Crash avoidance - How would you?

[Arnie]

   http://www.kladblog.com/embed_flv.asp?id=media.kladblog.com/media/201206/motorcrash1.flv




As I see this, the car (people mover) in the center lane, moves to the left at the same time as putting on their signal.
The motorcyclist is just on the left rear quarter, and is trying to avoid the car, and goes down.
Was the biker passing/overtaking the car? Hard to tell.
Was the biker OK?  Seems to show the white helmet up and walking.
Whose fault is the accident?  How do you avoid being this biker?

Arnie

[The General]

1. Yes. (about to pass as lane speed much higher). 2.No.(That`s not a white helmet). 3.Car.(though rider contributed)  4. Ride near the Rail or centre & practice panic braking (so you don`t lock up). Can`t confirm from video how long indicator was on prior to camera view - but irrelevant in this case.

[Marsh White]

The way I see it is the motorcyclist was an idiot.  There was no reason for him to panic and lock up the brakes.  He had tons of room.  My personal reaction would have been to hit the throttle.  That alone would have solved it.  Let's say he was on a small bike like a 250cc or something and couldn't easily pin the throttle and get in front of the car - then he still had plenty of room to move to the left side of the lane and avoid the car.  He didn't even try.  Hitting the brakes would have been the last thing I would have done.

[andyb]

Why wasn't he in the left side of the lane in the first place? 

I'd just have leaned left a little.  That SUV isn't gonna change lanes all that hard without flipping over.

[craigo]

I feel it was the motorcyclist's fault on this one. There were other options open to him other than grabbing a bunch of brake. He panicked and crashed. I did not see him get up and it looks like the white car didn't hit him, but his bike slid further up the road. Rider was wearing a black helmet, not a white one.

Hope he came out OK and learned a lesson on accident avoidance.

CraigO

[moparman70]

Man its really hard to tell as the bike is already in at least the rear lock-up as evidence by the skid mark and then to  me seems like he is flying and then looses control and wipes out as the car is coming across.

Only thing I think I do differently and I can't even tell what has happen in this one is just reading the traffic ahead - side - and behind you.  If the bike got hit or was cut-off for me its the biker's fault ( not really legally ) but it is reality.  He should not be in that position - in any blind spot etc etc.  When I am not where I need to be to be safe ... I make it so... mostly its means blasting out of the space in a safe quick manner.

but I would need to see more of the clip to make any real judgements.

stevecc

[ApriliaBill]

I'm with you guys, I would have just moved left and on by him. Grabbing a ton of back break is very seldom the answer. He might just have sight fixated on thier brake lights and followed it in. I think a lot of people don't realize how narrow bikes are, and the little room needed to escape. In all the close calls I've had over the years, brakes were very seldom used to get out of the situation, I look for an open spot and move, this has gotten me out of several pile ups clean. From the shortness of this clip, it seems speed, gap, and attention were all lacking in this situation. Hope that guy is O.K.

[yamaha fj rider]

His reaction of locking up the rear brake makes me think inexperienced rider. Most of the time it is not one mistake but several that put you in a bad place. This might be that situation. 

Kurt 

[rexsk8er]

I've been riding for many years. I've laid over my bikes during the years many times.  3/4s of the time it was my fault. And the only time it wasn't I could of avoided if I had paid a little closer attention to the other people on the road. Once I Got clipped by some a guy following to close while making a turn, I could of sped up but I didnt check my mirror as I hit the breaks to turn even after signaling ahead of time, and I got ran off the road because I was in a guys blind spot and didnt realize it. No major damage to me or my bike on that 2nd one as I was run into a soft ditch and laid down easy.

I checked out the video and that guys an idiot.

How you avoid that type accident is obey they speed limit and use common sense. Oh and keep in the further part of the lane from vehicles.

In my opinion a motorcycle have some benefits and drawbacks


A couple benefits are 1 unlimited range and field of view, only obstructed by a helmet or goggles. Little in comparison to a car. 2 is total lack of distraction. When your on a motorcycle, you aren't typically yippin it up on the celly or dickin around with the cd player and eatin a burger or doin some makup ECT.

The drawbacks are if your wreck your going to hit the pavement. at any speed your in for hurting. and second because a motorcycle is much less visible to other vehicles.


So to sup it up IMO the way you prevent getting smashed is to use common sense and the advantages of being on a bike to outweigh the dangerous points. The idiot that doesnt see you cant run you over you if you see them being stupid before they have a chance to do it. Oh and loud ass pipes get you noticed too.

For example, yesterday I was on my Royal Enfield and I'm taking a left turn to go back to work and this dumbass comes hauling ass up the road im turning onto to the stop sign is apparently going to turn left and almost doesnt stop, clearly looking to the left the whole time he was coming up to the intersection. So I saw this happening looking in the mirror had no traffic behind me and made a quick slow down. So sure enough the guy doesn't finish stopping and rolls half way through the road I'm on into the two on coming lanes and just as hes in the middle of the road than looks right. Well he sees me slowly rolling waiting for this stupidity to cease and than he proceeds to embarrassingly reverse all the way to the stop sign. Pretty funny, I never actually came to a stop just clipped down to about 5 mph so I could watch what was happening. So after he gives me back my right of way I proceed to take turn turn shaking my head the whole way. I guess the guy decided no to be in so much of a hurry because he sat at the stop sign until I made the next turn, a block down the road.


