FJowners.com

General Category => Maintenance => Topic started by: chiz on April 07, 2014, 06:19:19 PM

Title: zip ties and tyres
Post by: chiz on April 07, 2014, 06:19:19 PM
Hello all
Is it true that if you tighten a bunch of zip ties around a tyre you can get it onto the rim and then cut the ties and pull them out.
Thanks Chiz
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJscott on April 07, 2014, 06:53:17 PM
Quote from: chiz on April 07, 2014, 06:19:19 PM
Hello all
Is it true that if you tighten a bunch of zip ties around a tyre you can get it onto the rim and then cut the ties and pull them out.
Thanks Chiz
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/3302_11_10_13_6_11_20.jpeg)

Yep
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: movenon on April 07, 2014, 07:09:16 PM
 :good2:  A little baby shampoo also helps it has some nice slick crap in it.  Harbor Freight has the 24 inch ties for around 2.00.
George

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/1651_19_02_13_3_40_32.jpeg)
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: jscgdunn on April 07, 2014, 07:15:07 PM
My next thing to figure out to do myself;  I just spent $100 to get two tires mounted today....seems outrageous.

Jeff



Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJmonkey on April 07, 2014, 08:02:41 PM
I have done 3 sets myself and helped Mike (Skymasterers) do his last set. The $40 tire balance stand from HF works well, don't for get to pick up tire weights while you are in there.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 07, 2014, 08:09:05 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 07, 2014, 08:02:41 PM
I have done 3 sets myself and helped Mike (Skymasterers) do his last set. The $40 tire balance stand from HF works well, don't for get to pick up tire weights while you are in there.

No so fast my simian hombre, tell us what you learned about taking the old tire off?

Any tips you care to share?  :biggrin:

Seriously....I thought that a Saws-All would be a marvelous idea....?
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: yamaha fj rider on April 07, 2014, 08:30:43 PM
Most of the time I have been able to break the bead loose by putting on moto boots and steeping on the edge of the tire. If that dose not work then use a bottle jack on the tire pressing against car or truck to break the bead. With the old style bumper jack (think 70s) we have been able to break down atv tires in the field. Hope this helps.
Important tire must be deflated first.  :rofl:

Kurt
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJmonkey on April 07, 2014, 09:45:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 07, 2014, 08:09:05 PM
No so fast my simian hombre, tell us what you learned about taking the old tire off?

Any tips you care to share?  :biggrin:

Seriously....I thought that a Saws-All would be a marvelous idea....?

To break the bead I put two 2x4x20 on the ground near my trucks trailer hitch. The wheel rests on the 2x4s to keep it off the ground. Then I take another 2x4 about 5 feet long (the lever) and a shorter 2x4 about 12 to 15 inches long (The bead breaker). The short 2x4 is angle cut at about 45 degrees, this end goes at the bead. The 5 footer goes under the bottom of the hitch and over the flat end of the bead breaker. Then with downward pressure the leverage forces the bead to break loose. Work all around the tire, flip and do it again.

Now to get that pesky worn out tire off the wheel. I first used a reciprocating saw (a Saws-All like tool).  That was a pain to do solo. Then I remembered another tool I had not even opened, a high frequency multi-tool.

Like this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41kuJW--8LL._AA160_.jpg)

I used the smooth blade attachment and cut through the side wall like it was butter. Once both side walls are cut through the bulk of the carcase falls off. Then with your (gloved) hands you can pull the two bead portions off. I turn in the old tire(s) at my local household waste collection facility (about once a year).

I figure I am saving about $40 to $50 each set by doing my own mount and balance.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: fintip on April 07, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Wouldn't you not recommend doing that again? Getting the beaded remains out was a huge pain, no? Would it have been easier to cut the tire and half, giving you more to grip?
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJmonkey on April 07, 2014, 11:00:02 PM
Quote from: fintip on April 07, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Wouldn't you not recommend doing that again? Getting the beaded remains out was a huge pain, no? Would it have been easier to cut the tire and half, giving you more to grip?

Cutting with a saw blade with teeth made the job harder. With the bead off the rim the tire wants to follow the blade (up and down), no cutting. The ultra-sonic tool with a blade, was smooth and quick. Do not attempt to cut through radial tires in the tread area if you value your blade. Once the beads were just rings they came off easy.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: fintip on April 07, 2014, 11:04:31 PM
Radial tires should be easier than cross-ply, as they are intentionally thinner by design (no overlapping plys). But yeah, good point, any motorcycle tire will be very, very thick in the center... And metal? Yeah, blanked on that last post, purely theoretical thinking.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJmonkey on April 07, 2014, 11:12:05 PM
Quote from: fintip on April 07, 2014, 11:04:31 PM
Radial tires should be easier than cross-ply, as they are intentionally thinner by design (no overlapping plys). But yeah, good point, any motorcycle tire will be very, very thick in the center... And metal? Yeah, blanked on that last post, purely theoretical thinking.


