FIGHT THE POWER

[Klavdy]

Come on Dan, do try and keep up.

How many people have died in Terrorist related air attacks since the introduction of these X-Ray machines?
How many deaths will these machines contribute to?
Have these X-Ray machines been proven to have stopped ANY attempted attacks?

[Dan Filetti]

My only point is that if she was there to make a point, and there is some evidence to suggest she was, and if she posted this to further make that point, and manipulate the rest of us in the process, then she got what she deserved.  

If it's legit, then yeah, this is yet another example of the TSA coming down on the wrong side of things.

Based on what I saw, I'd bet that she was hoping for conflict, and she got it.

Why did she just happen to have a copy of the TSA rules?
Why did they say she had been there the week before causing trouble?
Why were they talking about play her game/ dog and pony show?
Why did the TSA officer write down her name and put it in his pocket?

If this were Jane Q citizen, yeah, it would piss me off.  But this seems staged, and I'll not be manipulated.

Dan  

[Dan Filetti]

I'm up.  Your point was that the backscatter X-ray causes an additional 10 deaths per year which is more deadly that terrorists attacks.

I say this is statistically unfounded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

Literally, 10's of thousand have died at the hands of terrorists, in the US alone.  Certainly terrorists are 'deadlier' than the backscatter X-ray.

[Klavdy]

I'll not be manipulated.

It is too late mate, you already have been.

Why did she have the rules?
Better question is why the TSA did not follow them

Staged or not, what justification do the TSA employees have to treat anyone in that way?

Please, don't quote Wikipedia, we've been through why that source is totally unreliable before.
Now, how many people have died in air terror attacks since the introduction of the X-Ray machines?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and Warrants shall not be issued, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[RichBaker]

No one 'makes' these people do anything...

If they don't want to do what is required to pass the checkpoint, they can simply turn around and leave.     

Randy T
Indy

According to recent reports, NO, you can NOT...... unless you're willing to face a Civil lawsuit and $11,000 fine. 
I DON'T fly, except on my bikes, and haven't in a few years, because I refuse to put up with TSAs crap..... They don't do anything worthwhile....
I don't consider their knee-jerk reactions "security"..... Nothing but abuse and "controlling the peons".

[rktmanfj]

No one 'makes' these people do anything...

If they don't want to do what is required to pass the checkpoint, they can simply turn around and leave.     

Randy T
Indy

Randy, you have a direct connection and interest in defending the TSA's practices.

<inflammatory  regurgitated media hype snipped>

Okay, Klavdy... you're the expert here, but let's get something straight... While I do work in the airport, I DO NOT work for TSA (or any other branch of the US Government), and do not have any interest whatsoever in defending them.

I do, however, get to watch very closely, on a regular basis, what the TSA does.

IMO, this issue has been VERY much overhyped by a media who knows too well that a story doesn't need to be accurate as long as it pulls in the ratings.

This not to say that I agree one bit with what they are doing right now.

Stir this pot all you want, but don't you EVER presume to know what I do, say, or think, unless you get it directly from me.

Randy T
Indy

[Klavdy]

No one 'makes' these people do anything...

If they don't want to do what is required to pass the checkpoint, they can simply turn around and leave.      

Randy T
Indy

Randy, you have a direct connection and interest in defending the TSA's practices.

<inflammatory  regurgitated media hype snipped>

Okay, Klavdy... you're the expert here, but let's get something straight... While I do work in the airport, I DO NOT work for TSA (or any other branch of the US Government), and do not have any interest whatsoever in defending them.

I do, however, get to watch very closely, on a regular basis, what the TSA does.

IMO, this issue has been VERY much overhyped by a media who knows too well that a story doesn't need to be accurate as long as it pulls in the ratings.

This not to say that I agree one bit with what they are doing right now.

Stir this pot all you want, but don't you EVER presume to know what I do, say, or think, unless you get it directly from me.

Randy T
Indy

Shit stir?
Moi?
AGGGHHHH!!!
HE'S ONTO ME!!!!
Been a good one but, made a few blokes think, eh?
All in all though, that wankstain with the breastfeeding chick, that was utter, utter bastardry.

[RichBaker]

I'm not buyin it......why would she be bringing unrefrigerated breast milk on a plane for her son's dinner??

Thought the same thing.  They even indicated that she had caused trouble before, and were going to need to play her game/ dog and pony show...  Also, where was the kid?

Dan  

Caused trouble?? She filed a complaint......

Storage of breast milk (from here:
Storage Guidelines
All milk should be dated before storing. Storing milk in 2-4 ounce amounts may reduce waste. Refrigerated milk has more anti-infective properties than frozen milk. Cool fresh milk in the refrigerator before adding it to previously frozen milk.

Preferably, human milk should be refrigerated or chilled right after it is expressed. Acceptable guidelines for storing human milk are as follows. Store milk:

at room temperature (66-78°F, 19-26°C) for 4 hours (ideal), up to 6 hours (acceptable) (Some sources use 8 hours)
in a refrigerator (<39°F, <4°C) for 72 hours (ideal); up to 8 days (acceptable)
in a freezer (-0.4 to -4°F, -18 to -20°C) for 6 months (ideal) up to 12 months (acceptable)


Looks more like abuse of power to me.....

