Flip Front Helmets

[rktmanfj]

I've been considering a modular (aka flip front) helmet - and am glad to see the opinions and data being discussed here - especially since I live in Pennsylvania where wearing a helmet is OPTIONAL - so many don the serious protection of a crew cut or doo-rag before they hit the pavement (odd, the number of MC related deaths has gone through the roof since they let people ride lid-less - anyone who doubts Darwin need only check the stats in PA).
Having walked away from a few nasty crashes (car makes left in front of rider .... rider on 750 2 stroke kawasaki goes off pavement ... rider on Seca 550 drops it at Pocono at 130MPH ... plus a couple "watch this" moments) wearing a full face (non articulated) I believe I'll stick with the inconvenience and relative discomfort and replace the old Bell with another substantial lump - thanks for the conversation!

Cheers

Steve

Snell, or DOT?     

[StatDoc]

Hi Dan -

Abbottstown PA (half way between York and Gettysburg) - grew up in DelCo (Wallingford) - arrived here via Valley Center Kansas and numerous black hole postings -

cheers

Steve

[StatDoc]

Would appear I replied and it landed in the wrong thread - anyhow - prefer both Snell and DOT although Snell seems more meaningful - when it comes to crew cuts and ball caps I don't believe there's much difference!

Cheers

Steve

[mst3kguy]

well i hope not because you think i saved it, because i didn't.  the 0.5 seconds after that photo became "interesting".

Still blows me away every time I see it.....

[Arnie]

Thanks Dean,

Now IF I'm understanding this correctly, you were riding with the chinbar UP when you crashed, and still the helmet protected you.  HJC specifically tell you that the helmet is NOT to be used with the chinbar UP, yet the helmet still kept your brain from splattering all over the pavement when your head hit. 
Thus the helmet performed correctly even though you had reduced its strength by not having the helmet chinbar in the closed and locked position.

Yes, you were lucky you didn't hit face first, as you'd be (even) less pretty now :-)

Snell ratings do not require a chinbar.  I've had several open-face helmets with Snell ratings.  Snell was always intended to be a rating of how well a helmet could protect your brain not your face.

I don't believe I've ever seen a crew cut or a ball cap that had either a Snell or DOT/ECE/AS1698 sticker.

Arnie

[axiom-r]

well i hope not because you think i saved it, because i didn't.  the 0.5 seconds after that photo became "interesting".

Still blows me away every time I see it.....

I know.....  you straightened me out on that aspect.  The fall doesn't matter- only that you are here and talking about it and hopefully not still sore!

[ddlewis]

I tried on a couple flip-ups recently.  An HJC and a Nolan.  In both helmets with the chin bar down my chin/lips/nose are practicallly touching the chinbar, especially on the Nolan it literally touches.  A few mm's of clearance w/ HJC. 

They otherwise fit my head ok, but the chin part is right up in my face.  Probably impossible to take a drink from my camelback with the chinbar down.  In a face first crash most of the impact would transfer right to my jaw.  Even if the helmet didn't break it would be a likely injury. 

Anybody else notice that about the closeness of the chin bar with these modular helmets?  Maybe another brand would work better, but off the shelf selection is not good in these parts.

[rktmanfj]

<snip> In a face first crash most of the impact would transfer right to my jaw.  Even if the helmet didn't break it would be a likely injury. <snip>

That's what happened to Rick with the Fulmer lid in the original post.  His jaw was broken, and he was knocked out cold upon impact.

But, he suffered no lasting injury (to his head, anyway), according to the doctors, from what was, by all accounts, a very hard hit.  He t-boned a car that pulled out directly in front of him, and apparently the a-pillar launched him several feet into the air, according to eyewitnesses.

The car driver's insurance company has fought him tooth-and-nail, denying liability.    

[ddlewis]

That's what happened to Rick with the Fulmer lid in the original post.  His jaw was broken, and he was knocked out cold upon impact.

But, he suffered no lasting injury (to his head, anyway), according to the doctors, from what was, by all accounts, a very hard hit.  He t-boned a car that pulled out directly in front of him, and apparently the a-pillar launched him several feet into the air, according to eyewitnesses.

The car driver's insurance company has fought him tooth-and-nail, denying liability.    

ok, I had to re-read.  thought his injuries all came about because the bar broke off, but you say face-trauma happened on impact with car.  That's exactly what I was afraid of when I tried them on.  Smacking your face against the inside of the helmet is better than against pavement..  I'd just as soon pass on the face-smacking part altogether.

Also over on advrider just came across a several hundred post long thread on flip up failures with pictures of broken helmets and messed up faces.  This adds up to enough anecdotal evidence to scare me away.  I see a new RF1100 in my future.

how can they deny liability if everyone is agreeing their insured is at fault?  Probably dragging their feet to delay payment as long as possible.

[rktmanfj]

That's what happened to Rick with the Fulmer lid in the original post.  His jaw was broken, and he was knocked out cold upon impact.

But, he suffered no lasting injury (to his head, anyway), according to the doctors, from what was, by all accounts, a very hard hit.  He t-boned a car that pulled out directly in front of him, and apparently the a-pillar launched him several feet into the air, according to eyewitnesses.

The car driver's insurance company has fought him tooth-and-nail, denying liability.    

ok, I had to re-read.  thought his injuries all came about because the bar broke off, but you say face-trauma happened on impact with car.  That's exactly what I was afraid of when I tried them on.  Smacking your face against the inside of the helmet is better than against pavement..  I'd just as soon pass on the face-smacking part altogether.

Nope... the way I get it, he t-boned the car right behind the front wheel, and the a-pillar acted as a ramp, launching him several feet into the air.  The resulting Superman imitation had him landing hard, face down on the pavement, several feet on the other side of the car.

The chinbar pivots and latch remain intact, in fact, after recovering somewhat, Rick later tried to pull it open, and could not get them to fail.

He had the light concussion from being knocked out, and broken jaw (which had to be wired for several weeks) from impacting the chinbar (not sure if it is the recommended EPS or not), and a badly fractured tib/fib.  Lots of bruises and scuffs.  I know the jacket was a Teknic textile, not sure about the pants or boots.

Considering all, I'd say his gear did pretty well.

[mst3kguy]

i really have no recollection of how i landed and rolled other than from the scrapes to my gear, and from all indications, the only impact to the helmet was the lower back section.  i guess i had my chin tucked in against my chest, thus exposing that portion of the back of my helmet to the impact.  man i'm one smart crasher...  ( :

[StatDoc]

Would appear I replied and it landed in the wrong thread - anyhow - prefer both Snell and DOT although Snell seems more meaningful - when it comes to crew cuts and ball caps I don't believe there's much difference!

Cheers

Steve

Tried on a couple flip fronts (fulmer, HKC and some other off-brand) - found none satisfying - ended up with a Nolan with a fixed chin bar - somehow felt "better" (as in "130 MPH on route 81 better") - at those velocities it may not matter - but somehow a hinged lower section just makes me feel ill at ease -cheers to those who don't get that feeling though - but for dogs sake - at least wear a helmet!

Cheers again

Steve

[Dan Filetti]

I don't believe I've ever seen a crew cut or a ball cap that had either a Snell or DOT/ECE/AS1698 sticker.

For that matter, I don't think SNELL offers it's stamp of approval for any of the flip front helmets.  Corrections to this assertion welcome.

Dan

[spsmith_fj1200]

http://www.zeus-helmets.co.uk/zeus-3000.html