A sea of gas from ??? Please help

[Smoothops]

I just picked up an 87 FJ1200, then joined this community.  The seller said it had a fuel leak.  It would not start and taking the plugs out showed them dry, but black, apparently  from running rich.  I took the carbs out, but other than some dirt (not gum) at the bottom of the bowls, it all looked fine.  The needle valves closed (I was unable to blow air through the main intake hose with the carb set upside down, as to raise the floats).  I put it back together and tried to start it.  After setting the main screws to 1.5 turns, it started and ran, sounded good actually.  A few minutes later I noticed a LOT of fuel coming out from underneath the bike, I looked closer and it looked like coming out of the air box???.  Also, it was black, as if mixed with oil???.  I'm scratching my bald head here and could use a little help, so I'm all ears

[FJmonkey]

Sounds like you have gas in your oil. Verify before running the engine again. If so, you will need to drain out the oil and put in some new stuff. Then you need to sort out which carb or carbs is leaking. Considering the story I would rebuild them and avoid the trouble of chasing the problem. Randy at www.Rpmracingca.com can rebuild them if you don't want to do the work.

[Pat Conlon]

Did you read the carb cleaning procedure in the Files?
You have a 'gusher' as described.
You have a stuck float or debris in the float needle seat that is keeping the gas flowing. You might think you cleaned the carbs but unless you took them apart, you haven't .
You also may have crap in your fuel tank and fuel lines that's causing the grief. So start there. Carb cleaning won't help if you just fill them up with crap again.
Gas flowing out the air box should be black. The crankcase vent is connected to the bottom of the air box and there is oil in the vent mist (blowby) This oil pools in the air box and is drained by a small hose.
Gas flowing out the carbs and thru the air box picks up this oil, that's why it's black.

The good news is, at least your air box is now clean.

Finally, don't forget to change your oil and filter. The gusher of gas flows both ways, out the air box onto the floor and into the engine, past the rings into the crankcase oil.
Do not try and start your bike with this gusher or you will experience the wonderfully expensive event called hydro locking. If you think you have troubles now.......

Clean out the tank...then the fuel lines...then the carbs. Take those floats, float needles and needle seats out.
Might as well call Randy @RPM and get some float needle seat o rings. Heck, go ahead and get the full kit and be done with it.

Cleaning Carburetors, a rite of passage for FJ owners. That's why we put the info. In the Files.  Cheers.

[Dan Filetti]

If there is fuel in your oil, it got there by draining through the carbs into the cylinders and by the rings into the oil.  (I'll bet you that your oil is over the top of the window in the site glass.)   This therefore mean gas was flowing when it should not be, which in turn indicates the petcock is not holding. I would replace or rebuild your petcock no mater what.

Further, the needle seat O-ring(s) -the second line of defense, may need to be replaced if they are more than a few years old.  The other possibility is that there is crap in your tank, which is passing through your faulty petcock, and an amazingly small little piece has wedged itself between the needle and the needle seat o-ring allowing fuel to flow through.  This is what Pat was referencing, but again it would not be all that much of an issue if the petcock had held. 

I would ensure the tank is clean, if not, get it clean -search for the procedures, it's been done and talked about at some length before.  Then clean the carbs, while you're there, I'd replace the needle seat o-rings and possibly the float needles if they need it. As was indicated by Mark, if as we suspect you have do indeed fuel in your oil, you need to change your oil before you run the bike again.   

Let us know how it goes.

Dan 

[Smoothops]

Yes there is gas in the oil, the window shows no air bubble, even when the bike is tilting on the side stand.  I took the carbs out and tried to take the seats out.....bad idea, I ruined two of them, trying to pull them out, the other two I did not touch after the disaster I made with the first two.  Only after the seats were ruined, I looked at the floats and two the tabs on them were flat, which may have been the cause of the flooding in the first place.  The tank is clean inside and so are the hoses.   I now need to get the bad seats out and replace them, but have no idea of how to get them out.  It was a bad afternoon at the garage. 

[Smoothops]

Did you read the carb cleaning procedure in the Files?
You have a 'gusher' as described.
You have a stuck float or debris in the float needle seat that is keeping the gas flowing. You might think you cleaned the carbs but unless you took them apart, you haven't .
You also may have crap in your fuel tank and fuel lines that's causing the grief. So start there. Carb cleaning won't help if you just fill them up with crap again.
Gas flowing out the air box should be black. The crankcase vent is connected to the bottom of the air box and there is oil in the vent mist (blowby) This oil pools in the air box and is drained by a small hose.
Gas flowing out the carbs and thru the air box picks up this oil, that's why it's black.

