Clutch rebuild. Help! What did I do wrong?

[MACHV]

Hey Gurus...
So this was my first clutch rebuild. Consulted the slipping clutch file. Read it carefully. Replaced the back thin plate with a thick one per Randy's instructions. All fiber plates and diaphragm spring replaced. Everything back together exactly as it came apart. All bolts torqued to spec. I must have bumped the lever during the process so had to push that piston back in that is inside the clutch basket. Had a buddy push it in while I bled the slave. Bled the hell out of the actuator line. Ran bike. Shifted fine for a bit. After several good shifts, the lever now is very stiff, can only pull it about half way, and the clutch will not engage in any gear. Second time through this all too. WTH did I do wrong?

Thank You

[flips]

Hi Machv.

Disclaimer-I wouldn't call myself a "GURU",but I'll give it my best shot!
What happens if you bleed the slave? does the m/c push the fluid through as per normal?,if so I would take a guess that you might have a stuck slave piston.It might have picked up some crud or not gone back in properly.You might need a rebuild kit or new slave from rpm.
Hope this helps.



Jeff P

[andyb]

Pop the clutch slave off (other side of the bike, three screws) and see if it moves freely.  You should be able to squeeze the lever (ONCE!) and have it extend, then push it back in by hand (it'll be quite stiff).

Sounds like you have the piston stuck cockeyed a bit, and isn't it about time you rebuilt that slave anyhow?    They're notorious for leaking and such, but quite easy to rebuild.  The other possible culprits include something shifting within the clutch basket area or getting locked up (if the basket wasn't heavily grooved, I'd expect this to be unlikely, honestly), or a bit of crap blocking the return hole in the master cylinder (at the lever).

If you pull the clutch plates back out, double check that the hub and basket aren't grooved where they contact the fibers and steels, and throw it back together (sharp side of the steels goes to the outside, rounded towards the motor).  More likely there's a problem in the slave assembly somewhere.  It's cheap to get the parts to rebuild it and quite easily done, so don't be too concerned.

[MACHV]

Thanks guys. However clutch was working fine prior to disassembly. Just starting to slip under power in all gears. Not sure why the slave would all of a sudden be a problem but will have a look. Wasted a perfectly good gasket in all this too. Andy, not sure what grooves u r talking about but I see no real "wear" perpendicular to the basket splines, if that's what you're getting at. Sigh. It will be Sunday soon enough and I can beat my head against the wall doing what I love.

[MACHV]

Really Frustrated Now.
The problem seems to only occur when the bike is running.

Disassembled, inspected and reassembled clutch plates and spring. Pulled off slave. Dirty but seems to work fine. Checked push rod operation from both ends. Moves fine. Reattach slave and check operation. Can see the clutch working perfectly before putting cover back on. Lever feels like it should. Put cover back on. Lever feel like it should. Start Bike. Lever quickly gets too firm to pull more than half way and gears will not engage. 

What am I missing?

Thank You

[FJmonkey]

With the bike running you have oil pressure, hummmm.... Something pushing the ball and rod back into the salve? Heat expanding the pack till the play is gone? I have not had the clutch open on mine yet so I am just thinking along the lines of engine on/warm vs. off/cold.

[Flying Scotsman]

Really Frustrated Now.
The problem seems to only occur when the bike is running.

Disassembled, inspected and reassembled clutch plates and spring. Pulled off slave. Dirty but seems to work fine. Checked push rod operation from both ends. Moves fine. Reattach slave and check operation. Can see the clutch working perfectly before putting cover back on. Lever feels like it should. Put cover back on. Lever feel like it should. Start Bike. Lever quickly gets too firm to pull more than half way and gears will not engage. 

What am I missing?

Thank You

Could you be hiting the clutch cover when you pull the clutch.If so clutch might be put together wrong.

[MACHV]

Yer Gonna Laugh.

When something is amiss in, my father always taught me to first ask, "What did I do wrong?", which is why I put it in the title, cuz I knew it was me.

Ya know in the clutch slippage writeup where it tells you how to replace that back, thin fiber plate? While I don't recall it specifically saying to toss the dampening spring and spring seat ring (part 4&5 in the exploded clutch view), it also did not specifically say to put them back in.  

Therefor, this whole problem was due to there being extra matter inside the clutch pack that did not belong, resulting in the push rod extending too far and the diaphragm spring being unable to push the slave back in far enough. This is why I was getting a hard lever half way through the throw and not at the top of the throw. Finally took the pack apart once again and this time put the old thin fiber plate back in and the two rings and... AH HAH!!! Dumbass!  

Tossed those babies in the scrap, put it all back together with the new thick fiber plate in place. Bled the clutch. Took it for a short ride and quoted Emperor Palpatine at the results: "POWER!!! UNLIMITED POWER!"

Thank you for the advice. Sorry to have wasted anyone's time. Live and learn.

Going to bed.

[Flying Scotsman]

Not going to laugh just happy you fixed her. 

[FJmonkey]

Thank you for the advice. Sorry to have wasted anyone's time. Live and learn.

I do not think that any time I have spent here would be considered a waste of my time. Any FJowner that gets his FJ back in the Kookaloo zone is worth my time... How we get there can be discussed later at the next rally.... 

[racerrad8]

Glad you got it all worked out. I am going to post the specific section regarding the required removal of the two items mentioned.

Also, I really hope you discarded the wire retaining ring...

Use a magnet to remove both the dampening spring and spring seat ring:


Both parts removed, now ready to install a wide full sized fiber clutch plate:


Randy - RPM

[MACHV]

I can feel a noticeable difference in pull. I work at a small airport and keep the bike here for winter. The ramp is rough concrete so there's plenty of traction since no snow yet. For the first time since I bought the bike in June, I felt concerned she might bring the nose up. Didn't know what I was missing, I guess.

Gnite, and thanks again.

John.

[MACHV]

Glad you got it all worked out. I am going to post the specific section regarding the required removal of the two items mentioned.

Also, I really hope you discarded the wire retaining ring...

Use a magnet to remove both the dampening spring and spring seat ring:


Both parts removed, now ready to install a wide full sized fiber clutch plate:


Randy - RPM

Yep. Tossed that ring out. I was so focused on the instructions to toss that in the garbage that I did not assume to do the same with the other two parts. Thanks for the write up.

[I make oil]

I changed my clutch and added the extra spring myself a few months ago.  I took it apart no less than 8 times and called Randy before I finally got it right.  Next time I'll know what I'm doing.  Every first time is a learning experience.  Just glad Randy is so generous with his time.  His customer service has made me a customer as long as I own a FJ.