[Dan Filetti]

Klavdy

These are people trying to do their jobs, just people.  I don't quite know what you do for a living.  But if you were on the job, and someone came there looking to provoke you, intentionally, having done the same thing just a week before, tell me you're not going to do what you can to fuck right back with that person.

You did not answer my question.  Why did she have a copy of the rules?  The answer: to fuck with these guys.  Well, she got fucked with right back -just like you or I would do in their shoes.  Again, I have little sympathy for her.  I would have greater outrage if she were not asking/ in fact begging to be screwed with.  Should they have done what they did? -No.  But they are human.

The TSA are at best, largely a bunch of apathetic, incompetent, idiots -this group included.  At worst they abuse their power, on this I believe we can agree.  In the end, it is in fact a miracle that we have not had more loss.

The other side to this is as follows:  If we assume that we can continue to ascribe to the Blackstone ratio, whereby "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffers" then we will be killed off in greater numbers then can ultimately be sustained.  This latest batch of terrorists don't play by the rules that Blackstone understood, they 'get 72 virgins, if they just kill themselves and as many of us as they can in the process.  It's a tough enemy to fight, that does not mind, in fact welcomes, dying.   I do not have the answers to what to do here.  

I do not fault the TSA for trying though.  I'd submit to a backscatter X-ray, if it means that I may be safer.  No problem, what's the big deal?

Keep stirring though, fun.          

[Dan Filetti]

Caused trouble?? She filed a complaint......

I'm merely paraphrasing what I saw the video.  Go back and watch it again.  She was ostensibly detained because she had apparently been there the week before, agitating.  I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain her goal was to provoke these TSA agents into doing something complaint-worthy.

Think about it: how would you react if someone came to where you worked, with the expressed goal of screwing with you, with an eye on proving some point about rules you had nothing to do with writing.  How would you feel? What would you do if you knew this person had also done something similar only a week before?  Again, am I saying it's right?  -No.  But from where I sit this deserves no outrage.

Dan

[Kopfjaeger]

just shows that people are stupid and dangerous and SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS!!! thats why i like helmets and hate intercoms. and particularly large bodies of people  who have our "best interests" and "welfare" and "security" in mind. worst bit is we keep paying em voting them in and doing nothing to change circumstances..... along the vein of "hey.... we are polluting the earth with fossil fuels.... lets make ELECTRIC cars!!!" yay. power corrupts absolute power corrupts absoluytly

[Klavdy]

Caused trouble?? She filed a complaint......

I'm merely paraphrasing what I saw the video.  Go back and watch it again.  She was ostensibly detained because she had apparently been there the week before, agitating.  I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain her goal was to provoke these TSA agents into doing something complaint-worthy.

Think about it: how would you react if someone came to where you worked, with the expressed goal of screwing with you, with an eye on proving some point about rules you had nothing to do with writing.  How would you feel? What would you do if you knew this person had also done something similar only a week before?  Again, am I saying it's right?  -No.  But from where I sit this deserves no outrage.




Dan

One would act professionally, not let subjective opinion cloud the objective fact that there are rules and procedures that must be followed in these settings.
This is not about the breastfeeding mother, it is about the corruption and malfeasance of the TSA.
It makes no difference what she may or may not have done prior to this episode, it is not up to the TSA to "Teach her a lesson"


So, following your logic,Cops can pull you over('coz that's where the Cops work)and if you ask them for probable or primary cause for the stop(screwing with the Cop) they can say "Fuck You, I didn't write the rules so they don't apply to me, I'll do as I please ,citizen."

Malfeasance is intentionally doing something either legally or morally wrong which one had no right to do. It always involves dishonesty, illegality, or knowingly exceeding authority for improper reasons.

[indyblue]

This whole scan or pat down thing is overkill and unnecessary.  The Israeli's seem to manage good security without all the intrusiveness.

For the price of each of these machines (which seems like nothing more than some politicians guaranteeing their buddies a nice profit) you could buy and train many explosive sniffing dogs that would be more accurate, productive, and less intrusive than this.

Unless forced to for business reasons, I don't plan on flying anymore.  I have nothing to hide, but this is truly Orwellian and I don't care to be exposed to X-rays any more than medically necessary.

The terrorists are succeeding in their mission to remove all traces of a free democratic republic (and shred our constitution) from earth.

[lawson]

Lets send someone thru exam area fully dress in motorcycle gear.    Everything -  Thermos, Headsock, Motocross Helmet with mirrored goggles, Pads, Pants, Overpants, Rainsuits,  MotoBoots with all metal clasps and bindings, Oh - can't forget the gloves -The ones with all metal nuckle protecters! Everything -The Works .Now lets film not this guy - but all the people waiting behind him.   

[lawson]

Myself personally feels all of this precautionary examining scanning can be eliminated.   For all who chose to fly will be seated in a 300 passenger Glider and will be tow to their destination of choice with complinary music and selected beverage.  They get unruly , tow pilot starts whipping vehicle attached to rear and says over speaker "we are experiencing a slight level of turbulence".   You just have to start thinking out of box - or plane in this case - to come up with answers.   This can't be any crazier than a FJ with a sidecar