Hard Start, Runs Sterling

[McKilla Guerilla]

I live in NW Jersey, the summer here has been hot. 80-100 during the day, mid 60s to 80's @ night. I feel like in this weather my FJ should be starting a little easier than it is.

By Hard Start I mean I have to put 2-3 clicks on the Choke lever in the morning, middle of day, after work or after any considerable off time. It will idle there a min on 2 clicks, lil bit high, coupla seconds 1 click choke lever idle HIGH (2-3krpm) but will not idle no choke for a coupla mins. I usually feather it till I get to the main rd & if I run it a mile or 2 she idles just fine no choke

If I shut the bike off for longer than 5 min, like @ lunch even, I have to 1 click choke it or no choke with fuel to get her to start. doesn't matter if I rode 5 min or 500 miles

Is all of this normal?

Lemme start off by saying that my 85 1100 runs great every day. When I bought the bike it was a hard start & idled horribly. I've done plugs, K&N filter & removed my carbs to clean them out (boy howdy did they need it) since I cleaned the carbs the bike definitely starts easier & runs 110 percent better . Since then it's still a hard start but it runs & idles great (long as it's warmed up) got the K&N, 4-1 Stainless Supertrapp, the idle mixture screws haven't been tampered with (blocking plugs are still in), and the (new) plugs show minor signs of burning lean (whitish appearance but not stark)

Here are the questions, I read on this forum the relay to coil mod (Which I'm doing no matter what) that post states that the coils could be receiving as little as 10volts which would make them unhappy when the bike is cold but once the bike is warm & easier to combust & harder to notice. could this alone be making the bike start hard?

Regarding the whitish appearance, could a minorly lean burning bike make a hard start & or wouldn't that affect the bike hot or cold? I spoke to an old timer Yamaha mechanic & he told me that with just the filter & pipe it prob isn't necessary to jet the bike but that I should drill the plugs, turn the screws out to peak idle (once idle begins to drop the bike will be running rich of course) and to add a washer in the needle assembly (he told me the needles prob don't have moveable circlips) and to Sync my carbs which it must need cause the previous owner didn't even know what it meant when I asked him. Could just a bad carb sync cause a hard start? can the sync get that out of whack if no mixture screws are disturbed?

One last thing (I know, don't yell @ me) when I was cleaning the carbs I couldn't get the float pins out to get to the screen beneath them, looked like I might break the ears in there if I pushed that pin too hard. I sprayed what I could in there with c&c, the bike is rideable now so I know that my cleaning was effective but idk if I should go back in there to remove & really douche those screens. Do these bikes have any other method of fuel filtration or am I missing something? my XJ600 had a regular inline fuel filter.

I'm thinking that the coil mod & a carb tune & sync will solve my issues but I always like a 2nd (4-5-6th) opinion.

Thanks  -Bill C.

[mikeholzer]

The short answer: YES. I have to use the choke pretty much all the time to get my bike running. Not a big issue. If I recall correctly, this was discussed some time back, and others responded similarly.

[racerman_27410]

Perfectly normal to have to use the choke on a cold engine.



KOokaloo!

[fb747]

Just as a bit of a contrast, now that it has warmed up I can usually start mine with the choke off and a bit of throttle. However mine is an 89 with a fuel pump.

I'm no expert but I have seen pics on here of the screens you mentioned quite gunked up.

[Flying Scotsman]

My 85 is an easy starter the 90 takes some choke but its still a work in progress.

[simi_ed]

Bill, since you asked, here's my $0.02:  Welcome to the world of shitty gas

You are describing a lean mixture behavior, all of which are aggravated by the free-flowing exhaust, less restrictive air filter and ethanol-diluted gasoline.  
You will need to bump the pilot jets to #40, and removed the caps over the mixture screws.  Pull the mixture adjusters and clean out the pilot circuit, from the pilot air jet to the carb bowl to the mixture screws to the down bore port; be sure they're all clear.  And I would dump the K&N filter for either Uni pods, or a Uni-OEM replacement or even an OEM filter.

And even after all the cleaning & re-jetting, your FJ is still going to need the choke to start quite often.  You'll know if does, cause she won't light.  

All I can tell you is BTDT!  

Ed

[Kurt J]

Ed, sorry to jump in here.....But why dump the K/N air filters? I run a set on mine and don't seem to have any problems. Not being a smart a$$, is there something I missed while reading different threads//

Thanks Kurt

[Dan Filetti]

Ed, sorry to jump in here.....But why dump the K/N air filters? I run a set on mine and don't seem to have any problems. Not being a smart a$$, is there something I missed while reading different threads//

Thanks Kurt

The general consensus seems to be that the K/N filters are ill-fitting, and potentially prone to improper seal.  Although, to be fair, I do not know this first hand about the K/N, I've just read it here and over on the Yahoo site many multiple times. However, generally a poor fitting air filter is a very bad thing.  I read once where a piece of airborne dust -like pin-head size, is capable of scoring a cylinder wall.  Proper air filtration is, it would seem, key.  It's one of those things, like 'never use after-market fork seals' -part of the accumulated FJ lore.

