bought a 1991 FJ1200 today and figured I'd be here a lot so... first question

[micah360]

Hey guys... my name is Micah and I live in Colorado... FIRST POST HERE    I just bought a 91 1200 today.  When I test drove the bike, I guess I didn't notice the squishy foot shifter until about 1/4 of the way home, so I pulled over and noticed that the whole shifter and foot peg were not solid... so I knew something was wrong here.

I got home and pulled the foot peg and shifter off and noticed that one of the nuts (the one that holds the shifter bolt) that is supposed to be welded inside the frame had broke.  So, I searched on this site real quick for this, and it looks like the threaded rivet thing would work.  Are there any other fixes for this???

AND... when I pulled off the stuff and revealed the frame... I noticed something else worse!  The bottom bolt (that I'm holding in the photo), had been sheared off inside the frame!  So this put me in an even worse mood... first day with a new/old bike... you know how it goes.  Then I pulled the foot brake side off too and that same bottom bolt is freaking broke on that side too!!!!

Are these bolts, primary bolts in holding the frame together.  Is it a big deal that I rode it 30 miles with it like this??  What is the best route to tackle fixing this?  Just try to extract the old threaded portion out of the frame and buy new bolts.

I'm kinda stressing that the seller didn't tell me this stuff, and I even asked him (after I paid him for the bike), if there was anything that would need my attention when I got the bike home.

It's a BEAUTIFUL MACHINE though and I love the way it drove home today, it felt great (except the peg thing).  I tested rear brake pretty good and it didn't feel like there were any weird frame issues going on there.

Anyways... thanks for listening... I'm sure I will be at this forum for a long time to come.

[RichBaker]

Welcome aboard, Micah..... 

I doubt they caused any other issues, as you found it's an occasional problem, but fairly easily fixed. Get an extracter kit from Sears, I've had very good results with these . You need a reversible drill, because you use them in reverse, and they usually unscrew under drill power...

[ribbert]

Welcome Micah,
You just described an FJ I bought recently, exactly!  The guy had been riding it with 3 of the 4 bolts that hold the subframes together missing/sheared/stripped.  Surprisingly, when I put it back together, nothing had "spread"

The gear lever shaft has a hole in the frame behind where the nut is (should be). I put a flat washer and nylock nut in there and used a large flat screw driver wedged against one of the flats (you can't get a spanner on it) to hold it while I tightened it from the front.

The sheared off one I drilled and removed with an extracting tool and replaced with a standard bolt.

The missing one had been moving around in the hole before falling out and had elongated and stripped the thread, I drilled and tapped it to 8mm (orig. 6mm) and fitted a new high tensile bolt.

I imagine this is the result of the bolts coming loose, or not being sufficiently tightened. I check these bolts regularly ( in fact they're the only bolts I check) on my other bike and 80k later have not had a problem. They are however, high tensile bolts.

It's a shame this took the gloss of the thrill of bringing the FJ home, but don't be alarmed, a sorted FJ is a terrific bike and they have very few vices and no place on the planet will give you more help than here.  AND, you got the sorted one, the one with all the good stuff already on it.  It's about time we had a new member with something other than another one of those bloody red and white things.
Noel

[baldy3853]

Welcome Mitch Im also in the process of buying a 91 model for the 2 rallies I will be attending this Yr as your in Colarado, hopefully we will see you @ the rally, would be good to have to candy striped there rather then all those red & white go slow bikes  .
Lots of really good guys here who are only to interested in helping out and supplying info on how to sort out the best bike other then their big brothers (FJR) 
Baldy

[simi_ed]

It's about time we had a new member with something other than another one of those bloody red and white things.
Noel

Amen!  Damn fast ambulances. 

[Arnie]

Micah,

I'll join in with a welcome.

When I found a broken lower frame rail bolt on my '91, I was able to just remove the threaded part with a sharp pick.  Since there is no tension on that part (once broken) it should come out easily.

When I went to replace the bolt I found that it was an 8mm bolt that went through a 10mm hole. I couldn't figure out why Yamaha had done this, and no one else had a good explaination either, so I re-tapped the receiver holes and used 10mm bolts in all 4 locations.  I've not had any problems with these bolts since.  That was 9years and 70,000 kms ago.

Arnie

[Pat Conlon]

Welcome Micah, don't stress too much about the broken bolts. It happens sometimes, not often.

I do commend your thoroughness and diligence on your careful inspection. It is prudent.
You have received great advice and I hope you become a contributing member of our forum. A small donation is helpful.

Also FYI, we have a FJ Rally coming up in Colorado,  so will be in Gunnison the 2nd weekend in June and we would enjoy your company.

Cheers!  Pat

[racerman_27410]

Micah,

I'll join in with a welcome.

When I found a broken lower frame rail bolt on my '91, I was able to just remove the threaded part with a sharp pick.  Since there is no tension on that part (once broken) it should come out easily.

