Chain lube/maintenance

[Dan Filetti]

Folks-

Back to the 'what to clean your chain with' discussion...  I have used WD-40 to clean motorcylce chains all my life.  My chains last for 20-25k miles.  Actually, it's usually the sprokets that need changing before my chain, but I do them as a set.  I've read the stuff that it may degrade the o-rings, but I just don't see evidence of it.  I'd love to see someone cut the o-ring out of an old chain and soak one in WD and another in kerosene for a month.  See what the two of them look like in the end.

Anyone game?

Please advise,

Thanks,

Dan

[TRoy]

  I'd love to see someone cut the o-ring out of an old chain and soak one in WD and another in kerosene for a month.  See what the two of them look like in the end.

Anyone game?

Dan, I'm on it!

[rktmanfj]

  I'd love to see someone cut the o-ring out of an old chain and soak one in WD and another in kerosene for a month.  See what the two of them look like in the end.

Anyone game?

Dan, I'm on it!

Seems like Mazz, or someone on the micapeak list did that a couple of years ago...

Randy T
Indy

[Ratchet_72]

I wouldn't use WD-40 on a chain.

If the chain is really dirty I use either kerosene or ATF and a soft toothbrush, then I spray down with a chain cleaner.  For light cleanings I just use the chain cleaner.  After everything is dry, I lube the chain with Honda chain lube.

Be sure to remove the front sprocket cover.  You'll be amazed at how much crap builds up in there.

So you wouldn't use WD-40.  WD-40 contains Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates as its main ingredient.
You would however use kerosene which IS an Aliphatic Petroleum Distillate?
Please elaborate.

[pdxfj]

While you're at it put one in some ATF and see how it compares.   

  I'd love to see someone cut the o-ring out of an old chain and soak one in WD and another in kerosene for a month.  See what the two of them look like in the end.

Anyone game?

Dan, I'm on it!

[rktmanfj]

  I'd love to see someone cut the o-ring out of an old chain and soak one in WD and another in kerosene for a month.  See what the two of them look like in the end.

Anyone game?

Dan, I'm on it!

Seems like Mazz, or someone on the micapeak list did that a couple of years ago...

Randy T
Indy

I looked back in the archives over at www.fj1200archives.com, and found the test that was done over there...

<<Kurt, others;

FWIW, I'd advise against diesel fuel as a chain cleaner for O-ring
chains. A couble of years ago, prompted by a chain-cleaning and lubing
thread, I tested some O-rings by soaking then in KMART's clone of WD 40,
90-WT gear oil, and home-heating (fuel) oil, which is diesel fuel with
some dye in it. After several weeks, the O-rings in the clone WD 40 and
the 90-WT gear oil were fine, but the ring in the home-heating (aka diesel)
fuel oil had begun to swell. A couple of years later (like this a.m.), the
O-rings in the gear oil and clone WD 40 are still in good shape. The O-
ring in the fuel oil got brittle, broke into four pieces (with a little
help), and now sits in it's little plastic test container, fused to the
bottom.......I'd strongly suggest steering clear of both heating oil, and
diesel fuel when it comes to O-ring chain maintenence.



---MAZZ>>

I know that some time after this was posted, someone else did it, with similar results.

YMMV,

Randy T
Indy

[Marsh White]

I wouldn't use WD-40 on a chain.

FWIW: I have been using WD-40 to clean my O-Ring chains for 6+ years now.  I still always get about 20K of pretty hard riding out of them before they are too stretched out.  They have always been the top of the line DID gold chain.  I clean them by hand with WD-40 and a rag.  Then re-lube them with Honda (red can) chain lube.  I have never seen a damaged o-ring.  It's my understanding that the grease in the X-Ring O-ring chains (and ALL O-Ring chains) seeps/wears out in a few thousand miles anyway.  There is an AWESOME EVERYTHING you could want to know about motorcycle chains link around somewhere...It has been tossed around MANY times over the last several years.  I know lots of you know what link I'm talking about - let's see who can find it first!   

