappear is not the answer.
Noel
Before you tear into it too much, you might give Randy at RPM a week or two for things to calm down a bit with his family situation, then call him and ask him about it.
The guy is an FJ Whisperer! With his vast experience with this motor, it's amazing what he can figure out over the phone. And it might end up being something as simple as Noah's situation.
Quote from: ribbert on May 20, 2014, 10:20:23 AM
I have seen those morons on youtube revving their bikes stationary to the rev limiter or valve bounce or when it can't suck and blow any more, whatever, and leave it there. Idiots. Do it on a cold motor and they should be shot.
God....there would have been a lot of dead bodies around Loudon back in the 80's and 90's. :lol: :lol:
Quote from: ribbert on May 23, 2014, 08:08:27 PM
Remotely diagnosing "noises" is difficult at the best of times. Is it a rattle, a tick, a knock, a light knock, a deep knock, is consistent, does it change with load or temperature, where it coming from and so on.
Contemplating rings and / or re-bore because your running out of ideas is an expensive and not necessarily guaranteed cure. It would cost you about $1300 to re-bore it with machining and piston kit if you did the job yourself. While it is not uncommon for members here to do this job themselves, it would be foolish and asking for more trouble if you under estimate the finesse, dexterity and basic knowledge required for a satisfactory outcome. Leaving out the cam chain tensioner gasket and turning your motor over backwards does not bode well for doing this yourself.
I had a car brought to me many years ago that had just had a top to bottom engine rebuild, at enormous expense (V8), to rid it of a serious engine rattle, THAT WAS STILL THERE! It turned out to be a broken spring in a $2.00 PCV valve. Pull it out of the rocker cover and it was a light "tick", put it back in and it sounded like a serious knock. The owner was standing next to me when I demonstrated this, he was near purple with rage as the motor was not high mileage and had shown no other signs of wear before the rebuild other than the engine knock.
The assumption that if you just replace everything, the rattle must disappear is not always correct.
IMO your best bet at this point would be to try and find an 'old school mechanic' with an experienced ear to have a listen to it. He could probably tell you with about 90%+ accuracy, exactly what it is from listening to it.
Most of the likely causes seem to have been suggested and worked through to no avail, but just throwing parts at it hoping it will disappear is not the answer.
Noel
I don't think you can make a blanket assesment of my mechanical ability just because i left the gasket out-the gasket was missing when I removed the tensioner -I got one at the dealer-Thanks for the advice
Ron, this is the forth time you posted a new thread on the same subject.
Stop it.
Quote from: Ront on May 23, 2014, 10:08:11 PM
I don't think you can make a blanket assesment of my mechanical ability........
You're right, I can't. I can only form a view from what you have posted to date.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on May 23, 2014, 10:44:51 PM
Quote from: Ront on May 23, 2014, 10:08:11 PM
I don't think you can make a blanket assesment of my mechanical ability........
You're right, I can't. I can only form a view from what you have posted to date.
Noel
[/quote
People stop replying to threads after a few days so posting new ones might get some additional input, what the hell is wrong with that?
:negative:
Quote from: Ront on May 23, 2014, 11:17:28 PM
People stop replying to threads after a few days so posting new ones might get some additional input, what the hell is wrong with that?
:negative:
Ron...We're all trying to be helpful here and get your bike sorted out. If you just post an update to your first thread, it bumps it to the top and everyone sees it again and will have a chance to comment...IF they have something constructive to add. I'll be the first one to admit...I wondered why so many people were having a "top end rattle" issue all at the same time.
I replied to your question about a fresh set of rings as a completely different topic. I assume you're looking to do this *after* you get the rattle figured out?
Quote from: Capn Ron on May 23, 2014, 11:23:54 PM
Quote from: Ront on May 23, 2014, 11:17:28 PM
Quote from: ribbert on May 23, 2014, 10:44:51 PM
Quote from: Ront on May 23, 2014, 10:08:11 PM
I don't think you can make a blanket assesment of my mechanical ability........
You're right, I can't. I can only form a view from what you have posted to date.
Noel
[/quote
I did't realize that you could update orginal post sorry-I'm inexperienced
People stop replying to threads after a few days so posting new ones might get some additional input, what the hell is wrong with that?
:negative:
Ron...We're all trying to be helpful here and get your bike sorted out. If you just post an update to your first thread, it bumps it to the top and everyone sees it again and will have a chance to comment...IF they have something constructive to add. I'll be the first one to admit...I wondered why so many people were having a "top end rattle" issue all at the same time.
I replied to your question about a fresh set of rings as a completely different topic. I assume you're looking to do this *after* you get the rattle figured out?