New to FJ1200, died and will not re-start

[Matt]

Hi there, 41 year old returning biker, new to the forum and gidday from New Zealand.

I'll do an introduction post soon, in the meantime I wonder if anyone can help shed some light on a problem that I have with a new (to me) 1991 FJ1200.

I just purchased it tonight and was in heaven on the 30km ride home, until I came to an intersection and it died.  It ran like a dream before this, no hesitation at all and smooth as silk.  I managed to re-start and by keeping the revs up was able to ride another kilometre until it stopped again.  After a few minutes of turning it over it fired up but this time only went a 100 metres.  I couldn't re-start it this time (all lights on but no response, click, or anything) so I pushed it 2kms home.  In the dark.  Not happy.

Now at home I discovered that the ignition fuse had blown.  Replaced that and it now turns over but doesn't even try to start (usually a fuel delivery issue will at least splutter a bit).  There is plenty of gas, I have checked the kill switch and side stand switch but if those are activated it just wont turn over.

I'm thinking spark problems, but haven't got an old plug to try in the boot to see if there's anything happening there.  Bear in mind I am a real newbie to these bikes and not a mechanic (took me 20 minutes to try and find out how to get the seat off) but I am generally pretty logical with mechanical things.

I'd appreciate it if anyone has had these symptoms before and can help at all.

Cheers

Matt

[Matt]

I've just read the troubleshooting guide and do not hear anything at all with regard to this:

Turn the key on, turn the killswitch on, and listen.  On a bike with a fuel pump, it'll click rapidly for about 5 seconds.  Turn the key off, then turn it back on.  It'll click some more, but if you keep doing this, it will slow down and eventually stop clicking.  That means the carbs are full and the float needles are stopping it from moving more gas into the carbs.

Could be relevant.  I have taken the side panels off and on the right a hose leads to a cylindrical metal object (Mitsubishi logo) that could possibly be the fuel pump? The other hose leads off to the carbys I think.

Edit:  Doesn't look like I have any spark either.  Just pulled a boot off and popped an old plug in the boot and nothing there.

[miked]

Hi Matt, It sounds like your previous owner may have fitted an aftermaerket fuel pump. If you don't hear it operating when you turn the key on, I would start there (I had a similar problem) the pump turned out to be fine, but the wiring to it was bloody awfull. Check first that there is power to it, if not, thats where you should start, if there is, the easiest thing to do, would be take off the hose to the carbs, put it in a jar and power it up, see if fuel is pumped out. Once you eliminate the pump, you can start on the harder things.

Cheers

Mike

[ribbert]

Edit:  Doesn't look like I have any spark either.  Just pulled a boot off and popped an old plug in the boot and nothing there.



Did you make sure the metal part of the plug was in contact (earthed) with the motor?  It won't spark unless it is.

[Matt]

The plug that supplies the pump reads about 9 volts as soon as ignition is on, I pulled the pipe that leads to the carbs and no gas is flowing at all.  I've now taken the other pipe from the tank off the pump and connected an inline filter to run the gas direct to the carbs and ... wait for it ... the battery is now dead due to trying to start the bike over the past few hours.

As far as the spark plug earthing is concerned - I'm not confident that it's actually earthing due to the painted head.

I'll recharge the battery and keep trying....

Thanks for the replies fellas, most appreciated.

[Matt]

Well, it was the fuel pump.  Jump started using my son's scooter battery and once fuel made it to the engine it started!!

Thanks for the advice

[ribbert]

The plug that supplies the pump reads about 9 volts as soon as ignition is on, I pulled the pipe that leads to the carbs and no gas is flowing at all.  I've now taken the other pipe from the tank off the pump and connected an inline filter to run the gas direct to the carbs and ... wait for it ... the battery is now dead due to trying to start the bike over the past few hours.

As far as the spark plug earthing is concerned - I'm not confident that it's actually earthing due to the painted head.

I'll recharge the battery and keep trying....

Thanks for the replies fellas, most appreciated.

