Brakes? What brakes?

[MrFox]

Hello Everyone:

I recently purchased an '85 FJ11 from the original owner (with full service records from day 1!).  The front end was upgraded from a 90s FJ12-non ABS.

The rotors were starting to warp when I bought it, so while replacing those, I have decided to look into upgrading the calipers also.  The calipers that are on it now look like the stock 90 FJ1200 gold 4 pin that I've seen online.  I've read the archives on the blue dot / gold dot upgrades but have not found the info I'm looking for.

Do I have to swap the MC out for a newer one, or can I replace the calipers only?  Or, should I just leave them alone?  The brake lines have been upgraded to braided also.

Thanks!  This is a great forum!

[Firehawk068]

Mr Fox,
Alot of people just replace the calipers.......Some will leave it this way. Others will change the master cylinder.
It all depends on preference, and how much $$$ you have to spend...
It also depends on what master cylinder you use, as to the feel/action of the front brakes.
Changing to a master with a larger bore causes a quicker action of the calipers, but results in less leverage you will have from the brake lever.
Changing to a master with a smaller bore slows the action of the calipers, but you will have more leverage, and a longer travel at the lever.
I am not sure which one gives better feedback/feel............some of the members that have tried both could tell you..
When I did mine, I put R1 calipers, EBC "HH" pads, an FJR1300 master cylinder, and braided stainless lines on all at the same time...
The difference in feel and stopping power was Immense!

Hope this helps, and Welcome to the group! 

[the fan]

My YZf had the same basic brakes as the 89+ FJ. I tried several combinations up front and here are the results.

1. stock calipers, lines, and master(5/8"): decent feel and power considering age of machine. Prone to fade when pushed hard
2. stock calipers, braided lines, and stock master: slightly improved feel and power, still prone to fade when pushed hard
3. 01 R6 calipers, braided lines, stock master: Great power but very wooden feel, no fade but had to be very careful when pushed hard to prevent lockup.
4: 01 R6 calipers, braided lines, 01 R6 (14mm) master: very good power and feel, no fade and excellent control when pushed hard
5: 01 R6 caliper, Braided lines, 09 R1 radial master: impressive power and feel, no fade but had to adjust braking points on track as brakes were much stronger than before and bike stopped a little too well...
6: 01 R6 caliper Braided lines 09 R1 radial master aftermarket rotors (chinese galfer knock offs): impressive power and feel, no fade but had to adjust braking points on track as brakes were much stronger than before. Slight handling improvement due to lighter rotors.

all of the above were run with stock rotors and either stock pads or Ferodo sintered HH pads. (Ferodo pads offered slightly better power but were very noisy)

7: 01 R6 caliper, Braided lines, 09 R1 radial master, aftermarket rotors, SBS dual carbon race pads: Amazing power and feel when hot, slightly worse than stock pads cold or wet but still very good. Brake points at trackdays are now scary late but with confidence equal or better than most modern bikes.

My YZf is appx 100 lbs lighter than the FJ but then again I am 50++ pounds heavier... I am a fairly aggressive rider and do a lot of trackdays and races on my bike. From step 4 on I have been able to push very hard at the track often lightening the back wheel on very hard braking corners. In truth from step 5 on I feel the bike may have too much power for the flexy 41mm forks and heavy chassis as I occasionally get some fairly interesting movement entering turns hard on the brakes. with my current set up I run with just one finger on the lever in most if not all braking situations.

[MrFox]

Thanks the fan and firehawk!  That is the kind of info I was looking for.

Would you say that stock master + braided lines + R1 calipers would be good for normal street use?  I want to avoid too much brake and lock the wheel up if possible.

thanks!

[the fan]

I did not care for the 5/8" master with the monoblocs. There was little or no feel for what the front wheel was doing. A 14mm master is a far better choice.

[Mark Olson]

the feel is much better with the 14mm master. fjr or r-1

[pdxfj]

Do the 14mm M/C with the R1/R6/YZF 600 calipers. 

What you'll have is front brakes that are so smooth and powerful all you really need is two fingers on the lever to get any amount of stopping power you want.

[racerman_27410]

14mm master..... its not really the extra stopping power so much as it adds the ability to modulate the brakes better.... IE better feel and control in all situations .

The FJR master has the integrated resevoir for a more stock look

[MrFox]

Thanks for the info on switching to a 14mm. So the list of 14mm that works is:

FJR
FZ1
R-1

Any others?

Also, can I use the braided cables that are on it now for the stock brake system, or would I have to buy new ones?

Thanks!  You guys are a huge help.

[Firehawk068]

I used a set of braided lines for the FJ.........they worked for the R1 calipers, and FJR1300 master cylinder.

[andyb]

The only way the braided lines won't work if if you've got a much taller set of bars than usual, or if you get a master with a different orientation at the master, I'd think.

[MrFox]

Thanks!

I wasn't sure if there was a different diameter or size of brake lines.  There should be enough length, as it seems there is some wiggle room with the cables that are on my FJ.  I should have looked before I asked.   

Well, I guess I'm now on the look out for a new master cylinder and calipers!

[Yamifj1200]

Keep your eyes on Ebay, many times you can pick up calipers with good brake pads cheaper than a new set of OEM brake pads. I was able to pick up a set of 2002 FZ1 front brake calipers and master cylinder for my 85 model for only 72.00 and shipping..


Eric M

[wakdady]

what about the MC from a '03+ R6? what size is that? would that work well?

Thanks for the info on switching to a 14mm. So the list of 14mm that works is:

FJR
FZ1
R-1

Any others?

Also, can I use the braided cables that are on it now for the stock brake system, or would I have to buy new ones?

Thanks!  You guys are a huge help.

[rktmanfj]

what about the MC from a '03+ R6? what size is that? would that work well?

Bore size is usually cast into the body of the m/c... you want a 14mm.

If it says 14mm on it, you can probably make it work.

Randy T
indy