'92 140,000Km rebuild.

[tmkaos]

  , looks great, is it still original coated or cleaned bare alloy,, I've had good luck using cleaners with a cloth wound around my dremel saves a lot of work

nah the original coat was knackered, I used an orbital sander to get it off.

[Pat Conlon]

I recall Randy mentioning that the plastic sleeves on the barrel studs was for cosmetics. No need to replace them if the plastic comes off...just sand 'em and paint 'em.
I don't know about the numbers on the head....

[tmkaos]

Ok, pop quiz, hotshots..

I'm sitting here staring at my block trying to work out how the studs come out of the block. I've put 2 nuts onto 1 stud and locked them up together and  I'm trying to wind out the studs in the usual direction (anti-clockwise) (lefty-loosey righty-tighty) but it doesn't want a bar of it. Are they LH threaded into the block or are mine like everything else on this motor, seized?

Cheers,

James

[ribbert]

Ok, pop quiz, hotshots..

I'm sitting here staring at my block trying to work out how the studs come out of the block. I've put 2 nuts onto 1 stud and locked them up together and  I'm trying to wind out the studs in the usual direction (anti-clockwise) (lefty-loosey righty-tighty) but it doesn't want a bar of it. Are they LH threaded into the block or are mine like everything else on this motor, seized?

Cheers,

James

James, are you sure the studs need replacing?  My crystal ball tells me this may turn into a bigger job than you expect. Unless the rust has significantly eaten into the stud I'd be cleaning them up and painting them with a neutraliser and leave it at that.

It's easy to let the enthusiasm of a freshly cracked motor take over.  I'm a mechanic ( enthusiasm dulled decades ago ) and my experience suggests at some point it is a job you may regret starting, unless of course there is no choice.

Noel

[tmkaos]

I wanted to get them out to make it easier to A: clean them up and paint them; B: make it easier to turn the motor over without risk of damaging them. I think you have a good point Noel, I don't need to get carried away but at the same time, if it needs doing I'd be stupid not to do it while the motor is apart.  

Ran the front engine mounts through the ultrasonic today - no good for ali it's got a corrosive mix in there but it's awesome on  steel


Gotta get the sump off and work out exactly how I'm going to clean everything back up after all the crap fell in there from pulling the head and barrels off. Think I'll have to take it into work. My boss isn't too happy, there's more motorbike parts laying around my bench than there is real jobs.. 

James

[ribbert]

I wanted to get them out to make it easier to A: clean them up and paint them; B: make it easier to turn the motor over without risk of damaging them. I think you have a good point Noel, I don't need to get carried away but at the same time, if it needs doing I'd be stupid not to do it while the motor is apart.  

Gotta get the sump off and work out exactly how I'm going to clean everything back up after all the crap fell in there from pulling the head and barrels off. Think I'll have to take it into work. My boss isn't too happy, there's more motorbike parts laying around my bench than there is real jobs.. 

James

I agree, if they need replacing it's silly not to do it, but if it's just for ease of cleaning and turning the motor over, I'd work around it.

When I pulled mine apart I had a huge amount of rust, dirt, gravel and what was left of the plastic fall into the cases.
I tipped the motor forward so all the rubbish rolled to the front, not back towards the gearbox, removed the sump, put a piece of plastic hose on the end of the parts wash nozzle and flushed 100's of litres of kero through it.



Noel

[tmkaos]

I agree, if they need replacing it's silly not to do it, but if it's just for ease of cleaning and turning the motor over, I'd work around it.

When I pulled mine apart I had a huge amount of rust, dirt, gravel and what was left of the plastic fall into the cases.
I tipped the motor forward so all the rubbish rolled to the front, not back towards the gearbox, removed the sump, put a piece of plastic hose on the end of the parts wash nozzle and flushed 100's of litres of kero through it.

Noel

Noel, great minds think alike.  After my little girl's 3am feed I had trouble drifting back off to sleep, I was chewing it over in my head, and I was wondering if I could do this exact scheme in the parts washer at work. I was a little concerned with the effects of possibly flushing out all the bearing surfaces with the kero, but I was thinking that before start up I would be spinning the motor over sans sparkplugs to create some oil pressure, this would replace what oil was lost before the motor fires in earnest.

