header stud broke off.. x2

[Goetz]

 
So. Trying to extract broken header bolt, extractor snaps off. Torquing on header, its mate snaps off as well. 4 hours and one helicoil kit later I have one functioning stud and a question. How do I get the remains of the extractor out?

[X-Ray]

Not sure how to tackle this, but I was thinking the exact thing yesterday when I was putting the pipes back on. Its almost as if you can feel the studs stretching as you torque up the nuts 

Is there such a thing as an "extractor extractor"??

[aviationfred]

I would shoot Randy at RPM or FJmonkey an email for personal advice.

My 2 cents...... If the stud is sticking out past the head, I would try and use a Dremel with a cutting wheel to cut a slot on the bolt and try a flat blade screw driver and plenty of WD-40 or equivalent.

I am extremely terrified of your situation.

I know this is after the fact. I for go EZ-out's and use the high dollar removers. They are less likely to break.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Irwin-53228-15pc-Multi-Spline-Screw-Extractor-Set-/150884257117?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2321670d5d#ht_1732wt_1161

Fred

[ribbert]

Not sure how to tackle this, but I was thinking the exact thing yesterday when I was putting the pipes back on. Its almost as if you can feel the studs stretching as you torque up the nuts 

Is there such a thing as an "extractor extractor"??

Many people here have strong views on this operation and will no doubt offer help so I won't even venture an opinion but for future reference I have found the following:

Broken off extractors and drill bits are one of the worst jobs to fix.

The most common extractors are those spiral fluted, tapered ones and I have broken dozens of them over the years, I hate them.
You are putting a tapered tool into a uniform hole so the area of contact is very small and the load great and that is where they always break.

There is also a common tendency to use one that is too small making the risk of breakage even higher.

I have moved on to other less common types with much greater success.

Square, star shaped or multi spline ones that are more uniform in diameter and the load is spread over a greater area.
Another reason I like these is, once started you really belt them with a hammer which drives them in much further and is very effective for loosening the bolt.
I have twisted a number of these but never had one break or lose its purchase on the bolt.

I expect a number of people will disagree with this but I have had good success with them.

Once you have fixed this problem you will approach your next broken bolt with a whole different attitude.

Noel

[fj11.5]

I'm with ribbert, spiral extractors suck, pay the price and buy decent ones made of steel and not cast cheese

[andyb]

Decent extractors suck too.  They're a little like vise grips... likely to cause a boatload of work, every time you get them out!!

Unfortunately, the right way to do it is to pull the piece that you're trying to fix (the head in this case, it's easier than it looks honest!), and get it properly jigged up so that it can be put on a drill press and held dead square.  Then things are remarkably easier.

But no, we all think we'll get lucky just this once with the screw extractor and leave things together...

[fj11.5]

Well andy b, that sure kicks the extractor idea off site ,sure would save messing up the head more

[ribbert]

Decent extractors suck too.  They're a little like vise grips... likely to cause a boatload of work, every time you get them out!!

Unfortunately, the right way to do it is to pull the piece that you're trying to fix (the head in this case, it's easier than it looks honest!), and get it properly jigged up so that it can be put on a drill press and held dead square.  Then things are remarkably easier.

But no, we all think we'll get lucky just this once with the screw extractor and leave things together...

Everybody knows the primary function of vise grips is to mangle but they pale compared to the grief ezy outs cause.

Your comment isn't clear. I assume while you KNOW the best way to do it you still try your luck?

I still do it and I'm much better at it these days but I still get people bringing me things with snapped off extractors and drill bits. It is really shitty work!

Noel

[movenon]

So. Trying to extract broken header bolt, extractor snaps off. Torquing on header, its mate snaps off as well. 4 hours and one helicoil kit later I have one functioning stud and a question. How do I get the remains of the extractor out?

What type of extractor did you use ? Where did it break ( is there any of it above the head , flush with the head, deep inside ?) ?

Over the years I have used about every common extractor out there and I have the worst time with small bolt /stud's. Invariably I end up HeiCoiling them it seems. I now take every precaution I can by using PB Blaster or some equivalent (acetone and ATF fluid mix) and apply heat before even trying.

As mentioned above, I would give Randy or fjmonkey a call or PM before going forward at this point.

If you can't get the extractor and stud out and you do not want to replace the head. As a stop gap fix to get it rideable I would think about making a plate going across all the exhaust studs on either the top or bottom and nutting that down with the 7 good exhaust studs. This will or should put a light clamping action on the header collar. It is just something to think about....

I do not believe it takes much pressure to stop it from leaking. I say that because I pulled my pipes off this winter and the first thing I noticed was all the retaining allen nuts (1990 FJ) were all finger loose.... I was actually glad of that as I was afraid of the potential broken stud problem. At any rate it wasn't making any header noise/exhaust leak that I could tell.

When I reassembled with new gaskets I elected not to TQ the nuts back on. Instead I just put them back on finger tight and then with an allen key just "snugged" them up very lightly.
I figure if they fall off then its easy to put a new one on... I also know that next winter I will be back to pull the head off for valve stem seals plus.. Again I don't need a broken stud. I started the bike yesterday for the first time since then and no leaks, no noise from the headers.

Please post what you find out and how you approached the fix you will not be the last with a broken exhaust stud / bolt unfortunately. Wish there was an easy answer to your problem. I don't know if any of this will help but it all I have. 
George

[ELIMINATOR]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

When I had to remove the nuts from another Yamaha of mine. A few came off easy, others didn't want t move. I  wound paper tissue around the nuts, soaked them in Plus gas, kept going back each morning before work and at night, soaking them more. I was left with one that still wouldn't budge. So I used the tiny blow torch from the kitchen, heated it up and the nut came off.

Patience is the best thing in these cases.  Nuts were copper greased before reassembling. 

[movenon]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

When I had to remove the nuts from another Yamaha of mine. A few came off easy, others didn't want t move. I  wound paper tissue around the nuts, soaked them in Plus gas, kept going back each morning before work and at night, soaking them more. I was left with one that still wouldn't budge. So I used the tiny blow torch from the kitchen, heated it up and the nut came off.

Patience is the best thing in these cases.  Nuts were copper greased before reassembling. 

+1 Patience is the word.....
George

[twostroketerrorist]

in short..... if you broke an extractor off, you're pretty much f*cked unfortunately

[Goetz]

Extractor r still stuck.  Bike runs fine, im slowly getting the hang of maintaining it.

[FJmonkey]

Out of our price range but the perfect solution would be one of these. Perfect Point EDM E-Drill Aircraft Fastener Removal

[Goetz]

that makes me want a brushed aluminum fairing. weight be damned it would look badass