Without knowing for sure whether it's missing spark or fuel it's a bit hard to make suggestions without being all over the shop and wasting time. If you're still none the wiser when the battery's recharged let us know and someone will guide you through a methodical diagnosis rather than randomly targeting bits all over the bike.
Noel

[FJTillDeath]

Well, it was the fuel pump.  Jump started using my son's scooter battery and once fuel made it to the engine it started!!

Thanks for the advice

Congrats on the ride These machines may have a couple problems but most are relatively easy to fix.

[oldktmdude]

  G'day Matt, check that your fuel cap is venting properly. It's a common problem and there is a lot of information about it on this site. Do a search and follow the instructions on how sort this problem out.  Regards, Pete.   

[andyb]

Glad ya sussed it.

[Arnie]

Its best to replace that pump, but unless you want to contribute to your dealer's overflowing drinking fund, don't just buy a new yamaha pump from him.  These pumps will work just fine and they cost much less.  You may have to wire the original plug to the new pump and may need to adjust for straight or bent inlet/outlet pipes.

Arnie

FUEL PUMPs   
  Brand      Part No      Pressure Range   Max. Flow

  FEDTRO   FED-40104    1.5 – 3.5psi   28 gph   

                         FED-40105    2.5 – 4.5psi   30 gph
   Sold on Ebay.au by       the_auction_broker  (Philip Island)

* FuelFlo        015        1  -  4psi   23 gph  1.5Lpm   
   Repco supplied for A$110.00

Airtex -       ES8016S      2.5-4.5 PSI   30 GPH

[RichBaker]

Well, it was the fuel pump.  Jump started using my son's scooter battery and once fuel made it to the engine it started!!

Thanks for the advice

How old is the battery? If a few years, it's probably bad, even new it could be bad..... get it load tested, most parts stores will do it free.  If the carbs are full, the pump won't pump.

If the engine isn't turning over (cranking), there won't be any spark.....  9V may not be enough for the fuel pump to pump, I'm not sure.

The cap vent is NOT normally an issue with the fuel pump-equipped bikes.

I'd make sure I had a good battery before I did/bought anything else......

Congrats on the new-to-you bike!!   

[Matt]

Well all's well that ends well.  I picked up a pump today from a local wrecker for NZ$45.  Was quoted $493 for a new one from the Yamaha agent!

Spliced in the old plug to the new leads and as soon as I turned on the ignition it tock tock tocked.  Put my finger over the outlet pipe and it slowed then stopped.  The old one never did anything at all.  So I put it in the old cage and attached it to the bike, connecting up the pipes and things did as they should.

I had run down the battery (2 months old) with prior attempts at starting and after an overnight charge the voltage at the pump power socket was 12 volts.

So, although I am a bit worried about going on a ride in case anything else happens I guess I will just take my phone and stay in urban areas for now - no fun in that though

I seem to have a knack in buying "projects".  A few bikes ago I had a 84 Honda CX500 which certainly helped me understand how bikes work and thanks to a UK forum I was able to sort things out myself with advice from knowledgeable CX owners  This forum looks to be a place I will be spending time on from now on as a proud FJ owner, not just asking for questions, but enjoying the friendship and ideas that you guys have.  The internet is a wonderful thing for sure

Cheers

Matt

[miked]

Hi again Matt,
Really glad to hear you got it sorted.
Don't lose heart mate, it will be well worth it once you iron all the bugs out. I am going through the exact same thing with my bike.
I've resorted to just concentrating on one thing at a time, with rides becoming increasingly longer as I find and fix all the annoying little problems the previous owner swore didn't exist ;-)
All the best.

Mike

[andyb]

The cap vent is NOT normally an issue with the fuel pump-equipped bikes.

Makes an annoying noise after you park the bike, though.

Fuel pump won't click if the bowls are full (and the float needles are doing their job properly), but popping the line off and looking makes it easy to figure out.

FJ's are hard on tires, batteries, and chains.  Buy good ones, or expect to replace them quite frequently