Electrical... Oddity?

[fintip]

I'm sure someone will understand this right away. I just don't have an in-depth enough understanding of electronics.

Working with a volunteer mechanic, it was determined that I must have a short in the blue/white wire in between the solenoid pigtail and the hand switch; grounding out the pigtail worked, but grounding the handswitch side did not.

Sounded reasonable enough.

So, pulled the plug under the fairing, tried grounding that side while plugged in; still no start. Interpretation was that there must be a short in the harness between that plug and the solenoid pigtail. Solution: Just run a new wire.

Realized while doing this, however, that just replacing the harness plug wire with a new wire, and taking it out of the equation, meant it didn't work.

So, the wire must be stopping somewhere else along the way. I checked the wire harness and realized it goes to that master safety switch relay unit that I told the guy I suspected was the problem from before, but couldn't quite figure out what that should mean. Instead, I just spliced my wire in, making the plug and the pigtail a three-way junction each.

Now, bike always starts when I hit the starter button! I finally don't have to push-start my bike 60-90% of the time (depending on the bike's mood). Side effect: starter motor will turn over when I hit the start button, even if there's no key.... But no spark, it seems.

Acceptable. Already, I feel like I'm living a miracle. I have been push starting the bike almost every time I rode it since I got it--which is now about 8 months. And this is my daily driver, commuter, and I have put over 15k on it already. You can't imagine what it's like to all of a sudden have push-button starting after all that! haha.

Anyways, after chewing on it a day, I feel like this probably just confirms my original suspicion about that relay box (that I do not understand, physically, how it functions) being the original source of the problem. Does that sound right?

What can I replace it with?

Other notes:

-Soldering is kind of fun. This was my first go at doing it myself.

-Riding around with the bike naked for now, kind of nice to not have rattling plastics, 'feels' like a very different bike. I want to do some work on the gauges before I put it all back together.

-How in the world does it possible come off with just the scoops plus 4 bolts? What am I missing? I ended up taking it all apart in pieces, could not figure out the clever way some on here seem to have.

-Anyone have a quick tip about fixing a non-responsive tach? I know at least one person reported adding an extra ground for it. What's the best way to do that, and are there other options for tach repair? Mine just stopped registering a few weeks ago.

-Replaced my speedo cable (which came undone and fell out...), and rebuilt my clutch slave. Kookaloo!

[fj11.5]

  hate to say it kyle, but I told you so,,,, read through your posts from the big ride home , and you will find where I said that relay behind the fairing is part of the non start issue, and that mine has done the same thing since I've owned it, I just ran a swith to the blue /white solenoid wire and earthed the other side,,for the non start days

[fintip]

I know, I never forgot! It was my mechanic friend that insisted on this route, I was telling him from the beginning that I believed it was the relay. 

I want to actually have it work though, I am not fond of your particular fix. I just wanted my start button to always work, the way it should. Pretty happy with it the way it is, honestly; leaving it like this wouldn't bother me at all.

[fj11.5]

I've found that usually ,once she's started with the added switch, she starts off the start button with no worries , , just don't  leave yours in gear on the side stand, , bump the button and she will fall over, , as my original 1100 had been wired like your fix , found out the hard way after letting someone else ride her , they parked up in gear , , I never do , so when I went to start her in the drive to check something she took off , and layed down with a crunch , tried catching her , no chance , just pushed me backwards, I was more worried about banging my head ,, post tumor op a month previous

[Derek Young]

-How in the world does it possible come off with just the scoops plus 4 bolts? What am I missing? I ended up taking it all apart in pieces, could not figure out the clever way some on here seem to have.

Hey Kyle. 
Remove the scoops, then remove the four bolts that fasten the headlight frame (or fairing stay), undo the two electrical plugs and the speedo cable. This removes the fairing, the instrument cluster and headlight. I use a 3/8" drive ratchet, long extension, a universal joint and a 12mm socket for these bolts. If you add any extra wiring to your headlight or any extra gauges, make sure you allow for them to unplug or this method won't work.

Derek

[fintip]

So it removes the entire 'subframe' that the headlight/gauges are mounted on?

[ribbert]

So it removes the entire 'subframe' that the headlight/gauges are mounted on?

10 minute job

Noel

[fj11.5]

The joy of having an original fairing , and not a moulded fiberglass  one 

[JPaganel]

Well, now I know...

My fairing is pretty busted up and the two tabs for bolts attaching it to the frame in the front are broken, so I've been just pulling the windshield and getting the fairing off that way.

[squidley63]

Starter relay that you need can be crossed over to an xv250 starter relay which are readily available from eBay also used on tdm850 and others. Manufacturer part number 2uj-81950. Happy hunting.

Forgot to mention check your side stand and clutch switch for continuity before assuming this relay is bad. You can make up a quick jumper to put on the connectors to bypass for a quick check.

[fintip]

Right, checked the safety switches for continuity when I first got the bike and was dealing with the issue, and they have proven functional since (can't push start the bike with the kick stand down, can hit the starter button on rare occassion that it does work in gear but with clutch pulled, and not otherwise).

That's not the starter solenoid you're referring to, but the safety switch control relay, right?

That fairing mount solution is brilliant. So much better than what I went through. Now I know.

Rod, I did EXACTLY that when I first got the bike. Used to always park the bike in gear, but when I first got it I was crossing the terminals on the starter solenoid to start the bike... Once I did it and quickly learned that the side scoop pucks  are there for a reason... No damage. Couldn't have been more pissed. Same thing, tried to catch, no chance.

Hadn't realized that was a possibility with it wired as is, but you're completely right. The safety circuit normally prevents spark AND doesn't allow starter motor to spin, either clutch or kickstand. Now I have no spark, but always get the starter motor. (Or does the safety circuit ONLY prevent the starter motor from spinning? Actually, now that I think about it, I think that's how it works, right?)

I have to say, I had a ton of question at the beginning, but the main question I was pondering was: why is my electrical system behaving as it is?

Now I may have just understood a part of it: I passed the safety switch relay path to the starter (motor) solenoid, but the pathway to spark is still isolated and requires the path through the key switch? Is that right?

[squidley63]

I am referring to the control box for the safety switches that keeps the starter button from grounding the solenoid that powers the starter. The box is located on the left side of the bike off of the fairing mount. I had mine go bad earliest this year due to a water leak that shorted the circuit board.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=200850682957

An example of what to look for

[fintip]

Well that's good to know. Did you have the same symptoms that I did?

[squidley63]

Mine would start erratically. Then only in neutral then only when jumping the starter solenoid to ground. I checked continuity of all the safety switches(side stand, neutral, and clutch). Then double checked the wires were good to the relay box. Once changed I've had no issues at all.