The good news is, at least your air box is now clean.

Finally, don't forget to change your oil and filter. The gusher of gas flows both ways, out the air box onto the floor and into the engine, past the rings into the crankcase oil.
Do not try and start your bike with this gusher or you will experience the wonderfully expensive event called hydro locking. If you think you have troubles now.......

Clean out the tank...then the fuel lines...then the carbs. Take those floats, float needles and needle seats out.
Might as well call Randy @RPM and get some float needle seat o rings. Heck, go ahead and get the full kit and be done with it.

Cleaning Carburetors, a rite of passage for FJ owners. That's why we put the info. In the Files.  Cheers.

I looked for info on cleaning the carbs for the last couple days, but found nothing, where are "the files".  Hope I had known that the info was already posted.  I'm new to the FJowners.com community and don't really know my way around the website.  I was lucky to find 3 seats on Ebay, but they will take a while to get here, so I'm out of luck.  I found a list of bikes with the same needle/seat, if anyone is interested, here it goes:

    » Yamaha Big Wheel (FJ1200S) 1986
    » Yamaha FJ1100L 1984
    » Yamaha FJ1100LC 1984
    » Yamaha FJ1100N 1985
    » Yamaha FJ1100NC 1985
    » Yamaha FJ1200SC 1986
    » Yamaha FJ1200T 1987
    » Yamaha FJ1200TC 1987
    » Yamaha FZ600S 1986
    » Yamaha FZ600SC 1986
    » Yamaha FZ600T 1987
    » Yamaha FZ600TC 1987
    » Yamaha FZ600U 1988
    » Yamaha FZ600UC 1988

    » Yamaha MAXIM X (XJ700XN) 1985
    » Yamaha MAXIM X (XJ700XNC) 1985
    » Yamaha MAXIM X (XJ700XS) 1986
    » Yamaha MAXIM X (XJ700XSC) 1986
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600A) 1990
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600AC) 1990
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600S) 1986
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600SC) 1986
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600T) 1987
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600TC) 1987
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600U) 1988
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600UC) 1988
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600W) 1989
    » Yamaha RADIAN (YX600WC) 1989

[movenon]

Sounds like you are on the correct track. If it passed the blow test then it had to be the float binding, a leaky float or really bad float height adj.. It is important to use the proper screwdriver blade when removing the seats (and jets). I would at a MIN order 4 new needle and seats and take a very close look at those floats and pins.

Ideally totally rebuild all the carbs. If you don't feel comfortable rebuilding the carbs then my advise along with others is to contact Randy at RPM. The carbs are the heart of your FJ.

Also go here and open the PDF file. This is for a Suzuki but same type carb and a good review of the process. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7730.0

George

[RichBaker]

Randy (RPM) posted a trick he uses.... Find a rod the same OD as the ID of the needle seats, use that to support the seat while gripping the seat with pliers so you can pull them out without crushing them. This assumes you HAVE removed the small screw securing the seats....

[racerrad8]

I was lucky to find 3 seats on Ebay, but they will take a while to get here, so I'm out of luck. 

Are you sure you got the correct one from eBay, there are two different needle seats for the FJ. I am not sure where you are located, but if you live in the US, you can have new ones in your hands in 3 days or less.

4 of 5 responses to your request for assistance tell you where to go to get parts and possibly service if you needed things for the carbs.

Randy at www.Rpmracingca.com can rebuild them if you don't want to do the work.

Might as well call Randy @RPM and get some float needle seat o rings. Heck, go ahead and get the full kit and be done with it.

Ideally totally rebuild all the carbs. If you don't feel comfortable rebuilding the carbs then my advise along with others is to contact Randy at RPM.
George

Randy (RPM) posted a trick he uses....

So, you might take a minute and check out my website. I have every part you need for your carburetors including a new set if you want. Not only do I have all of the parts you need, I also build upwards of 100 sets of carbs a year.

In fact Randy T is going to be using my services for this mess;

It's fresh in my mind because I just dealt with it last weekend... can't imagine why it didn't want to open.   

And Pat just got his back...

