rear brake issuees

[Kopfjaeger]

ok went for a ride and the rear brake lever had about 10 mm of movement was bloody hard.... left it for ten minutes or so ..(seeing man about a dog) got back on.... NO rear brakes. lever goes all the way to the floor so to speak and no pressure build up. ok.
fresh full fluid. bled the system repeatedly, no air bubbles  or any crap coming out,  i dont think its the plunger assembly as im getting fluid coming out nipples.....  i reckon i have damaged the seals  but there is no weeping or dripping or nothing rear unit is clean. im going to pull it out this weekend...( sux cos im a back braker.... fronts are for last minute OSHIT!!!!  stops ) all im sorta wanting to know is... is it a major pain in the arse?  am i better stripping it out and taking the whole caliper and dropping at grease monkeys? or have you lot done this sort of thing aforee and its just a bit fiddly with a lot of verbal lubrication to get it all back together?
got new rotor put on about 2 months ago maybe new pads, they still have a lot of pad left.... bought these "organic"? brake pads on recommendation from bike shop, they dont wear it seems they just throw a lot of crap about and make my brakes sound like old unserviced drum brakes. squel like a stuck pig when you pull up... so im going back to ebc brakes....
long winded its probably a simple fix, just pushed for time havnt really got the time to dick with it. any info a great help. o and for all my gloating bout bt45 battleaxe tyres? about 12000k's front cupped on rh side rear flattened off and a big crack in my rear.... who says life isnt exciting?

[Arnie]

Good opportunity for you to learn to use the front brakes. ;-)

Should you need a rear caliper, I have one spare you can have for postage.

Cheers,
Arnie

[the fan]

In most cases when a rear caliper fails you will have excess wheel drag and the pedal is very stiff. In most cases you can disassemble the caliper and scrub the parts with a light penetrating oil to free them up. I like to polish the pistons with a fine emory cloth and penetrating oil as well. You should wash the parts in brake fluid to remove the oil before reassembly.

It sounds like you problem may actually be an issue with the master cylinder. I would disassemble it and inspect. You will probably find that the rubber seal has failed.

[Dan Filetti]

+1 on the relative value of the front breaks.   I've read (and experienced first hand) that the fronts provide something like 80% more breaking power than the back.  The rotors are bigger, there are two of them, and the compression of the forks helps to 'load' them and further slow the bike more effectively.  (I think that's how it works +/-)  You really should learn to use the fronts more than you use the backs.  I think you'll find that the bike stops MUCH faster and with more control.

For me, I'm the opposite of you, I only ever go for the back in a panic stop situation.

Dan

 

[andyb]

Front brakes supply between 100% and 50% of the braking force, depending on the road conditions (and rider's ability/preference).

Should have the ability to use both or either on command at any time, comfortably, in case of a failure at one end or the other.  

Using the rear brake is more for helping control the chassis movement in various situations, but it can be used to stop too, if you're on the street and going sensible speeds.

Dan:  The bigger rotors help dissapate heat better than the rear, provide more clampable area, and have better leverage on the wheel.  The forks don't have to compress in any way for the weight on the front to increase though, as the bike sees negative g-loading (decelleration) it effectively moves weight forward onto the front contact patch and off the rear one, until the bike flips completely over.  It doesn't have to compress the fork springs to do so, though it will if they're functional, the sag basically increases as the weight does.

[indyblue]

I have always used both front & rears and like it that way.  Once you get used to using them both, it becomes a natural habit I don't have to think about.

It has saved me on a couple occasions from losing it due to oil/sand where I surely would have lost it using just the front brakes.  My rear brake lights also seem to light up as soon as I depress the rear brake pedal vs. having to add a little more front braking to engage the lights so I can warn traffic behind me without slowing down much.

[Mark Olson]

sounds like your brake master is shot.

use your front brakes 

[Dan Filetti]

Oil and sand on the road qualifies as a panic stop situation for me.  I use the back brake when the front may not be enough to slow me in time, or may loose traction.  maybe 5% of the time.  I have felt where it can help to 'settle the chassis' coming into a corner/ bumpy corner too hot -but I've always suspected that it may be simply a matter of shedding unwanted speed at that point, no so much 'settling the chassis' -not sure though.  

Still, I probably over compensated for the fact that I used to use the back waaaay more than the front.