What did you paint your studs with, Noel (and others)? I have priced some POR 15 products to paint the motor but they worked out too expensive -it was proper professional stuff, but I see that they do a cheapy spray-can version of the same stuff, saw it when I was at the Mitre 10 (local hardware chain) looking for VHT spraypaint. They didn't have it but they had several other heat resistant paints in spray cans. There was CRC, Dulux and another brand I didn't recognise, so I've got some Dulux Hi-Temp black spray paint that's for the exhaust, I could use that, it's supposed to have rust preventers in it. I just don't want whatever I use to flake off as soon as the motor gets up to temp the first time.

[FJSpringy]

Last time I had mine apart I cleaned all the paint off the barrels and did not re-paint them, some days when I look at it I love the look other days I hate it

[tmkaos]

The no-paint look is pretty much what I have now, all the paint has flaked off and left me with heavily oxidised aluminium, I don't like it much.

Meanwhile, checking continues..  Checked cam shaft run-out today, exhaust was less than .01mm, intake was .02mm which is just under the .03mm my Clymer manual states for the limit.


Today I should be able to continue removing the caked on head gasket from the head and also de-carboning the combustion chambers before I remove the valves and check the guides.

I'll have to work out a spring compressor. I have one for my V8 but it's the type that actually grabs the spring itself, okay in a big V8 head where you see the springs but no good on the FJ where the spring is in a pocket.

We have a little paint booth at work for spray painting the industrial gearboxes we refurbish, might take the headers in there and give them a go with the paint I bought today too.

So much to do so little time... 

Thank you all for your continued input and advise it is much appreciated. 

James

[ribbert]

Noel, great minds think alike.   After my little girl's 3am feed I had trouble drifting back off to sleep, I was chewing it over in my head, and I was wondering if I could do this exact scheme in the parts washer at work. I was a little concerned with the effects of possibly flushing out all the bearing surfaces with the kero, but I was thinking that before start up I would be spinning the motor over sans sparkplugs to create some oil pressure, this would replace what oil was lost before the motor fires in earnest.

What did you paint your studs with, Noel (and others)? I have priced some POR 15 products to paint the motor but they worked out too expensive -it was proper professional stuff, but I see that they do a cheapy spray-can version of the same stuff, saw it when I was at the Mitre 10 (local hardware chain) looking for VHT spraypaint. They didn't have it but they had several other heat resistant paints in spray cans. There was CRC, Dulux and another brand I didn't recognise, so I've got some Dulux Hi-Temp black spray paint that's for the exhaust, I could use that, it's supposed to have rust preventers in it. I just don't want whatever I use to flake off as soon as the motor gets up to temp the first time.

Yes it will wash off the oil film on the big ends and mains, you can rock the rods from side to side a little when they are dry, but as you say, it doesn't take much to get oil pressure back in there and it's better than having any of that crud still floating around. From memory there is a bleed screw for the oil on the RHS of the head that I opened while starting for the first time. After filling with oil I spun it over on the starter with the plugs out for maybe 20 secs then just fired it up.

The product I was referring to for the studs was just a common rust converter, available at M10. Take off what rust you can and this stuff will soak into whats left and chemically neutralise it and leave an impervious surface. I actually didn't worry about treating mine. I figured with the plastic sleeves no longer on there to hold water and the engine heat to keep it dry it would no longer be a problem.

Good luck with the exhaust paint. I spent a small fortune on this.  The highest temp paints I could buy and they all eventually failed at the top bend after the header leaves the head, I have given up until the budget can fund black chrome or something similar.

This my engine at about 20,000k's using anybrand engine enamel.



The headers on the left are paint job no, 3 or 4 ( to be fair they do look a lot better than this clean but are still crappy on that bend)



Noel

[tmkaos]

Got the exhaust with the first coat.. We'll see how this holds up under some heat.   Does look a damn site better than before..