Be safe guys! Oh and I'm not saying I condone spirited riding or driving nor do I allays obey the speed limit, But you wont catch me doing over the speed limit in traffic. And you'll only see me speed in the middle of the night going down the causeway (about 5 miles of bridge with very little traffic in the middle of the night and very straight line of sight) In fact I've pushed my little civic to 160 mph down the middle lane. Speed calculated by rpms/tiresize/gearratio not a speedometer. Never saw another car other than the Nissan I left in my dust HAHA. And if I were to crash and burn there's no way I'd leave a big pileup in my wake. EVER. My stupidity will only harm me. I have enough common sense to be reckless with discretion.

[The General]

+1 (But a "Royal Enfield" & "common sense" in the same statement! is that an oxymoron?) 

[rexsk8er]

 

[andyb]

How you avoid that type accident is obey they speed limit and use common sense.

There's sections of road, mostly multilane interstate that I've ridden on where obeying the speed limit is going to make your life much, much worse.  Stay with the flow of traffic, not being the fastest nor the slowest thing on the road.  Overall speed is not the problem, speed differential between people is.

I was solidly 12 years old when I learned that normal cars can actually go faster than 65.  My parents obeyed the speed limits with absolute dedication.  As such, any time the traffic flow was going faster than they were, they were constantly surrounded by a wall of traffic trying to get around, riding their bumpers, and otherwise being aggressive.  No wonder they were such nervious wrecks in those situations!

If you consider the speed limit as defined by what the social interaction of cars around you is instead of some ridiculous blanket law, then yes, staying roughly within the normal speeds will be much safer than otherwise.  As far as that goes, there's also sections where people seem to drive comfortably under the limit as well, as a population.  I went through South Dakota some years ago with the cruise set at 75 (the limit at the time there), and was passed by absolutely no one.  It was really eerie honestly.  294 near Chicago has a 65mph limit, and going under 75 is inviting trouble.

[axiom-r]

How you avoid that type accident is obey they speed limit and use common sense.

There's sections of road, mostly multilane interstate that I've ridden on where obeying the speed limit is going to make your life much, much worse.  Stay with the flow of traffic, not being the fastest nor the slowest thing on the road.  Overall speed is not the problem, speed differential between people is.

I was solidly 12 years old when I learned that normal cars can actually go faster than 65.  My parents obeyed the speed limits with absolute dedication.  As such, any time the traffic flow was going faster than they were, they were constantly surrounded by a wall of traffic trying to get around, riding their bumpers, and otherwise being aggressive.  No wonder they were such nervious wrecks in those situations!

If you consider the speed limit as defined by what the social interaction of cars around you is instead of some ridiculous blanket law, then yes, staying roughly within the normal speeds will be much safer than otherwise.  As far as that goes, there's also sections where people seem to drive comfortably under the limit as well, as a population.  I went through South Dakota some years ago with the cruise set at 75 (the limit at the time there), and was passed by absolutely no one.  It was really eerie honestly.  294 near Chicago has a 65mph limit, and going under 75 is inviting trouble.

+1

I never go the speed limit - ever.  I am always moving past the traffic around me and not staying in position.  I learned this technique years ago from a MSF Instructor.  He wasn't teaching speeding but explained that moving past traffic is safer than holding position or letting the cars pass you....  I've done it this way ever since.

tim

[nurse]

Given that we in the UK and those in OZ, NZ and japan drive on the correct side of the road, im guessing this is europe as they are driving on the wrong side of the road and one of the vans going in the opposite direction was a Ford transit, v popualr in the UK and a fair few in Europe.

The rider was far too 'off centre' in his lane judging from the position he was in.  Also he should have seen the vehicles intention to move much earlier, sometimes its intuition, pattern recognition built up from years of watching other drivers behaviours both in cars and bikes. the car he was avoiding was an mpv.  MPV = school run mum with several whining, arguing fighting and moaning kids (i know thats what you find in mine) therefore the driver will be totally distracted most of the time at best.

The rider totally over reacted.  Too much attempt to swerve plus too much front brake, its a combination of all these factors.  Accident investigators will always tell you its a combination of several factors/errors. 

What is far more concerning than this is that not a single one of the passers by (incuding 2 other bikes) stopped to help, they either sat and looked on ( in shock i guess)  or carried on trying to get through the gap!!

I tell you what though that white car was on the ball and did bloody well to avoid hitting the biker in the first part of the crash.  That numty in the red car was obviously not paying any attention as his brake lights come on far too late and was traveliung far too close to the vehicle in front.

[Threkin]

 I have commuted for 15+ years in some pretty unpleasant traffic, so I'd like to give my .02.

I always ride in the third of the lane closest to the other cars, because most of the time the dummies don't have their mirrors adjusted to see the lane to the far left and behind. If you can't see their face they can't see you. If you can see their face they can't see you. People in cars are blind and stupid.
Besides the mirror thing, I can get a better look at their steering wheel and turn signal lever. If the wheel turns, guess what? So does the car, and I have two thirds of a lane left to accelerate and swerve around the drone in a cage. There is no need for drama if someone comes in your lane, you should see it coming a mile away.
All of the above is a moot point anyway, and is what I used to do. Now I never ride beside a car. Easy as that. Either enough room to pass, or stay behind until there is room to spend about .01 seconds beside it. Truckers will thank you for this. I have never been thanked by a trucker, but I feel my day is coming.
I don't know what anyone else is doing when they are combat commuting, but I am paying 100% attention to not dying. Whiskey is killing me at just the right pace, thank you!