hydraulic clutch

[moonrunnah]

So i just picked up my 86 fj1200 and the clutch didnt have any pressure so i bled it and bled it and nothing
i got home today and took the slave and master off the bike. form here im not sure what to do. the rod came out of the tranny (there is ball that falls out?) my question is where is that ball because it didnt come out and what to do about it my clutch i need all the help i can get thank you

[ELIMINATOR]

Not sure about the ball. But is the slave cylinder leaking fluid/ If it is, there's afair chance that it's stripped the paint off of the body. If you get a repair kit, you must clean the surfaces first, don't just put the new seelas in place.

[moonrunnah]

it does not seem to leak and the master cylinder builds pressure do you know how that rod works

[ELIMINATOR]

not 100% sure, so best i don't comment, sorry.

if the master cylinder builds pressure, why did you bleed the clutch? or I would guess that you thought it should be done?

[moonrunnah]

okay thankyou for your time

[flips]

hi there .

You say you bled the clutch and "nothing".Do you mean no fluid came out or no improvement in clutch operation?.Is there brake fluid in the reservoir?If  you inspect the slave and there's evidence of leaking ,that's your problem and you will need to rebuild or replace it and re bleed the system.If the slave seems OK there is either air in the system or the master cylinder is failing and will require rebuild or replacement.Note- some members sometimes have trouble bleeding the clutch so it can be tricky.Genuine yamaha rebuild kits I have found to be better than aftermarket parts.If you cant find any leaks and bleeding doesn't help,The master sounds like the problem. You can get parts From Randy at rpm....

http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AClutchrbkit
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3Aslavecyl
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK&cat=39

Hope this helps.
Cheers
Jeff P

[fudgejerkin1188]

Hope this makes sence

The ball could/should still be in there as long as you haven't started the engine. It goes on the far end of the rod (the end that actuates the pressure plate) and sits between the rod and a little cap that bears on the pressure plate, it acts as a sort of bearing. If its missing the clutch won't work. The clutch slave cylinder act on the rod which (via the small ball bearing) pushes on the pressure plate via a small cap, pushing it away from the clutch plates and so releasing the pressure on the plate and so releasing the clutch. If the bearing isn't in there the clutch slave cylinder won't be able to "throw" the rod far enough to release the clutch  

Another possibility is the clutch master cylinder seal has failed allowing fluid back past the seal so pressure won't build (it can happen and not leak so it won't be obvious).

Whilst you have the slave cylinder off the bike try clamping the piston  so it can't move then bleed the system to see if you get pressure. If you do it would suggest that the master cylinder and slave cylinder are ok and the missing ball bearing is your problem.
OR
If someone has an accessible  spare engine with the clutch slave off they may be able to measure the amount of pushrod showing when the bearing is in place to give you an idea if its in there or not. (I can't get to my spare engine at the moment otherwise I'd do it for you.
OR
failing that its off with the clutch cover and pressure place to check from that end  

[fudgejerkin1188]

Oops Jeff got there first 

[flips]

Oops Jeff got there first  

Yeah...and I got it wrong about which end the ball is!!! (deleted!) Thanks fudgejerkin1188

here's the diagram... the ball is #26
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1986/FJ1200S/CLUTCH/parts.html
and the master cylinder...
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1986/FJ1200S/FRONT%20MASTER%20CYLINDER%202/parts.html
Cheers

Jeff P

[moonrunnah]

when i bleed it there seams to be no pressure gain in the clutch
i did start the engine with the slave off the bike and not knowing the rod came out with a good squirt of oil but the ball did not i do not know where the ball is. i never saw it, if the ball fell in the transmission how do i get it out

i do believe when that rod is pushed in the clutch should be disengaged (the tire free wheels) but with the fj on the center stand when i put it in gear the tire moves it seams no matter how much i move the rod nothing happens

as for the bleeding issue i believe its bypassing in the mater cylinder and i will order a rebuild kit for that


Thanks for all your help so far

[FJmonkey]

when i bleed it there seams to be no pressure gain in the clutch
i did start the engine with the slave off the bike and not knowing the rod came out with a good squirt of oil but the ball did not i do not know where the ball is. i never saw it, if the ball fell in the transmission how do i get it out

i do believe when that rod is pushed in the clutch should be disengaged (the tire free wheels) but with the fj on the center stand when i put it in gear the tire moves it seams no matter how much i move the rod nothing happens

as for the bleeding issue i believe its bypassing in the mater cylinder and i will order a rebuild kit for that


Thanks for all your help so far

The ball shot out with the rod and the oil, hope your cat/dog was clear of the hydraulically powered bolt.  If you can't find the ball then maybe Randy at RPM can send you another one. They don't fall inside. Elvis has left the engine...... It has happened to many, I was lucky enough to read many posts warning me of this and have, as of yet, avoided it.....

[racerrad8]

It is time to pull the clutch cover and pressure plate to see if the ball is still in there. After you remove the pressure plate and the center hub push rod you will be able to see if the ball is still there.

If you cannot see out the other side it is still in there; if you can see through the shaft to the other side of the engine it is on your floor somewhere.

I do have plenty if you need one, but you will need to make sure it is gone before you install another or the clutch will never engage...

Randy - RPM

[flips]

Would a magnet on a stick do the trick? ...just throwing it out there.....

Cheers

Jeff P

[racerrad8]

Would a magnet on a stick do the trick?

It would as long as the magnet and stick are smaller than 8mm...

Randy - RPM

[SlowOldGuy]

There should be a wear mark on the pushrod. Does it look like it still lines up?  I know several owners who have started their motor with the slave off, shot the pushrod out and did not lose the ball.

If it has sat for awhile, the clutch plates may be stuck together thus making the clutch seem like it's not working correctly.  Put it back together, if you have clutch pressure, put it in gear, pull the clutch and rock the bike back and forth to try and break the plates loose.

If that doesn't work then start taking things apart

DavidR.