Take it for what it's worth.

Dan

[Kurt J]

You are correct Dan. The K/N's did not fit right. I had to take the inside lip out to get a good fit to the carb's. The K/N filters where a little small inside with the lip and would not get a tight fit and you could not push them on far enough.

Kurt 

[RichBaker]

Ed, sorry to jump in here.....But why dump the K/N air filters? I run a set on mine and don't seem to have any problems. Not being a smart a$$, is there something I missed while reading different threads//

Thanks Kurt

Because K&Ns don't filter worth beans..... They let WAY too much fine stuff through.

I was going to post pretty much the same advice Ed did.... My '90 starts with no choke at anything over 90, no problems.  I have #40 pilots and my mixture screws are all around 1 turn out. UNI dual pods, D&D exh., DJ needles, air correctors and mains.
I also agree with Ed on pulling the mixture screws and cleaning that circuit good..... unless you pull them when doing the rest of the carb, that circuit has NOT been correctly done.

[McKilla Guerilla]

Bill, since you asked, here's my $0.02:  Welcome to the world of shitty gas

You are describing a lean mixture behavior, all of which are aggravated by the free-flowing exhaust, less restrictive air filter and ethanol-diluted gasoline.  
You will need to bump the pilot jets to #40, and removed the caps over the mixture screws.  Pull the mixture adjusters and clean out the pilot circuit, from the pilot air jet to the carb bowl to the mixture screws to the down bore port; be sure they're all clear.  And I would dump the K&N filter for either Uni pods, or a Uni-OEM replacement or even an OEM filter.

Where can I purchase just #40 pilot jets? Everything I see for sale is a stage 1-3 jet kit for like $100 bucks.  I'm not a fan of Uni Pods, don't they make unhappy in the rain? I'm a daily rider, rain is inevitable for me. My K&N seems to fit proper in the oem housing but I suppose I could take another peek see @ it. I'd hate to ditch the thing, just bought it. Are you K&N nay sayers riding the 1100 or the 1200? did they have a diff filter box? mine is a flat filter, seemed to go in with a tiny hassle making me feel that it was DEF sealed cuz it felt a lil tight. the support bar also fit well.

On a side note, I'm not sure if they dilute our gas up here in the Dirty Jerz. If I'm not mistaken our fuel comes into Port Newark from overseas & we receive it @ the pump unmolested. I know that when I rode out to Seattle that ethanol enriched crap made my bike run funny & gave me Horrid fuel mileage. That bike didn't have a fuel gauge & I ran out twice. (pushing a bike down the interstate is no fun )

And even after all the cleaning & re-jetting, your FJ is still going to need the choke to start quite often.  You'll know if does, cause she won't light.  

BAH with more of the choke. I hate having to choke an engine on a hot day, seems a lil silly to me but whatever. I love my FJ. I'll do what it takes to keep her happy

[RichBaker]

Local bike shop may have them, one here in town did for me.... Otherwise, I'll bet RPMRandy has them. Or, Sudco will.... They're just standard Mikuni jets.

[McKilla Guerilla]

Because K&Ns don't filter worth beans..... They let WAY too much fine stuff through.

I was going to post pretty much the same advice Ed did.... My '90 starts with no choke at anything over 90, no problems.  I have #40 pilots and my mixture screws are all around 1 turn out. UNI dual pods, D&D exh., DJ needles, air correctors and mains.
I also agree with Ed on pulling the mixture screws and cleaning that circuit good..... unless you pull them when doing the rest of the carb, that circuit has NOT been correctly done.

I will definitely pull those screws & clean that circut.

[McKilla Guerilla]

Local bike shop may have them, one here in town did for me.... Otherwise, I'll bet RPMRandy has them. Or, Sudco will.... They're just standard Mikuni jets.

Awesome, I'll start my search

[racerrad8]

Where can I purchase just #40 pilot jets?  

Awesome, I'll start my search

Search no more...your one stop carb parts shopping; www.RPMracingCa.com (Heck for most of your other FJ needs as well)

As far as the K&N filter for the airbox, they work satisfactorily since they are not in the direct path of the mist spray from the carbs. The K&N single & dual pod filters are washed of the filtration oil(s) by the mist from the carb throats and rendered useless.

As far as the UNI's in the rain, I have never had a problem. I rode my bike the whole winter of 2010; rain, fog, cold, etc and did not have any problems. The inner fender panel for the rear tire keep them protected. Several guys rode up to the WCR in the rain running UNI pods and there was no issues reported there either.

Randy - RPM