After..


Got a quick coat on the engine mounts too..


Been reading up in the Mods FAQ about slotting cam sprockets and I think I won't bother but doing the ignition pickup advance mod looks like easypeasy power so that's a go..

Still been cleaning up the combustion chambers.. reckon I'll pickup some extra cc's from all the crap that's coming out of them!


James

[ribbert]

Got a quick coat on the engine mounts too..

Been reading up in the Mods FAQ about slotting cam sprockets and I think I won't bother but doing the ignition pickup advance mod looks like easypeasy power so that's a go..

James

If the reading you have been doing is about changing the cam timing I wouldn't bother either but if you find at assembly time that the marks in the caps don't line up, it's worth slotting them to get it back to standard and you appear to have access to equipment to do this yourself.

Exhaust paint is no where near as hardy as engine enamel and I would recommend using it on the exhausts only.

Engine enamel is brilliant stuff, paint the whole engine in 5 mins and it looks like it just rolled out of the factory.  No sanding, etching, priming, multiple coats or long drying times. It's impervious to fuel and oil and it can be touched up and reponds to well to polish.

The only issue is it remains a little tacky until cured with heat and the only practical way to do that is ride it for a couple of hours.  The sort of manhandling required to refit the motor can end up with matt fingerprints all over your lovely new paint job. I let one of my motors sit on the bench for a couple of months after painting it and all the dust and crap that settled on it became part of the paintwork.

I think next time I would clean it and then paint it in the frame as soon as I had the rear bolt through and before fitting the front down tubes. Very little additional masking required to do it this way. Once you've got that bolt through you are done with wrestling with the motor.

Noel

[tmkaos]

Noel that's awesome mate, you're a fountain of useful knowledge. 

I checked the all the marks lined up before I removed the cams, both the dot-punch in the hole on #3 cap and the mark with the valve cover, and I know things might change as I put it back together but hopefully they won't be too far out. I do have the equipment and skills to do the sprocket mods but it's the time I need to set it up and measure it all to get it right. Work is great with me doing homers but I know I've never done that particular job before and other's have said it took them a day - and I think they knew what they were doing.  Anyway that's a bridge to be crossed later.. 

I'll look at getting some enamel, your motor look fantastic after 20k!

Slightly annoying that it needs heat to cure - adds another level of fucking-aroundness to the whole job. Oh well, I'm already clocking up cam shafts to make sure they aren't bent, can't get too much more fucking-aroundness than that... 

[andyb]

Been reading up in the Mods FAQ about slotting cam sprockets and I think I won't bother but doing the ignition pickup advance mod looks like easypeasy power so that's a go..

Still been cleaning up the combustion chambers.. reckon I'll pickup some extra cc's from all the crap that's coming out of them!

Judging by the level of mechanical skill you're demonstrating, I think you'd be a bit foolish not to consider it.  Rather than breaking out the degree wheel and measuring so on, when you reassemble the top end, look at how the stock timing marks align.  I'm assuming that you're replacing the camchain, but because of wear and/or manufacturing tolerances, the marks might not align perfectly.  I'd suggest slotting the sprockets out enough that you can line things up precisely to the stock spec.  Isn't a huge amount of effort and getting the valve timing dead on will give you a better running motor.

Are you tweaking the piston/head (squish) clearance?  If you measure carefully, you should be able to set it at 1mm fairly accurately, and that'll give you a bit more guts as well, despite cleaning the carbon out of the chamber.  Stock headgaskets spec to 0.030" compressed, stock paper basegaskets were 0.020".  The rubberized base gasket that Randy sells is 0.012" if memory serves.  You may need to deck the cylinders slightly and/or deck the head (not a bad idea in any case to ensure those surfaces are dead flat, the headgasket will thank you), so the usual routine of measure twice, cut once, swear, cut again, and start over may be applicable.

[JMR]

Slightly annoying that it needs heat to cure - adds another level of fucking-aroundness to the whole job.

Use a real heat gun for 4 or 5 cycles. It gets the paint hard enough to resist finger print marks etc when installing the engine.