For most with worn tires, the center is the thinnest.... But the side wall is fiber and cuts easy with the right tool. Maybe I will test cut the tread when I put my new rear on in the next month, over 8K and my Conti Motion is used up. Many happy miles on that tire....
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: fintip on April 07, 2014, 11:20:33 PM
I could be wrong, but I feel pretty sure that most motorcycle tires have so many layers in the middle that even when the tread is bald, it's still far thicker than the sidewall. The mechanic I worked for once mentioned something that put that idea in my head, can't remember exactly what, but something about tires being way thicker than most people realize.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: Capn Ron on April 07, 2014, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 07, 2014, 09:45:22 PM

I figure I am saving about $40 to $50 each set by doing my own mount and balance.

Although I don't use the zip tie method, I am now mounting and balancing all my own tires.  In addition to the $20-$25 per tire saved, I see many benefits:


Cap'n Ron. . .
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJmonkey on April 07, 2014, 11:42:54 PM
Quote from: fintip on April 07, 2014, 11:20:33 PM
I could be wrong, but I feel pretty sure that most motorcycle tires have so many layers in the middle that even when the tread is bald, it's still far thicker than the sidewall. The mechanic I worked for once mentioned something that put that idea in my head, can't remember exactly what, but something about tires being way thicker than most people realize.

Having a few self changed sets in my tool belt, I can say a well worn rear has the thinnest part in the middle. The side wall seems to get very little wear, the tread, a bit more... I endeavor to wear off the sides even more than I do now. I paid for the entire F$%# tire, I want to use it all up before I am done with it.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: simi_ed on April 08, 2014, 02:48:48 AM
Whether the tire is thicker or thinner @center is irrelevant when "The Man" cites you for bald tires.  "Wear bars = done" in my book.
YMMV (sorry I couldn't resist)
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: ribbert on April 08, 2014, 06:47:53 AM
Quote from: fintip on April 07, 2014, 11:20:33 PM
I could be wrong, but I feel pretty sure that most motorcycle tires have so many layers in the middle that even when the tread is bald, it's still far thicker than the sidewall. The mechanic I worked for once mentioned something that put that idea in my head, can't remember exactly what, but something about tires being way thicker than most people realize.

Kyle, whatever it was that you can't remember that the mechanic told you, is wrong.

A bald tyre is scarily thin in the centre, unless it's a tractor tyre.

Noel
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: yamaha fj rider on April 08, 2014, 09:43:49 AM
Tires wear out that is why we replace them. That is why they have tread wear indicators, so you know when it is time to replace them, if not sooner. New tires are cheaper than falling down.

Kurt

Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: fintip on April 08, 2014, 11:21:08 AM
I wasn't suggesting one keep riding them, guys. Bald = bad idea to ride. I was purely commenting on whether it would be wiser to cut it in half at the center or on the sidewall. :good:
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: simi_ed on April 08, 2014, 12:03:16 PM
Sorry, I think I mistook your intentions.  Never mind ...
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on April 08, 2014, 12:10:45 PM
You can use an 8 inch C-Clamp and a few scraps of wood (to protect the rim) to break the bead.

A simple utility knife will cut through the sidewalls.  Once you get the cut started spread the cut with your (gloved) fingers and it will slice easily.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: yamaha fj rider on April 08, 2014, 12:54:17 PM
Sorry I also misunderstood what you were saying and yes most tires are belted. So thicker in center.

Kurt
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: 1tinindian on April 08, 2014, 12:56:14 PM
Have none of you guys ever heard of tire irons?
I've changed several motorcycle tires and never had to resort to cutting them off.
I put them on the same way!

Leon
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJmonkey on April 08, 2014, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 08, 2014, 12:56:14 PM
Have none of you guys ever heard of tire irons?
I've changed several motorcycle tires and never had to resort to cutting them off.
I put them on the same way!

Leon

Thats no fun...
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: aviationfred on April 08, 2014, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 08, 2014, 12:56:14 PM
Have none of you guys ever heard of tire irons?
I've changed several motorcycle tires and never had to resort to cutting them off.
I put them on the same way!

Leon

You know how the engineer types are..... :empathy2:..... They don't get to play with power tools very often, they have to make a reason to use one.  :sarcastic: :rofl2:

Fred
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: Dads_FJ on April 08, 2014, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on April 08, 2014, 09:43:49 AM
Tires wear out that is why we replace them. That is why they have tread wear indicators, so you know when it is time to replace them, if not sooner. New tires are cheaper than falling down.

Kurt


These 'indicators' you speak of... are they the wire things sticking out on the side?

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/tyre_zpsc6e69d5c.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/campsimonette/media/tyre_zpsc6e69d5c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: yamaha fj rider on April 08, 2014, 03:06:33 PM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 08, 2014, 12:56:14 PM
Have none of you guys ever heard of tire irons?
I've changed several motorcycle tires and never had to resort to cutting them off.
I put them on the same way!