Dan

[andyb]

By settling the chassis, talking about using the rear brake with the front in trail braking (keeps it from trying to stand up), using the rear brake while on the gas to increase ground clearance, and yes, using the extra force for taking some load off the front.

I've ridden too many bikes with garbage brakes at one or both ends (and garbage suspensions, and motors, and tires, and so on....), so it's just gotten to be a habit to be very aware of both if not using both.  There's places where I'll go for just one or the other, but they're far between!

[SlowOldGuy]

There's a reason there are 2 braking systems on motorcycles.

Doohan used the rear brake enough to develop the thumb rear brake after he injured his right foot.   Similar systems are now used on practically all racing motorcycles.  Nicky Hayden was known for his use of the rear brake.  The Honda people went to great lengths to discourage him from using it by giving him a smaller rear rotor.

I've seen far too many young sportbike riders that proudly say they NEVER use the rear brake.  And probably just as many stupid cruisers that say they never use the front brake.  Both groups are missing an important component to safe riding.

Yes, if you're blazing down the straight and then braking hard enough to float the rear wheel, the rear brake is not of much use.  However, if you're riding at a slightly more sane pace where that kind of braking is not required then the rear brake is a very useful tool. 

You should also probably re-read The Pace article about street riding.  Either that or list me as your life insurance beneficiary.

DavidR.

[simi_ed]

I USED to say I never use the rear brake, but now I'd say rarely is more accurate.  I had a few bad experiences (on other bikes) with the rear unloading & trying to come around.  That was an effective deterrent for me.  Now, I'd say when poor road conditions appear or at a stop, is the some total of my rear braking.

YMMV!

[RichBaker]

Good opportunity for you to learn to use the front brakes. ;-)

Should you need a rear caliper, I have one spare you can have for postage.

Cheers,
Arnie

Arnie beat me to it...... and he's RIGHT!

[Dan Filetti]

maybe 7 years ago, Superbike magazine showed some metrics captured from on-bike monitors of folks as they circled Brand Hatch, a track in the UK.  Turns out the vast majority of the folks used the front brake something like 90% more than the back.

In fact, it was this article, in conjunction with realizing I was replacing my back brakes 2:1 with the fronts, that made me consciously migrate to the using the fronts, well, ~ 90-95% of the time. If it's good enough for those folks, it's good enough for me.

Dan

[Kopfjaeger]

thanks fellas... and thanks arnie will let you know im looking at it this wekend.... my rear braking thing? i dunno i do use the fronts but.... how do i put it? i d rather have the rear come round and get unstuck then lose the front.... dirt bike riding  style kinda thing.... i tend to ease the rear on for a while before i reach for the fronts..... also find if im hot into a corner.... not super hot  but hot well i tend to use my rear to wash off speed ... pick my line and then trail the rear round the corner... helps i find to peel it in a bit tighter.... im not saying i dont use the fronts and yes i know its a 70- 30 thing front to rear .... kinda got it drummed into my head when i was younger that you never want to lose the front the back can do what it wants.... so saying i have locked the old girl up a few times and it does swing a bit    but yes. you are all correct. anyhoo i will rip the caliper off on sat and take pretty pictures . besides im blonde so grey hairs from sphincter puckering moments dont show up....

[Mark Olson]

thanks fellas... and thanks arnie will let you know im looking at it this wekend.... my rear braking thing? i dunno i do use the fronts but.... how do i put it? i d rather have the rear come round and get unstuck then lose the front.... dirt bike riding  style kinda thing.... i tend to ease the rear on for a while before i reach for the fronts..... also find if im hot into a corner.... not super hot  but hot well i tend to use my rear to wash off speed ... pick my line and then trail the rear round the corner... helps i find to peel it in a bit tighter.... im not saying i dont use the fronts and yes i know its a 70- 30 thing front to rear .... kinda got it drummed into my head when i was younger that you never want to lose the front the back can do what it wants.... so saying i have locked the old girl up a few times and it does swing a bit    but yes. you are all correct. anyhoo i will rip the caliper off on sat and take pretty pictures . besides im blonde so grey hairs from sphincter puckering moments dont show up....

If you do the brake upgrade on the fj fronts , like springs and emulators and a 17" front wheel ,blue pots and a 14mm master, then you can actually use the front brakes for more than scrubbing speed in a straight line without falling over or standing up in turn.   

I have rode tons of junk in my day  and have to say I understand the rear brake is your friend deal.   

fix the front end and you will change your religion