UPS just dropped off my carbs. Wow...that bubble bath you gave them sure makes them look like new...

Thanks Randy well done!

So, now 5 out of 6 people who have responded to your post requesting "help" all recommend my parts & services. Take a few minutes and check out my website, www.RPMracingCa.com. You can search carb and see everything you need including the correct needles & seats

Randy - RPM

[Smoothops]

Found a set of needles/seats ay the local shop, slapped them in, all floats were at 19 mm or less, all assembled now, but having a little trouble finding the oil drain, I must drain all of the gas laden oil.  Will keep you guys posted.  Did I say thanks to all of you? Maybe I was too upset to think of that, but hey your input is highly appreciated.   

[Smoothops]

Done with the carb work, installed new seats calibrated the floats and did the vent hole mod on my carbs.  Drained the oil and about 5 quarts of fuel/oil mixture came out, my engine must be spotless inside.  Put new oil and fired her up.  Had it running for about 30 minutes and sounded fine, with no leak whatsoever, the vent hole idea works!.  Randy I have some experience working with bikes but I needed HELP from other FJ owners that have already done what I was doing.  I needed the parts today and could not wait the 10 plus days it takes for parts coming from California to Canada.  The other FJ owners comments led me in the right direction and I thank them all.  In another wavelenght, the list I posted for the needle/seat sets was confirmed at the local dealer today, they cross referenced the part number of the sets I bought and they do fit all of the bikes on the list I posted, plus the Yamaha XS650 and the XS1100, they all use the same needle/seat.  The sets were 9 dollars each.  Now it is time to sync the carbs and I'll be reading from the section that shows the tricks for this bike.   Au revoir

[big r]

Randy is real quick with parts delivery. Only took 5 days for my parts to get here from the time I ordered them to the day I picked them at the post office. Shipping is real good as well. BigR

[movenon]

Done with the carb work, installed new seats calibrated the floats and did the vent hole mod on my carbs.  Drained the oil and about 5 quarts of fuel/oil mixture came out, my engine must be spotless inside.  Put new oil and fired her up.  Had it running for about 30 minutes and sounded fine, with no leak whatsoever, the vent hole idea works!.  Randy I have some experience working with bikes but I needed HELP from other FJ owners that have already done what I was doing.  I needed the parts today and could not wait the 10 plus days it takes for parts coming from California to Canada.  The other FJ owners comments led me in the right direction and I thank them all.  In another wavelenght, the list I posted for the needle/seat sets was confirmed at the local dealer today, they cross referenced the part number of the sets I bought and they do fit all of the bikes on the list I posted, plus the Yamaha XS650 and the XS1100, they all use the same needle/seat.  The sets were 9 dollars each.  Now it is time to sync the carbs and I'll be reading from the section that shows the tricks for this bike.   Au revoir

'

Home made carb balancer... The little restrictors in the line were from Harbor Freight, they are in there cheap brake bleed kit. Just remember to shut your engine off when you unhook the vacuum lead...



George

[racerrad8]

Randy I have some experience working with bikes but I needed HELP from other FJ owners that have already done what I was doing.

Well, I understand you needed help from other FJ owners. While I might be a vendor and supplier of parts for your FJ, I also own and ride FJ's. My wife rides an 86 FJ1200 and I own a total of 5 FJ's.

On top of all of my FJ bikes experience I race cars that use the FJ engine & carbs as their power plant. I have been racing, build and tuning the FJ engines for almost 20 years.

To date I have build close to 300 FJ engines and if I really had to count carbs, I have build well over 1000 of them.

I can almost guarantee you that you will not find another owner on any forum that has as much FJ engine and carb experience than I do.

I was lucky to find 3 seats on Ebay, but they will take a while to get here, so I'm out of luck.

The reason I posted, as well as everyone else, you said you were down for a while waiting for parts. I am glad you were able to get what you needed and complete the job.

If there is anything I can do for you, please let me know.

Randy - RPM

[Arnie]

Smoothops,

You said, "Done with the carb work, installed new seats calibrated the floats and did the vent hole mod on my carbs.  Drained the oil and about 5 quarts of fuel/oil mixture came out, my engine must be spotless inside.  Put new oil and fired her up.  Had it running for about 30 minutes and sounded fine, with no leak whatsoever, the vent hole idea works!. "

What is this "vent hole mod" you have mentioned?

Arnie