Leon
+1
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: chiz on April 08, 2014, 04:48:10 PM
Holy C
I come back a day later and there is two pages of stuff to read very interesting thanks for all the info.... Going to pick up my forks shock  calipers masters etc on Thursday and start to put the beast back on the road.
Chiz
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: FJmonkey on April 08, 2014, 05:00:04 PM
Quote from: Dads_FJ on April 08, 2014, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on April 08, 2014, 09:43:49 AM
Tires wear out that is why we replace them. That is why they have tread wear indicators, so you know when it is time to replace them, if not sooner. New tires are cheaper than falling down.

Kurt


These 'indicators' you speak of... are they the wire things sticking out on the side?

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/tyre_zpsc6e69d5c.jpg)

These things:

(http://attach.kawiforums.com/2007/07/03/20070703204135-0-6081.jpg)
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: Bones on April 09, 2014, 02:10:36 AM
Quote from: Dads_FJ on April 08, 2014, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on April 08, 2014, 09:43:49 AM
Tires wear out that is why we replace them. That is why they have tread wear indicators, so you know when it is time to replace them, if not sooner. New tires are cheaper than falling down.

Kurt


These 'indicators' you speak of... are they the wire things sticking out on the side?

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/tyre_zpsc6e69d5c.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/campsimonette/media/tyre_zpsc6e69d5c.jpg.html)


I bet the bike handled like a beauty with that tyre on it. Check the shape of it. :shok:
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: yamaha fj rider on April 09, 2014, 08:24:07 AM
When I worked at the bike shop and one of us who worked there was replacing a tire we used to burn down the old one until they blew. You half to be careful not to let it get spinning to fast or it will tear up the bike when it goes. If you do it correctly they just pop and don't come apart. This is too much fun.

Kurt 
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: Dads_FJ on April 09, 2014, 08:43:49 AM
Quote from: Bones on April 09, 2014, 02:10:36 AM
Quote from: Dads_FJ on April 08, 2014, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on April 08, 2014, 09:43:49 AM
Tires wear out that is why we replace them. That is why they have tread wear indicators, so you know when it is time to replace them, if not sooner. New tires are cheaper than falling down.

Kurt


These 'indicators' you speak of... are they the wire things sticking out on the side?

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/campsimonette/tyre_zpsc6e69d5c.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/campsimonette/media/tyre_zpsc6e69d5c.jpg.html)


I bet the bike handled like a beauty with that tyre on it. Check the shape of it. :shok:

Yea I learned a good lesson with this one... I made it home after the 1500 mile trek, but it handled like shit and I was worried it was going to blow.  The extra 'miles' I got out of it wasn't worth it.
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: Capn Ron on April 27, 2014, 06:47:07 PM
Just wanted to add a bit to this thread.

I changed a Metzeler ME880 front tire a few weeks ago with a No-Mar Classic tire changer.  Pulled the old one off and mounted and balanced a fresh one.  That tire is a brute...I used all the suggested tricks for touring tires from the No-Mar videos and it went pretty well.  I imagined a person would struggle quite a bit using the zip-tie method with this stiff of a tire.

On the other end of the spectrum, I removed and re-mounted a rear Avon Roadrider today with the same No-Mar changer...to find the heavy spot and give it a proper balance.  That Avon has such a light carcass compared to the Metzeler that I nearly could have mounted it by hand!  Popped the first side on and nearly all of the second side without any tools at all.  :yes: A quick roll with a mount bar and it was on.  I couldn't believe the difference!

Somewhere closer in stiffness to the Metzelers, are a fresh set of Pirelli Sport Demons I have here in the garage.

Cap'n Ron. . .
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: wyraider on April 29, 2014, 02:35:43 AM
Quote from: jscgdunn on April 07, 2014, 07:15:07 PM
My next thing to figure out to do myself;  I just spent $100 to get two tires mounted today....seems outrageous.

Jeff

$100!!! Holy crap, that's crazy, I just got mine mounted AND balanced for $20.


Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: wyraider on April 29, 2014, 02:48:05 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 08, 2014, 12:56:14 PM
Have none of you guys ever heard of tire irons?
I've changed several motorcycle tires and never had to resort to cutting them off.
I put them on the same way!

Leon
^^^^^^WHAT HE SAID^^^^^^ :dash2: You're killing me smalls :dash2: haha. It's SUPER easy and cheap to use tire irons, I'm just lucky enough to know a super cool dude that does mine for $20. Bust the bead with a plastic wedge and a hammer if you HAVE to...(we call an 8lb hammer just a hammer in the oil field)
Title: Re: zip ties and tyres
Post by: fintip on April 29, 2014, 11:44:33 AM
I just go to the shop I used to work at and use the proper machine, hand the owner a tip as thanks.