[ozzstar]

I have read the articles online that were posted in this thread regarding the WD-40-Kerosene debate.  Thanks for posting those links guys.  Seems to me that there is no proof that WD-40 causes any adverse effects to the o-rings.  The nice thing is with WD-40 it is readily available, low fumes, seems to work well as a chain cleaner.  A gear head like me also enjoys the smell 

My bike has a chain with 12K miles, has been sitting unused in a garage for 16 years.  I would imagine it would be happy being cleaned with anything.  I think I will try the WD-40 as a cleaner, used compressed air to dry the chain and THEN apply a good dose of Bel-Ray lube afterwards.  I really don't think there will be any longterm issues. 

Owning my other 2 bikes (both Hondas) with shaft drive has definetly kept me out of the chain cleaner/lube drama.  Its nice to be a part of it now.   

"Time to go clean, go for a ride, and fling some lube"........thats my new quote.

Ozz
(Glen)

[SlowOldGuy]

I would avoid the compressed air drying routine.  You could blow crap past the o-rings.  That would be a bad thing.

DavidR.

[cadmanmadman]

As a plastics engineer, I will hopefully be able to clear this up. The material used for o-rings on a chain is made from Buna-N rubber. It is only marginally resistant to natural oils (not synthetic) and fuel. Over time, it will degrade the polymer breaking up those long molecule chains, and swell the polymer in question. In the most extreme case the polymer no longer softens and swells, paradoxically it starts to develop a hard brittle shell with a soft inside (like one of those cream filled cardies) and that brittle shell starts to crack and break and everything pretty much goes to $hit.

On the other hand, Materials like WD40 I'm 98% sure include a microfluidized (pulverized into nano size molecules) silicone which repels water very well. Silicon on the other hand, acts as a real plasticizer and gets in between the polymer chains and prevents 'cahin scission' and the breaking of these polymer chains. I would guess that the plasticizing effect of the silicone overrides any delitirous effect that any natural oils in the product would have. Same for any other suitable chain oil.

I was trying to remember specifically WHAT it was that I used many years ago that completely wrecked a chain so quickly. Your conversation reminded me of the fact that it was an old jug of kerosene (which is nothing more than refined Diesel or home heating oil or for that matter, really close to jet fuel, aka JP3).

I was kerosene that killed my chain in no time flat.

[Ratchet_72]

A safe assumption to make would be the frequency of chain lubing more than 'what' specific chemical you use.

[threejagsteve]

Well, according to the several polymer properties websites I consulted when researching which type of o-rings to get for my recent carb rebuild, Buna-N had "good" resistance to oils and fuels. It is weather and sunlight (and, I suspect, ozone) that kills it!

That's why when I did the fuel rails on my carbs, the o-rings on the inside (fuel contacting) were nearly pristine, while those on the outside (air contacting) were, as cadmanmadman descibes, "a hard brittle shell with a soft inside (like one of those cream filled cardies) and that brittle shell (was) start(ing) to crack and break..."

[TRoy]

Old chain: DID 530 VM, Approx 35,000 miles."x-rings".  Cleaned w/Kerosene and lubed with some sort of spray can chain lube no more than every 700 miles.

Soaked for 2 weeks, then set out in the atmosphere for a couple days, then soaked again for 2 weeks .  Only thing that seemed to have ANY effect on the x-rings was PB Blaster. I used some DOT3 brake fluid just for the hell of it , since it seems to fuck up everything ~ seemed to have no effect.

The x-ring that was in PB Blaster was slightly enlarged/impregnated. The main thing I noticed was that, after a week or so, it was soaking in a cloud of blackness, and when removed , some of the blackness would rub off on my fingers (presumably deteriorating rubber)




The x-ring on the bottom was not soaked in anything.. for comparison

[mst3kguy]

[FJ Flyer]