When I went to replace the bolt I found that it was an 8mm bolt that went through a 10mm hole. I couldn't figure out why Yamaha had done this, and no one else had a good explaination either, so I re-tapped the receiver holes and used 10mm bolts in all 4 locations.  I've not had any problems with these bolts since.  That was 9years and 70,000 kms ago.

Arnie

+1   i also did this to my lower frame rails..... just didnt make sense to have an 8mm bolt in a 10mm hole.


welcome to the group brother!


KOokaloo! 

Frank

[micah360]

thanks for the help everyone... I really appreciate it.  I will for sure be throwing a contribution to this site as soon as I get a few bucks into my paypal account.

I went to Sears and bought the extractor set that was linked above and I broke off one of the extractor bits.  Oh well, I guess I will just re-thread it to 10mm as suggested and use new bolts.

After looking this over again and again... I believe these lower bolts are failing because the 8mm bolt is going through a 10mm hole (as stated above) and when you rock it on and off the center stand the torque on them is what is breaking them.  That's just my hypothesis.

By the way... is the tube connecting the frame (at the lower bolts) hollow or solid?  And, does anybody have a guess on how long the stock bolt is (cannot tell because I couldn't get the broken pieces out)??

thanks....

[1tinindian]

I'm going throught the very same thing with my 91.
The left side lower bolt was missing when I took the AL foot rest piece off to polish it.
When I looked in the hole, the bolt was broke off and I started to drill it out, BUT man, than broken bolt won't drill worth a damn.
I gave up on it for tonight, but I will have to get back on it with a new approach.
I check the other 3 bolts, and they were all there plus lock tight had been used, so I used a torch to heat them up, and they came right out.
Any advice on how to drill this hard bolt out would be great.

Leon

[simi_ed]

Leon, drilling bolts is never fun!  You will need a sselection of left-hand twist drilll bits and a VERY sharp center punch.  You will need to mark center of the bolt, then start drilling with a small bit.  You must drill down the center of the bolt, or else you'll damage the mating threads!!!

Use plenty of oil!  Also, pre-lube the whole area with acetone/ATF mix, at 50/50.  The will help the bolt when it deciedes to say UNCLE! 

Drill at a low RPM, in reverse.  Start small, then keep increasing the diameter, but stay below the minor diameter of the bolt.  At some point, the bolt WILL yield.  At that point, I'd wash it out with WD-40, run a tap through the hole to make sure the threads are clear and not mucked up.  Then wash it out again with WD-40.

A good source of left had drill bits and a sharp centerpunch is McMaster-Carr. I'd go with either metric or wire gauge bits, to get the required resolution in the bit sizes.  McMaster-Carr is not cheap, but they don't sell crap, so pony up, you'll be glad you did!
http://www.mcmaster.com/#left-hand-drill-bits/=gzkrk2

Good luck!

[micah360]

Well the extractor that broke off inside the bolt is going to be a huge pain to drill out as it's tough as nails.  I tried a colbalt bit for awhile and a diamond dremel attachment for awhile with very little progress.  Getting this extractor bit out is going to prove to be a very long process I'm afraid.

Does anybody know how far the stock bolt threads into the upper part of the frame?  Does it thread all the way through it and into the tubular support that connects the other side??

[1tinindian]

Thanks Ed, I have drilled alot already, mostly as you described, and I think I'll be trying some carbide drill bits tonight.
That left side looks like it must not go all the way through, correct?
That must have been a grade 8 bolt as hard as it is, plus being lock-tightened on top of things make it a challenge.

I have my work cut out for me this weekend, and will be happy to report back when the job is done.

Leon

[glfredrick]

A kit that has really helped me over the years is this one from Snap On:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=630634&group_ID=675450

The kit features drilling guides that can either slip over the stud/bolt or that can be inserted into the bore if the bolt or stud is broken off under the surface.  Then a hardened drill bit is used to bore a hole into the bolt or stud.  A splined extractor is driven in, and a collar with the same splines is used to turn out the extractor.

Works better than the wedge type extractors, which generally expand the problem bolt to a point where it is more difficult to extract than before.

An alternative is to weld a nut to the exposed bolt or stud then use a wrench to turn it out.  Works well also but requires a MIG and a steady hand!

Most extractors that break off can be removed with hammer and chisel, as their hardness is also their weakness.  They will shatter into pieces.

[1tinindian]

As promised, I'm here to tell you what I did to get that broken bolt out of the frame.

Of one of the many different drill bits I bought to attack this problem, I started with a carbide tipped masonry bit...and the damn thing went right through the hard bolt.
It was a 1/8" bit.
I then heated the broken part of the bolt up, still inside the frame, to loosen the lock tight, then lightly tapped a torx screwdriver into the new hole I just drilled, and simply turned the broken bolt outta the hole.
I then chased the hole with a tap and there you have it, a clean threaded hole ready for a new bolt.

Good luck guys, it can be done much easier than what I was prepared for.

Leon